Next car?

[Irvrobinson]

There's been something itching my sense of decorum about this thread. I think y'all must have a different sense of "fun to drive" from me. Tight cornering, fast launch times, and other such performance metrics tend to signal unsafe driving and waste of gas to me. Maybe I'm just aging faster than you guys, but when I see people slaloming through traffic or straightening curves on country roads without allowing time for the unexpected, "He must be having fun" is the last thing I think. Instead, I usually think, "He must have to poop really bad." For me, prodigious ability to merge into Interstate traffic is fast enough, and if I can do that at over 20MPG fuel economy I'm happy. I really think BSA ought to test drive the Acura MDX. Maybe it's not as sporty as some of the other recommendations; but it is refined, reliable, living room recliner comfortable, has enough decadent luxury features to let you know you aren't settling, and is no slouch in its performance. Irv's disapproval notwithstanding, there's a reason it comes highly recommended by many of his colleagues.

You totally don't get it. This has nothing to do with driving like you're in a Fast and Furious movie, this has to do with control feel and responsiveness in normal driving. The reason the Acuras come so highly recommended from some of my colleagues is that to them a vehicle is just another appliance or status symbol, and the dealers have far and away the best service at that price point. No arrogant smugness like the German dealers have (especially BMW). They are the equivalent target market for Bose and B&O. Along with rental Subaru Foresters, "you've got to try this out rides" in Lexus and Acura SUVs is why I keep my 12-year-old X3 around as a daily driver in the Bay Area. (Where the roads are so horrible a capable SUV is the appropriate vehicle.)

If you think the MDX feels as good as a BMW, I'm happy for you. You don't have to put up with BMW dealers.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Whatever, but if you think for one moment that what you buy in this country has no design and or engineering influence here you are only kidding yourself !

So true. Many Japanese cars are styled on the West Coast. I'd like to meet the guy that drew up the latest Honda Civic concept, and ask him what he was thinking.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Whatever, but if you think for one moment that what you buy in this country has no design and or engineering influence here you are only kidding yourself !

Outbacks are made in USA. I think that you are not wrong to assume that it was designed and engineered towards mainly USA buyers. Still actual engineering is Japanese. This is what helps it to achieve higher than typical reliability.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

There's been something itching my sense of decorum about this thread. I think y'all must have a different sense of "fun to drive" from me. Tight cornering, fast launch times, and other such performance metrics tend to signal unsafe driving and waste of gas to me. Maybe I'm just aging faster than you guys, but when I see people slaloming through traffic or straightening curves on country roads without allowing time for the unexpected, "He must be having fun" is the last thing I think. Instead, I usually think, "He must have to poop really bad." For me, prodigious ability to merge into Interstate traffic is fast enough, and if I can do that at over 20MPG fuel economy I'm happy. I really think BSA ought to test drive the Acura MDX. Maybe it's not as sporty as some of the other recommendations; but it is refined, reliable, living room recliner comfortable, has enough decadent luxury features to let you know you aren't settling, and is no slouch in its performance. Irv's disapproval notwithstanding, there's a reason it comes highly recommended by many of his colleagues.

I'm not sure what luxury SUV manufacturers offer Android Auto. Seems like I saw it on Mitsubishi's website, but I'm pretty sure those offerings have shortcomings in other areas. Edit: Ah, there's a list.

I'm struggling to understand the appeal of Android Auto as well. I'm sure it's lovely, but it doesn't seem to offer much that an OEM headunit doesn't at first glance -- at least not enough that it would be a deal breaker if all other goals were met. Is it just for the better nav to be displayed in-dash? Does it allow turn-by-turn directions over Bluetooth to break into the FM radio, CD, or USB audio sources? Because that's something I sorely wish my Tacoma headunit would do.

