Graphs from REW

[Mitchibo]

 

[agarwalro]

@agarwalro I like your style, and appreciate the effort for actual discussion. But I think at this point there is little discussion to be had, and I've done a great job of backing myself in to a corner. So I'll keep working in order to demonstrate with pictures, how to correlate predictions to acoustic measurements. I thought it was a simple concept, that was easy to share. So hopefully you and others will be able to literally see, with pictures, what I am talking about, and how it might offer you a better solution.

You too have remained civil. Its kept this thread from completely devolving into name calling or singing matches. Thank you. I look forward to your work. I suggest starting a new thread in the Acoustics, Layout and Setup section.

Oh man, I've plugging more numbers into spreadsheets and websites that gave modal analysis than I care for. Not having an audio engineering background, there were many times I felt lost and dejected. And, that was when my system was in a cuboidal room.

Since then, my setup has moved four times and none have been remotely cuboidal spaces. Thanks to the osmosis of knowledge through hours spent on AH, selective education and REW, a lot of frustration has been removed. I still used the modal analysis tools after taking a measurement or two. This is primarily because my last four setups did not accord much flexibility in placement of speakers or seats. So, the modal analysis was done to understand which issues needed too be ignored and those on which to focus my efforts.

 

[ATLAudio]

Show don't tell. I get it and agree, and I'll get all those purdy measurements for you guys as soon as I can. Thought it would be easier to show you on your own rooms. That's truly all I've been getting at.

@William Lemmerhirt First, you need to predict your modes. Then, you need to know which ones are actually affecting your listening position with acoustic measurements. Once you've ensured levels and delays are set for all subs (after placement of course), you would then use EQ to cancel out your room modes. I've got an open living room myself, and was only limited by the 2 channels of DSP built in to my subs. Still predicted 15 modes, I think.

And that's where I've been the most vocal. The 'guesswork' that's gone in to the DSP. Room modes don't have to measure as peaks, you can be out of phase with that frequency at the listening position and simply not hear it. My mistake in telling and not showing, was that it wasn't seen by anyone, that correcting the actual modes smooths the response on it's own. My other mistake was in thinking that I could simplify an incredibly complex subject, for the masses.

@agarwalro I like your style, and appreciate the effort for actual discussion. But I think at this point there is little discussion to be had, and I've done a great job of backing myself in to a corner. So I'll keep working in order to demonstrate with pictures, how to correlate predictions to acoustic measurements. I thought it was a simple concept, that was easy to share. So hopefully you and others will be able to literally see, with pictures, what I am talking about, and how it might offer you a better solution.

@ATLAudio You've been the most vocal, and by far the only off-putting member, considering how much time I've spent with you. You called me up while I was on vacation and asked how to program a 2x4. I got your room dimensions from you and gave you the predicted modes, and I think, the DSP filters. Never saw a FR graph, or heard comments on the effectiveness. Nothing. But here you are in every thread where I advocate this procedure, slamming it. So if you want to share the progress, and what inputs you've made, then lets discuss. But you're not making me want to cook you and your family ribs again, any time soon.

“You've been the most vocal, and by far the only off-putting member, considering how much time I've spent with you.”

After being called a liar, and routinely condescended to during this time, I’m not sure how much I care. That said, I KNOW you’d give someone the shirt off your back if they needed it, you’re a great guy, but you don’t know when to quit, man! We’re both novices in this hobby, but you can’t admit it. Study more than one source! Take advice from other’s who have more thoroughly studied Toole. It’s academically healthy! By not doing this and other stuff, yes you have painted yourself into a corner! It’s no fun! I’ve been there man! We all have!

“You called me up while I was on vacation and asked how to program a 2x4. I got your room dimensions from you and gave you the predicted modes, and I think, the DSP filters.”

To be clear, I called you up to bullschit, and in the course of that conversation you were discussing how to do this procedure, and I volunteered measurements for you, and you provided DSP filters. I already had a pretty good hand on programing the 2x4.

“Never saw an FR graph, or heard comments on the effectiveness. Nothing.”

This is false, moreover, I’m reminded of several assumptions you made about what I did do which were wrong. I found other tools which proved more effective for the task, I just didn’t think it was a big deal.

“But here you are in every thread where I advocate this procedure, slamming it.”

Dude, let’s be honest, clearly I’m not the only one!

