Incorporating MiniDSP With Audyssey XT32

[William Lemmerhirt]

I have the 809 and didn't have that issue that I recall. Mine only has XT though. Not sure if yours is XT32 or not.

Nope. Just XT. I've also considered a factory reset. Not likely to work but you never know I guess. I do mostly like the way it handles the bass, but the surround thing kinda pisses me off a little. I really want to like it! Lol

 

[PENG]

Nope. Just XT. I've also considered a factory reset. Not likely to work but you never know I guess. I do mostly like the way it handles the bass, but the surround thing kinda pisses me off a little. I really want to like it! Lol

For D&M model, you can select different offset values for each input, can you do the same with your 809?

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

For D&M model, you can select different offset values for each input, can you do the same with your 809?

Yessir, it does have the offsets available. They're supposed to be selected by whatever source you're using. So far, since I watch a lot of satellite tv I've found that even different stations and how they broadcast certain shows and even commercials really changes how deq does it's job. The jury is out but so far I'm ok(not sold yet) with deq, in stereo mode for music. Deq for BD needs more evaluation, but for tv, I think not. I don't mind turning it off and on for different programs, but I'm not willing to dig into the menu to change the offset every time the satellite switches from Dolby digital to stereo etc.

 

[PENG]

Yessir, it does have the offsets available. They're supposed to be selected by whatever source you're using. So far, since I watch a lot of satellite tv I've found that even different stations and how they broadcast certain shows and even commercials really changes how deq does it's job. The jury is out but so far I'm ok(not sold yet) with deq, in stereo mode for music. Deq for BD needs more evaluation, but for tv, I think not. I don't mind turning it off and on for different programs, but I'm not willing to dig into the menu to change the offset every time the satellite switches from Dolby digital to stereo etc.

Then I guess you will have to listen at near reference level, or try the Yamaha's version of DEQ.

 

[panteragstk]

Yessir, it does have the offsets available. They're supposed to be selected by whatever source you're using. So far, since I watch a lot of satellite tv I've found that even different stations and how they broadcast certain shows and even commercials really changes how deq does it's job. The jury is out but so far I'm ok(not sold yet) with deq, in stereo mode for music. Deq for BD needs more evaluation, but for tv, I think not. I don't mind turning it off and on for different programs, but I'm not willing to dig into the menu to change the offset every time the satellite switches from Dolby digital to stereo etc.

That explains a lot. A TON of broadcast shows over-emphasize the surround channels on shows that I'm not sure even need them. I've noticed this quite a bit watching TV. It's distracting sometimes.

Try DEQ when watching a movie at lower volume and see if you like it more. I use it for that when people say "it's too loud" and was happy with the results.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

That explains a lot. A TON of broadcast shows over-emphasize the surround channels on shows that I'm not sure even need them. I've noticed this quite a bit watching TV. It's distracting sometimes.

Try DEQ when watching a movie at lower volume and see if you like it more. I use it for that when people say "it's too loud" and was happy with the results.

I agree. Over the years I've tried it here and there, and found deq to be better for me on BD but still need to spend more time with that. Yes, distracting is right. On certain programs it's much worse than others, and I haven't found the right balance. With deq anyway.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Then I guess you will have to listen at near reference level, or try the Yamaha's version of DEQ.

Lol! I don't mind reference level, but the rest of my family sees it differently.
Nobody is holding a gun to my head to make deq work, so if I just can't get where I want, I'll go back to my house curve and wait until I upgrade my avr and try again.

 

[KEW]

Yessir, it does have the offsets available. They're supposed to be selected by whatever source you're using. So far, since I watch a lot of satellite tv I've found that even different stations and how they broadcast certain shows and even commercials really changes how deq does it's job. The jury is out but so far I'm ok(not sold yet) with deq, in stereo mode for music. Deq for BD needs more evaluation, but for tv, I think not. I don't mind turning it off and on for different programs, but I'm not willing to dig into the menu to change the offset every time the satellite switches from Dolby digital to stereo etc.

See if you can run your satellite feed through your BD player. My Oppo has two HDMI outputs, so I can run them both to my AVR and call them different sources (though they are actually the same). After that I can use the input-specific settings to quickly/easily switch between two settings.
Alternately, you can use one of these between your satellite box and the AVR to do the same thing:
https://www.amazon.com/HDMI-Splitter-out-Splitters-Support/dp/B06ZYJKS3F/ref=sr_1_3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1505839696&sr=1-3&keywords=hdmi+splitter+1+in+3+out

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

See if you can run your satellite feed through your BD player. My Oppo has two HDMI outputs, so I can run them both to my AVR and call them different sources (though they are actually the same). After that I can use the input-specific settings to quickly/easily switch between two settings.
Alternately, you can use one of these between your satellite box and the AVR to do the same thing:
https://www.amazon.com/HDMI-Splitter-out-Splitters-Support/dp/B06ZYJKS3F/ref=sr_1_3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1505839696&sr=1-3&keywords=hdmi+splitter+1+in+3+out

Good idea. My PS3 won't do it but that switcher looks interesting. Thx Kurt.