Fun to drive for means making sharp corners at higher speeds without huge body roll, ie feeling like car about to flip on side. Meeting intersate traffic with lots of traffic moving at speed limit is what I consider is barely adequate with my current 3.6 outback. Ideally I'd love someone with a bit more reserve. Same line thinking as shopping for amp with much more power than you would need 97% of time.
Finally Android auto allows basically mirror your phone screen in special app to your main car screen and integration with car sensors . This basically gives you Google maps and navigation on your car. It's typically much better than your car manufacturer provides as over priced option.

 

[Mikado463]

Still actual engineering is Japanese. This is what helps it to achieve higher than typical reliability.

Do you have any idea how many miles the avg Subaru goes before the start of head gasket failure ?

You like performance ? name me one Asian car that can be had new for under 50k that will run with a Camaro SS 1le , I know of none.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Over 200k miles easily and 2017 Nissan 370Z NISMO and Subaru WRX sti is not far behind and will likely overtake Camaro on windy roads or track with lots of sharp turns.

 

[Mikado463]

Over 200k miles easily and 2017 Nissan 370Z NISMO

wrong and I doubt it.

look the lap times up on any track that they have both run on.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

wrong and I doubt it.

look the lap times up on any track that they have both run on.

Not that I care about sports cars, but since this is your argument, the burden of providing evidence supporting your point of view is on you. I'm on the beach right now, enjoy last of warm days

 

[Mikado463]

BSA, my rebuttal was in reference to your remark about American engineering.
In the world of performance for the dollar it's pretty much a given that nothing compares to Camaro, Mustang and Corvette.

As for Subaru, I love, the wife is on her third (2010 Forester), 89,000 miles and yes the head gaskets are starting to weep. Her other two started under 100k miles as well. Other than that zero complaints. Kudos to their (and Audi's) AWD, some of if not the best out there IMO.

Oh, by all means enjoy the great start to fall and the beach weather you're able to enjoy !

 

[Irvrobinson]

Not that I care about sports cars, but since this is your argument, the burden of providing evidence supporting your point of view is on you. I'm on the beach right now, enjoy last of warm days

While I'm not taking sides on this, but in terms of performance per dollar Mikado has a point:

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/lightning-lap-2017-every-lap-time-and-full-data-feature

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/lightning-lap-2016-results-historical-lap-times-and-more-feature

 

[Mikado463]

Thanks for posting Irv, VO Manhattan's and dinner got in the way !

Anyways, the numbers speak for them selves. Remember this boy and girls .......Chevy still has not released a current 'Z28', rumors abound that it will exceed the ZL1/1LE in track performance and with the new Corvette ZR-1 and the mid-engine 'Zora' on the way ..........yeah American engineering really sucks ! Oh and if you think we can't compete in the world of exotics, just try telling that to the Ford GT folks !

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

While I'm not taking sides on this, but in terms of performance per dollar Mikado has a point:

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/lightning-lap-2017-every-lap-time-and-full-data-feature

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/lightning-lap-2016-results-historical-lap-times-and-more-feature

Could not find apples to apples on your links, but truth to told after looking more closely I found this: http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/le-mans-bugatti
Regular Camaro SS beats 370z nismo.
Honestly only surprise for me on that list is BMW m2 result. It's a seriously fast car.
Price in US is a bit over 50k.

Ok, Mikado. Let's say I for a moment that fuel economy nor reliability matters, if so what American brand car would you recommend me at about 40k budget. It needs to be quicker than 7.1s 0-60. Have same or better technology level as outback 2018 touring. Be about same size inside.
It needs to haul upto 5 adults with crap load of groceries (about 30cuft cargo volume or more). Go fast on road and don't get stuck in deep snow.

 

[Irvrobinson]

It needs to haul upto 5 adults with crap load of groceries (about 30cuft cargo volume or more). Go fast on road and don't get stuck in deep snow.

Cadillac XT5.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Believe it or not. it's already was on my short list. Need to take a closer look at it

 

[Irvrobinson]

Believe it or not. it's already was on my short list. Need to take a closer look at it

The thud you just felt was me falling out of my desk chair over 2500 miles away...

