Incorporating MiniDSP With Audyssey XT32

[Pogre]

Okay, like I said those last measurements were my rough draft. I started from scratch again yesterday.

This is what I ended up with last week. Not bad at all.

This is what I managed yesterday. Not a huge difference, but looks a little better on paper, I think. I can't seem to dial in that area between about 75-85hz. Pretty damn flat from about 95hz on down tho.

This is my house curve for movies.

Pogre Style! This is where I like it for music listening.

An overlay for all 3. Yellow is with Audyssey on, no DEQ, EQ1. Green is Audyssey on, DEQ on, and a nice bump to my sub channels. Pogre Style is the same as movie mode, but EQ2 instead of EQ1.

As I was doing my thing I'm discovering that one tweak on one end can have effects on the rest of the signal, sometimes on the other end even. So I'd fix one thing then another would crop up. I ended up using 7 or 8 bands in my mini to get it as flat as I could before running Audyssey.

Every time I used a new band I cringed a little. I'm afraid of over adjusting and I'm thinking using 7 or 8 bands for corrections is a bit much? OTOH, I got things looking better "on paper" and it absolutely sounds better than before I added the mini. If I were to post the rest of the charts (phase, decay, waterfall, etc.) can we dig deeper into what's going on in my room?

I just got Floyd's book yesterday. I'm gonna start reading it. Maybe find something in there that'll help. There's just so much to learn!

 

[PENG]

Okay, like I said those last measurements were my rough draft. I started from scratch again yesterday.
View attachment 22183
This is what I ended up with last week. Not bad at all.

View attachment 22179
This is what I managed yesterday. Not a huge difference, but looks a little better on paper, I think. I can't seem to dial in that area between about 75-85hz. Pretty damn flat from about 95hz on down tho.

View attachment 22180
This is my house curve for movies.

View attachment 22181
Pogre Style! This is where I like it for music listening.

View attachment 22182
An overlay for all 3. Yellow is with Audyssey on, no DEQ, EQ1. Green is Audyssey on, DEQ on, and a nice bump to my sub channels. Pogre Style is the same as movie mode, but EQ2 instead of EQ1.

As I was doing my thing I'm discovering that one tweak on one end can have effects on the rest of the signal, sometimes on the other end even. So I'd fix one thing then another would crop up. I ended up using 7 or 8 bands in my mini to get it as flat as I could before running Audyssey.

Every time I used a new band I cringed a little. I'm afraid of over adjusting and I'm thinking using 7 or 8 bands for corrections is a bit much? OTOH, I got things looking better "on paper" and it absolutely sounds better than before I added the mini. If I were to post the rest of the charts (phase, decay, waterfall, etc.) can we dig deeper into what's going on in my room?

I just got Floyd's book yesterday. I'm gonna start reading it. Maybe find something in there that'll help. There's just so much to learn!

If they finally fixed the editor app you should be able to tweak the band 73-120 Hz. Have you tried plotting for positions several inches from the main mic position?

 

[Pogre]

If they finally fixed the editor app you should be able to tweak the band 73-120 Hz. Have you tried plotting for positions several inches from the main mic position?

I haven't, but this morning I loaded yesterday's work and generated charts for everything. I'm gonna post them all up here. I have no clue what to look for in pretty much anything except the spl chart.

If you or anyone else has the time, I would really appreciate some help understanding what's going on in my room. I've gotten my spl to look pretty decent, but I have no idea if the rest show something good, bad or ugly. I'm just gonna leave them in file form so they're easier to just scroll through. Thank you in advance.

 

[ATLAudio]

I haven't, but this morning I loaded yesterday's work and generated charts for everything. I'm gonna post them all up here. I have no clue what to look for in pretty much anything except the spl chart.

If you or anyone else has the time, I would really appreciate some help understanding what's going on in my room. I've gotten my spl to look pretty decent, but I have no idea if the rest show something good, bad or ugly. I'm just gonna leave them in file form so they're easier to just scroll through. Thank you in advance.

http://www.data-bass.com/know-how

This details much of what each measurement illustrates, and what to look for.

 

[Pogre]

http://www.data-bass.com/know-how

This details much of what each measurement illustrates, and what to look for.

Hey Grant! Thanks for the link. That saves me a little searching.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

ok. so I got my mini and started measuring. I used to use a behringer feedback destroyer with pretty good results but wanted something more granular, and streamlined. I'm hopin somebody can give me and idea of what the heck is happening at 18hz. This dip goes from just above 20 over to about 16 and is deep. At first I thought is was an anomaly or a mic reflection of some kind, but I used my tone generator and verified the level down by 20db at 18hz and back up to 80db by 16hz. I also verified this with some movie content and it definitely felt off. ive done hundreds of measurements of my subs and never seen that there. Anybody have any ideas?
thanks

 

[ATLAudio]

ok. so I got my mini and started measuring. I used to use a behringer feedback destroyer with pretty good results but wanted something more granular, and streamlined. I'm hopin somebody can give me and idea of what the heck is happening at 18hz. This dip goes from just above 20 over to about 16 and is deep. At first I thought is was an anomaly or a mic reflection of some kind, but I used my tone generator and verified the level down by 20db at 18hz and back up to 80db by 16hz. I also verified this with some movie content and it definitely felt off. ive done hundreds of measurements of my subs and never seen that there. Anybody have any ideas?
thanksView attachment 22206

Is this just subs, or with speakers?

