Subwoofer torture movies?

[yepimonfire]

What movies have you watched that really gave your sub a run for its money?

So far, all of the commonly mentioned movies haven’t made my sub even wince, the opening scene of edge of tomorrow, Thor, wotw, u571, etc.

The one movie that had me running for the volume knob due to bottoming out was 10 clover field lane, the scene where they are all hanging out in the common area and something passes overhead and massive rumbling ensues. I haven’t looked at the spectrogram of this scene yet, but it damn near destroyed my sub at its “safe volume” (-10dBfs, or a max spl 10.5’ away at the mlp of 105dB). It also knocked my bluray player off the entertainment center, hitting an LzPeak of 112dB.

Anyone have some movies to add?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Steve81]

You can check out this thread at data-bass for some ideas:
http://data-bass.ipbhost.com/topic/12-the-low-frequency-content-thread-films-games-music-etc/

 

[lovinthehd]

Try the server room scene from "Pulse"

You need to at least use the volume set to reference level for a true test

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Yeah, opening scene of "Edge of Tomorrow" scared the heck out of me.

"Interstellar" is another excellent bass movie.

 

[everettT]

Try getting Subs that demand and can deliver what your looking to achieve, just another I'm proud exercise.

 

[KEW]

So far, all of the commonly mentioned movies haven’t made my sub even wince, the opening scene of edge of tomorrow, Thor, wotw, u571, etc.

You obviously are not listening loud enough!

What do you have for subs? I forget!

 

[Pogre]

You obviously are not listening loud enough!

No kidding. My VTF-3's will absolutely break a sweat with wotw and edge of tomorrow makes them chuff a little!

 

[yepimonfire]

@KEW a Dayton sub 1500. -10dB is my usual volume level, and it’s quite loud. I’ve measured LC fast max readings of 110dB during the loudest parts of movies with all channels blaring.

@Pogre the maximum volume I can achieve from my sub from 23hz on up at 3m is 105dB. Above this volume, a knocking sound is heard. I’m not sure if it’s power limited or excursion limited. Never heard any chuffing.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

My guess is it’s bottoming out. Sorry yep, you need subs that roll off lower to really appreciate the low stuff. I’m not trying to be a jerk but I’ve had 25hz subs before, and there’s just no substitute for ones that are flat to 20 or less. The material you’re looking for won’t be represented until you have subs that can playback the material.

 

[KEW]

@KEW a Dayton sub 1500. -10dB is my usual volume level, and it’s quite loud. I’ve measured LC fast max readings of 110dB during the loudest parts of movies with all channels blaring.

I have a SUB 1200 and have been very impressed with it's design. I did play "Live, Die, Repeat" over it just for grins and giggles and it did fine, but it definitely did not put out the same amount of content as my Rythmik E15HP's will. The SUB 1500 should, of course, do better, but I suspect that a limiter is kicking in which is protecting the sub from bottoming out or otherwise exceeding its physical/mechanical limitations! That was the sense I got with the SUB1200.
This is by no means a criticism of the sub!
IMHO, the best subs designs will gracefully confront their limits without you hearing any problems. I believe most SVS, Rythmik, and PSA subs do this. Pretty certain Hsu would as well, but have never heard them!
I don't think you will be able to properly torture that sub. DIY subs are much better at this!
I'm not sure how you might verify your sub was being limited, but maybe someone will have some ideas.

 

[yepimonfire]

My guess is it’s bottoming out. Sorry yep, you need subs that roll off lower to really appreciate the low stuff. I’m not trying to be a jerk but I’ve had 25hz subs before, and there’s just no substitute for ones that are flat to 20 or less. The material you’re looking for won’t be represented until you have subs that can playback the material.

That’s my guess too.

At some point in time when I can justify it financially, I intend to replace it with a VTF 3 MK5, but for the time being, I don’t think I could do better for anything below $500.

What major difference would there be going from 25hz to 20hz? 25hz to 16hz seems like a more significant jump, especially when it come to tactile sensation.

Interestingly enough, even thx certified cinemas don’t have subs capable of going below 22hz, and many of the subs used in smaller theaters are -3dB at 31hz, so I’m not sure why so many sound engineers place infrasonic content in the lfe channel.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[yepimonfire]

I have a SUB 1200 and have been very impressed with it's design. I did play "Live, Die, Repeat" over it just for grins and giggles and it did fine, but it definitely did not put out the same amount of content as my Rythmik E15HP's will. The SUB 1500 should, of course, do better, but I suspect that a limiter is kicking in which is protecting the sub from bottoming out or otherwise exceeding its physical/mechanical limitations! That was the sense I got with the SUB1200.
This is by no means a criticism of the sub!
IMHO, the best subs designs will gracefully confront their limits without you hearing any problems. I believe most SVS, Rythmik, and PSA subs do this. Pretty certain Hsu would as well, but have never heard them!
I don't think you will be able to properly torture that sub. DIY subs are much better at this!
I'm not sure how you might verify your sub was being limited, but maybe someone will have some ideas.