 

[NINaudio]

I'm struggling to understand the appeal of Android Auto as well. I'm sure it's lovely, but it doesn't seem to offer much that an OEM headunit doesn't at first glance -- at least not enough that it would be a deal breaker if all other goals were met. Is it just for the better nav to be displayed in-dash? Does it allow turn-by-turn directions over Bluetooth to break into the FM radio, CD, or USB audio sources? Because that's something I sorely wish my Tacoma headunit would do.

The appeal is having the ability to use the GPS that is already in your phone and having it mirrored on the in dash screen. I have it in my car and I love it. Couldn't stand not having it in my rentals recently. You can use your phone's GPS, pandora, spotify, etc. It also allows you to use google voice recognition to make/receive phone calls and input other commands.

 

[Mikado463]

Cadillac XT5.

agreed, but the 40k budget may need a little stretching ! As for the deep snow comment, none of them will run in deep snow.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

agreed, but the 40k budget may need a little stretching ! As for the deep snow comment, none of them will run in deep snow.

Let me redefine deep. I'm Not talking Japan level deep snow:

Think of 2-3 feet of snow at most.
As for XT5, Agreed. It's much more pricey it seems. Comparable features set to outback, XT5 only stands out with few: Auto Park Assist (nice toy, could live without it, but it included in trim which includes more import active safety tech) and Ventilated driver and front passenger seats - These are very welcome and would be $1.5k extra option on the Q5. No available on Subarus.
Other than these features and going 0-60 at 6.5 vs outback's 7.1 it pretty much on par. A bit larger passenger volume 111 cu ft vs 105 cuft and a bit smaller cargo, 30/63 vs 35.5/73.3.
One could argue finish and fit are better on XT5. Ride quality and handling I'd have to see for myself.
But the killer is the price - at these features and everything else Outback 3.6 Touring included, it's MSRP is almost 58k !!! 18k over Outback. That's not a pocket change.
This is something I've worked on today, basically most of features and specs I give mainly poop about:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vTPMa99XRFCHT26P5Z0VbnK7G-p-byHG8JPGsXFYrNQgZkVyRiHx_rSqhGdjvkqH3lmwmg1I3QSzWJB/pubhtml
So pretty much back to my question at post #72
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/next-car.109099/page-4#post-1212251

To be honest right now it's between Q5 and Outback. Mazda is very affordable and roomy, but slower and missing some important (not critical, not noice to have) features.
Infiniti QX50 is fast, but absolutely show stopper with a tiny cargo space (compared to others)
Highlander Hybrid is somewhat fuel efficient, roomy and nice, but also not particularly fast or cheap.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Yes, but only on paper so far. It does seem very dynamic and attractive car as well as well priced, but I doubt it's practicality and reliability. But Mr I love any Alfa, Jeremy Clarkson, very much unsurprisingly liked even though he's been driving slower (0-62mph in 6.6) diesel version
https://www.driving.co.uk/car-reviews/clarkson-review-2017-alfa-romeo-stelvio/

Have Alfa compared to other options here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vTPMa99XRFCHT26P5Z0VbnK7G-p-byHG8JPGsXFYrNQgZkVyRiHx_rSqhGdjvkqH3lmwmg1I3QSzWJB/pubhtml

I do like A LOT 5.4 (claimed by mfg) 0-60 and price is decent at 46k. Only issue is tiny cargo and tight interior space. Tiny cargo maybe the end of it unfortunately. I find myself often filling up Outback's cargo with large weekend shopping. I could probably deal with lowering rear seats more often, but not sure it's worth the hassle. Oh Choices!

 

[Mikado463]

ahhhh, the snow, reminds me of the fourth of July back home in Buffalo !

As for the 2-3 feet, no Subaru, or very few 'stock' vehicles we know of will go through that much snow, just not enough ground clearance.

As for the Outback, my buddies wife just got a '17, really nice ride and I agree, not sure the big price jump to the Caddy is worth it. Myself though, I still like the ride ht of the Traverse / Caddy platform, but then I drove p/u trucks for thirty plus years as my daily driver before going with the Traverse.