“So if you want to share the progress, and what inputs you've made, then lets discuss.”

Alex, that’s not how it works. You don’t slam people’s work or ideas, call them liars and condescend to them about what you think you know and expect them to share much. I am uncomfortable that if I shared anything with you, at best you’d just work backward to criticize it in some inane way based on your demonstrated limited understanding of REW and or Toole’s book. In fact, you’ve already done this in responding to others, so I’m at a stalemate here!

 

[Pogre]

No, Warrior is referring you to the book to better understand the cause of your audio aberrations. He's just more vocal and persistent than most would care to be.

Warrior, I and this discussion started in a different thread. He did tell me that he assumes my system sounds like crap because I don't know what I'm doing. He's never heard my system.

 

[Pogre]

I have a 25 page thread, with a lot of discussion and ideas being tossed around detailing what, how, mistakes made, successes, remeasuring, repositioning subs/speakers and using rew/Umik to help me obtain measurements. When I finally got the results I was looking for, all of my work got crapped on in that thread.

 

[agarwalro]

Well fiddlesticks.

I've even forgotten where this thread went off track.

Quick, someone post a few REW plots and bring us back to the OP's reason for starting the thread.

 

[Pogre]

To use Audyssey and rew together to help with bass response. Same as my thread. Mitch just had some more questions and started his own thread. The interjection was when he was told basically what I was told (more nicely than the way it was put to me). Our methods are crap, we need to do what he interprets from the book.

 

[Pogre]

Well fiddlesticks.

I've even forgotten where this thread went off track.

Quick, someone post a few REW plots and bring us back to the OP's reason for starting the thread.

He had some questions about the graphs he was generating.

 

[ATLAudio]

Well fiddlesticks.

I've even forgotten where this thread went off track.

Quick, someone post a few REW plots and bring us back to the OP's reason for starting the thread.

Here's my response across my front sofa. Green line being my MLP.

 

[agarwalro]

View attachment 22386
Here's my response across my front sofa. Green line being my MLP.

Smoother than George Clooney after a great shave!

 

[Mitchibo]

View attachment 22386
Here's my response across my front sofa. Green line being my MLP.

Good Lord, man! Did you just do that with some crayons?

 

[Mitchibo]

Though I love being a snarky jackass...about now, on Friday night, it’s time to crack open a brew or something stronger, laugh out loud, put in movie or a good disc, sit back and enjoy our own achievements with our own systems. Cheers to us weirdos.

 

[ATLAudio]

Good Lord, man! Did you just do that with some crayons?

No, MS Paint... lol

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

@Mitchibo, I got the memo!

 

[Mitchibo]

@Mitchibo, I got the memo!

That’s what I’m talking about!

 

[Pogre]

Here's where I'm at right now.

Gene posted another method I haven't tried yet in my thread that I might tackle this weekend.

This is one of many sets of sweeps I did while I was collecting data and calibrating. This one shows me that a higher crossover definitely gives me a better response. I didn't use smoothing on any of my measurements either. I wanted it all. The good, the bad and the ugly.

 

[Pogre]

Though I love being a snarky jackass...about now, on Friday night, it’s time to crack open a brew or something stronger, laugh out loud, put in movie or a good disc, sit back and enjoy our own achievements with our own systems. Cheers to us weirdos.

I just realized something... I'm going to start having weekends off. I'm so glad I quit my old job.

 

[Pogre]

No, MS Paint... lol

Wait, seriously?

 

[Mitchibo]

I just realized something... I'm going to start having weekends off. I'm so glad I quit my old job.

Interesting graph. How did you compile a x-over graph? I’m used to the standard spl info. Audyssey always sets the XO really low on my mains and side speakers. While it’s hard to hear any degradation in the smaller speakers, it’s pretty clear in the mains vs subs. I don’t know why it calibrates the surround, height, sides, between 40-60? They don’t reach that far anyway.

 

[Pogre]

Interesting graph. How did you compile a x-over graph? I’m used to the standard spl info. Audyssey always sets the XO really low on my mains and side speakers. While it’s hard to hear any degradation in the smaller speakers, it’s pretty clear in the mains vs subs. I don’t know why it calibrates the surround, height, sides, between 40-60? They don’t reach that far anyway.

They're just individual sweeps at each crossover I tried. I labeled them below the graph. You can see which is which.