 

[gene]

I have been experimenting with direct, pure direct and l/r bypass on Audyssey a lot lately. I like some things about direct or bypass and I also like things that Audyssey does. I can't seem to get the best of both at the same time tho.

When I'm in direct mode I get more of that mid bass that kicks you in the chest from my towers, which I like, but the rest just doesn't sound as good to me as having Audyssey enabled. Basically, I like Audyssey's room correction, but it makes my towers sound anemic in the bass department. Even at full range. If I turn the subs off and set the towers to full range my low end just disappears.

In direct mode there's actually too much bass (no sub, just towers). It gets a little muddy and a lot boomy. Plugging the ports on the towers tames it down and I still get that punch. I tried l/r bypass in the Audyssey settings and set the crossover at 40hz and it sounded pretty good. The Hsu's were giving me the extension in the lower octaves and the towers give me the punch in the middle, but the upper frequencies were muddy. I prefer Audyssey's room correction on the upper frequencies over direct.

I prefer Audyssey's eq settings when I'm running the subs with the towers, but I feel like the towers have more to add from what I hear in direct mode and I don't know how to get it dialed in. I do still have that unopened 2x4 MiniDSP HD... Is this a case of me preferring a hump in the mid-lower range that would not measure flat or do I need to just stfu and be happy with what I have?

If the editor app worked like it was supposed to, this could even be something fun for me to experiment with.

*Edit: I've tried turning dynamic eq on and off with all of the different modes I experimented with. Turning it on in l/r bypass made the bass explode when I didn't plug the ports. It was quite impressive actually. I believe SVS when they claim these towers dig down into the upper 20's, no problem.

While I have little time to read this whole thread, I thought I'd chime in based on experience with mating bass capable towers with external powered subs and dealing with EQ and room correction.

The BEST approach for setup is to run ALL subs as a mono sum of LFE + bass managed speakers set small. You can biamp your SVS towers and use their bottom drivers as subs to accomplish this. Use the mDSP box and connect 2 sub outs from your processor and feed all 4 subs EQ'ed and time alinged. Skip Audyssey all together and fine tune with mDSP and REW with a mic.

Follow our guidelines here:
http://www.audioholics.com/home-theater-calibration/bass-optimization-for-home-theater

 

[PENG]

While I have little time to read this whole thread, I thought I'd chime in based on experience with mating bass capable towers with external powered subs and dealing with EQ and room correction.

The BEST approach for setup is to run ALL subs as a mono sum of LFE + bass managed speakers set small. You can biamp your SVS towers and use their bottom drivers as subs to accomplish this. Use the mDSP box and connect 2 sub outs from your processor and feed all 4 subs EQ'ed and time alinged. Skip Audyssey all together and fine tune with mDSP and REW with a mic.

Follow our guidelines here:
http://www.audioholics.com/home-theater-calibration/bass-optimization-for-home-theater

I think that is an excellent idea and thank you for the very nicely done guideline. Depending on one's speaker configuration that determines how many I/Os are needed for best performance, it can be a costly solution, relatively speaking. For now, I am getting very reasonable with Audyssey as verified by the REW plots for the 7Ch stereo mode, so I decided to leave it alone for now and use the mdsp 2XHD in my stereo only system instead.

 

[PENG]

@Pogre, @ATLAudio, I think I am doing okay using the 2XHD in the LS50 stereo only system except I still don't like the dips at 89 Hz and 189 Hz. I am thinking of bumping up my sub by say 3dB because there should be no issue with cutting, just shouldn't boost more than 3 to 6dB. Before I spent hours on this again, would like to hear from you as I know you guys are much experience with the minidsp than I.

In the graphs (no smoothing) below, black is LS50s only, Blue is E15HP only and red is the combined effect with XO applied in the mini. I have already tried sub crawling (could only do it to very limited extent), moving the LS50 a few inches, varying the phase on the sub, tried different filter types, and played with the XOs with the mini, and could not get rid of the dips. So it seems to me cranking the sub's volume up a couple notches may be my only hope now.

I realize I am no longer using the mini in my HT with Audyssey so if Pogre wants me to post this in a new thread just let me know.

 

[Pogre]

While I have little time to read this whole thread, I thought I'd chime in based on experience with mating bass capable towers with external powered subs and dealing with EQ and room correction.