There’s no limiter, it bottoms out past a certain point.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Well, I hope you can justify it soon. You’ll wonder why you waited! The mk5 looks a great buy, and a great sub. You’re right too. 25 to 16 is indeed a more significant jump, but even 20hz at 100db or more is far more tactile and gut wrenching than 25hz at the same level. What I’m sayin is, don’t underestimate 20hz performance. IMO going from 25 to 20, is more impactful than going from 20 to 16, but also keep in mind a sub that can do 16hz, should remain linear around and well above 20hz. Much more so than one with an f3 of 20hz. Obviously we’re talking about movie playback.

I think cinemas don’t employ subs capable of really deep playback for a few reasons. Cost being the first issue, since most cinemas want to invest the least amount possible, and the second is availability of systems that can do the job, which is tied to the first issue. This also leads to more soundproofing($$$) as to not disturb neighboring theaters.
IMO, the content is there for nerds like us, who care about playing it back, and have rooms that allow for it with reasonable cost. I think too, that sound engineering is an art form, and lots of them are probably home theater owners themselves and “get it”. Conversly, most movie goers are clueless as to how low the system at the local cineplex goes, and don’t care. The ones who care, will either be disappointed, or wait until they can watch at home anyway. I know many who feel the only advantage to a commercial cinema is screen size. I don’t know exactly the spec for THX commercial subs, but iirc, 115db at 20hz is one metric.

 

[yepimonfire]

Well, I hope you can justify it soon. You’ll wonder why you waited! The mk5 looks a great buy, and a great sub. You’re right too. 25 to 16 is indeed a more significant jump, but even 20hz at 100db or more is far more tactile and gut wrenching than 25hz at the same level. What I’m sayin is, don’t underestimate 20hz performance. IMO going from 25 to 20, is more impactful than going from 20 to 16, but also keep in mind a sub that can do 16hz, should remain linear around and well above 20hz. Much more so than one with an f3 of 20hz. Obviously we’re talking about movie playback.

I think cinemas don’t employ subs capable of really deep playback for a few reasons. Cost being the first issue, since most cinemas want to invest the least amount possible, and the second is availability of systems that can do the job, which is tied to the first issue. This also leads to more soundproofing($$$) as to not disturb neighboring theaters.
IMO, the content is there for nerds like us, who care about playing it back, and have rooms that allow for it with reasonable cost. I think too, that sound engineering is an art form, and lots of them are probably home theater owners themselves and “get it”. Conversly, most movie goers are clueless as to how low the system at the local cineplex goes, and don’t care. The ones who care, will either be disappointed, or wait until they can watch at home anyway. I know many who feel the only advantage to a commercial cinema is screen size. I don’t know exactly the spec for THX commercial subs, but iirc, 115db at 20hz is one metric.

My sub is only 6dB down at 20hz now, so it should hit 99dB.

Ultimately I’d love to have a sub that could truly withstand the 115dB @20Hz reference level requirements. The rest of my speakers can, it’s the sub that craps out. Perhaps a wall of vtf 3s is in order ha.

I agree about the cinema. Even with my setup now, the audio quality is just so much better than the small theater down the street, even including the bass.

In all honesty though, I’m more concerned with spl than extension, if I have to pick one. I’ve owned a sub that was flat to 20hz before, but it just didn’t have the muscle to hit high levels, 105dB of lfe is an extremely satisfying experience, even if that lfe doesn’t go much below 23hz.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

IMO, 6db down, is quite a lot.

 

[Steve81]

Ultimately I’d love to have a sub that could truly withstand the 115dB @20Hz reference level requirements. The rest of my speakers can, it’s the sub that craps out. Perhaps a wall of vtf 3s is in order ha.

FWIW, if you're using bass management, keep in mind that also raises the requirements for your subwoofer. With 5 channels of redirected bass, that can theoretically go up to 123dB, and with 7 channels, 125dB. While most soundtracks get nowhere near that worst case scenario, there are a few that come pretty close. How To Train Your Dragon for example has a scene that's a mere 1.44dB off the WCS (on the Dolby True HD 5.1 soundtrack). You can see how a few more titles rate in that regard here.

 

[yepimonfire]

FWIW, if you're using bass management, keep in mind that also raises the requirements for your subwoofer. With 5 channels of redirected bass, that can theoretically go up to 123dB, and with 7 channels, 125dB. While most soundtracks get nowhere near that worst case scenario, there are a few that come pretty close. How To Train Your Dragon for example has a scene that's a mere 1.44dB off the WCS (on the Dolby True HD 5.1 soundtrack). You can see how a few more titles rate in that regard here.

Seems to me a stack of 4-6 subs along the front wall is in order


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Pogre]

@KEW a Dayton sub 1500. -10dB is my usual volume level, and it’s quite loud. I’ve measured LC fast max readings of 110dB during the loudest parts of movies with all channels blaring.

@Pogre the maximum volume I can achieve from my sub from 23hz on up at 3m is 105dB. Above this volume, a knocking sound is heard. I’m not sure if it’s power limited or excursion limited. Never heard any chuffing.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Mine will chuff at around 10 hz if the volume is turned up. The beginning of EoT hits low enough to make 'em do that so it surprises me when you say it didn't offer much. My whole house vibrates and rattles during that scene.

 

[Pedro Alvarado]

Tron Legacy

 

[pcefrog]

the movie I use to 'show off ' is Master and Command the battle scene near the beginning of the movie... canons going off.....nice plus as the canons fire back and forth u get a good surround sound test too.