Incorporating MiniDSP With Audyssey XT32

[Pogre]

I understand the waterfall and spectrum plots now!

"Waterfall and Spectrogram plot graphs are derived from previous measurements. These plots are both different ways of representing the amount of energy storage or decay rate in the systems. Resonances, ringing or other issues will show up with a long and slow decay rate. Look for frequencies that seem to hang around longer than the rest and seem to not want to decay away. For Waterfall graphs look for a response that drops off rapidly and cleanly by 25 to 30dB within the first 100ms. Unless there is a very obvious issue with ringing in a particular frequency band there is not usually anything of particular sonic consequence in these graphs. As with the group delay chart most of the energy storage will occur below 30Hz where it is not of much concern. Pay much more attention to issues higher up in frequency as they become much more audible than they are in the depest bass."

Seriously, I had no idea what I was looking at. The 3d chart and colored splooshes were confusing to me. All I needed was a simple explanation of what to look for.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

ok here's all 3 subs. individually, and together. Audyssey off.

Both front subs are 16' equidistant from the Lp. The room is vaulted with a rise to the right(that slopes down again across the kitchen) which is 12' compared to 9' on the left side. After my last try, I ran audyssey and it set the subs at 20' which is farther than ever, but must be due to processing the signal. So, per ATL's suggestion, i'm going to add some delay to the most effected sub which seems to be the left sub. I'm gonna keep going with this until my wife swats me with this laptop....

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

ok. so I started adding delay value(I think that's what it is) by increments of 5. as you can see(not paying attention to the spaghetti) the dip around 18.63hz rises. What I did know, but not to what extent, this was going to effect the upper regions. Some adjustments affected the upper ranges greatly, and sometimes not so much. the last value I settled on was 28. This seemed to offer the least improvement, so I presume it will not get better. So, now what does that mean? it says "delay in ms"[distance = 963cm[28x34.4] Does that mean I told it my right sub is at 31' away? A little confused...

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

ok. i'm a bonehead. So instead of the delay in the minidsp, it hit me like DUH, try the phase control on the left sub. in my little brain, this made sense since the ceiling above the left is 9' high, and the ceiling above the right sub is 12'(which is the midpoint of the entire LR/kitchen) a little delay on the left side might "square up" the timing. So...I'm done for the day. This is where I ended up... First one deq off. second one deq on. just noticed my scale is off. ugh. done...

 

[PENG]

I may have scrapped all those in haste this morning, but yes, it was still there. I will have to reset up. Maybe this weekend I'll get a chance. Fwiw, I did add some delay to one of the front subs(dualpc12+) but maybe not enough? I ran a sweep after, and it looked identical so I set it back where it was. The front subs are 16' from LP. They flank my mains and are slightly behind them. The 3rd is a Polk psw505(long story) that I use an mbm and runs from 30-60hz. Removing that doesn't change the suck out at 18 since it doesn't operate there. I did try though. I do appreciate any insight.

I also tried playing with the distance last night, up to 12 inches (a couple inches per step) either way and got worse results so I had to put them back too. It seems like XT32 did nail that part right. Today I may find time to start from scratch with the mini.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I also tried playing with the distance last night, up to 12 inches (a couple inches per step) either way and got worse results so I had to put them back too. It seems like XT32 did nail that part right. Today I may find time to start from scratch with the mini.

I forgot to add, I don't have XT32,(just XT) but moving the phase knob on the individual subwoofer still works. I won't have time to measure/adjust anything but didn't get to try any content last night so I will do that today. Obviously I've got some work to do.

 

[Pogre]

I know incorporating the mini changed what Audyssey chose for distance, like a lot.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I know incorporating the mini changed what Audyssey chose for distance, like a lot.

I think the consensus was due to the processing of the signal. Right? It makes sense anyway. I like that I got rid of my 18hz hole, but I'm not sure how it effected everything else. It doesn't look horrible but it's also not the whole picture.

 

[Pogre]

I think the consensus was due to the processing of the signal. Right? It makes sense anyway. I like that I got rid of my 18hz hole, but I'm not sure how it effected everything else. It doesn't look horrible but it's also not the whole picture.

I don't know if we ever came to a consensus on that. I actually bumped mine back another 2 feet and I *think* it sounds better. Haven't had the stuff out to measure it yet.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I don't know if we ever came to a consensus on that. I actually bumped mine back another 2 feet and I *think* it sounds better. Haven't had the stuff out to measure it yet.

What were yours at before Audyssey moved them back? Mine went from 16 to 20 iirc. I've had mixed results but mostly adding feet shortens the delay and IME that has helped. I've also had to do that to smooth over the XO region.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I don't know if we ever came to a consensus on that. I actually bumped mine back another 2 feet and I *think* it sounds better. Haven't had the stuff out to measure it yet.

What were yours at before Audyssey moved them back? Mine went from 16 to 20 iirc. I've had mixed results but mostly adding feet shortens the delay and IME that has helped. I've also had to do that to smooth over the XO region.

 

[Pogre]

What were yours at before Audyssey moved them back? Mine went from 16 to 20 iirc. I've had mixed results but mostly adding feet shortens the delay and IME that has helped. I've also had to do that to smooth over the XO region.

Mine went from 13.6 to 18.6 for one and 18.9 for the other. The other day when I was listening I set the step to 1' increments and started playing with the distances. Bringing them closer made it worse. Pushing them back another 2 ft to 20.6 and 20.9 seems to give me a little more, but hard to tell until I measure.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I've found that too. Moving them in adds delay and makes hints very mushy and tubby.

 

[PENG]

This is my first trial, no smoothing, the blue trace is with the minidsp filters generated from the Audyssey curve. I try using it with Audyssey off but it seemed hopeless because the "off" curve is just way too ugly to the mini to do anything.

From what I can see so far, the minidsp 2XHD can definitely make the frequency response smoother but in terms +/- it cannot do better than Audyssey by more than 1 dB, though I have not try re-running Audyssey.

 

[ATLAudio]

This is my first trial, no smoothing, the blue trace is with the minidsp filters generated from the Audyssey curve. I try using it with Audyssey off but it seemed hopeless because the "off" curve is just way too ugly to the mini to do anything.

View attachment 22270

From what I can see so far, the minidsp 2XHD can definitely make the frequency response smoother but in terms +/- it cannot do better than Audyssey by more than 1 dB, though I have not try re-running Audyssey.

Make sure Audyssey is off, and levels and distances are all zero. Once you do that measure each sub, and both at the same time.

 

[Pogre]

I'm so tempted to try the mini with my towers and let Audyssey handle the subs...

 

[NINaudio]

I'm so tempted to try the mini with my towers and let Audyssey handle the subs...

Sounds like you need another mini!

 

[Pogre]

Sounds like you need another mini!

Don't think I haven't considered it...

 

[NINaudio]

Don't think I haven't considered it...

Time for a 4x10 HD? And then you can sell me the 2x4 HD?

 

[PENG]

Don't think I haven't considered it...

Before you get a second unit, you may want to try using the other two outputs for your mains.