The BEST approach for setup is to run ALL subs as a mono sum of LFE + bass managed speakers set small. You can biamp your SVS towers and use their bottom drivers as subs to accomplish this. Use the mDSP box and connect 2 sub outs from your processor and feed all 4 subs EQ'ed and time alinged. Skip Audyssey all together and fine tune with mDSP and REW with a mic.

Follow our guidelines here:
http://www.audioholics.com/home-theater-calibration/bass-optimization-for-home-theater

Hey Gene, I'm pretty sure buried in the back pages here somewhere we did discuss that briefly. Did not come to a conclusion though. I'm taking classes all this week and they're out of town so I'm not going to have much time for the forums, but I'm eager to try this out. I'll probably be playing around with stuff this weekend.

 

[Pogre]

I don't know if I'm struggling with the terminology or if I'm just straight up having comprehension issues. Global eq vs individual eq, I think I understand. By bi amping I'm treating the sub sections of my towers as additional subwoofers, so those will be summed as one via rca splitter and connected to one of my sub channels? Would I eq those as 1, the eq the subwoofers as one, then do it globally? When you say a mono, that means a test tone in rew using lfe channels only?

"Note: Measure all subs + main L/R speakers in mono from 10Hz to 200Hz for each seat.
5. Once you've got all of your subs properly integrated, use EQ to flatten peaks and boost sparingly (never more than +6dB) to fix dips. If boosting doesn't fix a dip, don't do it!
Note: Since this is a manual process, I initially applied a small amount of EQ to each sub individually to optimize the response as best as possible. Then, I applied global EQ to really fine tune and flatten the overall response for ALL seats."

 

[Pogre]

This is my thought process at this point. I could use all 4 outputs of the mini and eq the towers together, then the subs together, then all of them globally.

Or, I could get a couple of splitters, use only 2 outputs on the mini, sum the sub sections of my towers as 1 channel, then sum my subwoofers as the other channel. A little bit of eq for each channel individually, then globally. This seems like it would be easier, but I dont have splitters handy to experiment with. My local Best Buy didn't have any either. The clerk didn't even know what I was talking about!

Or should I be using all 4 outputs for this?

Any suggestions on which way to go here? Am I about to create a frequency frankenstein?

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I think the answer is yes. Frankenstein. From what I remember, equalizing frequencies above the subwoofer range should be done, A) very sparingly, B) by someone who has a lot of experience. I believe EQ functions by phasing techniques and can really mess up SS&I. I would personally leave the above 200 range to Audyssey, and stick with minidsp/REW for subs. A can of worms I feel is about to be opened.

 

[Pogre]

I think the answer is yes. Frankenstein. From what I remember, equalizing frequencies above the subwoofer range should be done, A) very sparingly, B) by someone who has a lot of experience. I believe EQ functions by phasing techniques and can really mess up SS&I. I would personally leave the above 200 range to Audyssey, and stick with minidsp/REW for subs. A can of worms I feel is about to be opened.

What has me wanting to try it is the idea of bi amping my towers and using lfe out for the bottom of the towers and L/R out to the top section of the towers. It'd be almost like having 4 subs. I'd only be adjusting from 200 down. I read the low pass for the 8" woofs is 160hz.

*Edit: "Franquency".

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

What has me wanting to try it is the idea of bi amping my towers and using lfe out for the bottom of the towers and L/R out to the top section of the towers. It'd be almost like having 4 subs. I'd only be adjusting from 200 down. I read the low pass for the 8" woofs is 160hz.

*Edit: "Franquency".

I’m not 100% sure I follow so keep that in mind when I say this. I would not feel comfortable sending an LFE(3-120hz) signal to those drivers. They’re not real sub drivers and I am going to say at the very least, proceed with great caution. However, if I don’t follow what it is your doing, hopefully someone will advise you properly, and I will piss off!
Edit: Franquency! That’s good!

 

[KEW]

I think the answer is yes. Frankenstein. From what I remember, equalizing frequencies above the subwoofer range should be done, A) very sparingly, B) by someone who has a lot of experience. I believe EQ functions by phasing techniques and can really mess up SS&I. I would personally leave the above 200 range to Audyssey, and stick with minidsp/REW for subs. A can of worms I feel is about to be opened.

I was under the impression that the old analog parametric equalizers could be a disaster if you did not use them sparingly, but thought that adjustments in the digital domain were free of such artifacts as the phasing issue you mention, but I'm really talking above my knowledge level to make such a statement as fact.

 

[KEW]

Jason, if you do not hear much conclusive here, you might see if you can get a hold of Ed Mullen at SVS, I think he has a pretty good understanding of the issues at play.
Ultimately, it may be that there is no hard rule of thumb and it depends on your particular room/setup which would work best. Who knows? Not me!