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Is this just subs, or with speakers?

That should be with speakers. I did so many, both with/without mains.

 

[ATLAudio]

That should be with speakers. I did so many, both with/without mains.

Let's see just subs, same? If so adjust your distance for one sub a foot or two foot, and measure another sweep. It should smooth out then.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Let's see just subs, same? If so adjust your distance for one sub a foot or two foot, and measure another sweep. It should smooth out then.

I may have scrapped all those in haste this morning, but yes, it was still there. I will have to reset up. Maybe this weekend I'll get a chance. Fwiw, I did add some delay to one of the front subs(dualpc12+) but maybe not enough? I ran a sweep after, and it looked identical so I set it back where it was. The front subs are 16' from LP. They flank my mains and are slightly behind them. The 3rd is a Polk psw505(long story) that I use an mbm and runs from 30-60hz. Removing that doesn't change the suck out at 18 since it doesn't operate there. I did try though. I do appreciate any insight.

 

[ATLAudio]

I may have scrapped all those in haste this morning, but yes, it was still there. I will have to reset up. Maybe this weekend I'll get a chance. Fwiw, I did add some delay to one of the front subs(dualpc12+) but maybe not enough? I ran a sweep after, and it looked identical so I set it back where it was. The front subs are 16' from LP. They flank my mains and are slightly behind them. The 3rd is a Polk psw505(long story) that I use an mbm and runs from 30-60hz. Removing that doesn't change the suck out at 18 since it doesn't operate there. I did try though. I do appreciate any insight.

Let's measure each sub separately, and lay them on top of one another. Also, ensure you're using your UMik microphone, and not the microphone on your laptop, an easy mistake on REW.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Let's measure each sub separately, and lay them on top of one another. Also, ensure you're using your UMik microphone, and not the microphone on your laptop, an easy mistake on REW.

Roger that. Umik confirmed at startup, with cal file. I have measured all 3 separately, but like a bonehead, hastily deleted them. Fwiw, as you likely know already, the curves were vastly different. I can tell you, the two pc's intersect at about 18hz on differing paths of extension. I will setup tonight or tomorrow and rerun some measurements and keep all the graphs. Duh...
Appreciate the help.

 

[ATLAudio]

I can tell you, the two pc's intersect at about 18hz on differing paths of extension. I will setup tonight or tomorrow and rerun some measurements and keep all the graphs. Duh...
Appreciate the help.

That tells me about all I need to know. A modest one or two foot distance change on your AVR for one of the two PCs will smooth this out. Try the closest sub first, or the one most effected by corner loading. If that doesn't work, try physically moving the subs aside in half foot increments.

Make sure Auydssey is off, and all levels and distances are set to default before you sweep. Also make sure both PCs are level matched before running both at the same time. You can determine this using REW room EQ wizard and clicking on "set level match" to find out what level each sub averages out.

 

[TheWarrior]

As I was doing my thing I'm discovering that one tweak on one end can have effects on the rest of the signal, sometimes on the other end even. So I'd fix one thing then another would crop up. I ended up using 7 or 8 bands in my mini to get it as flat as I could before running Audyssey.

Every time I used a new band I cringed a little. I'm afraid of over adjusting and I'm thinking using 7 or 8 bands for corrections is a bit much? OTOH, I got things looking better "on paper" and it absolutely sounds better than before I added the mini. If I were to post the rest of the charts (phase, decay, waterfall, etc.) can we dig deeper into what's going on in my room?

I just got Floyd's book yesterday. I'm gonna start reading it. Maybe find something in there that'll help. There's just so much to learn!

Flat was NEVER the goal. To assume your hearing is linear, is a terrible mistake. How many of those filters are treating specific room modes, that you predicted? DSP was never intended to create your own idealized room curve. There should not be a dip right after the LFE crossover. And the low Q resonances above the LFE crossover indicate those may be higher order resonances from room modes, that were not canceled out entirely.

But don't take my word for it. Dive right in to Chapter 8!

And from Ch.12 p345 "When one sees a very smooth high-resolution steady-state room curve after equalization, there is a high possibility that something inappropriate has been done, and the sound quality may have been degraded. "

 

[Pogre]

Roger that. Umik confirmed at startup, with cal file. I have measured all 3 separately, but like a bonehead, hastily deleted them. Fwiw, as you likely know already, the curves were vastly different. I can tell you, the two pc's intersect at about 18hz on differing paths of extension. I will setup tonight or tomorrow and rerun some measurements and keep all the graphs. Duh...
Appreciate the help.

Dude, I accidentally deleted more than one file I meant to keep. I know exactly what you mean.

 

[Pogre]

That tells me about all I need to know. A modest one or two foot distance change on your AVR for one of the two PCs will smooth this out. Try the closest sub first, or the one most effected by corner loading. If that doesn't work, try physically moving the subs aside in half foot increments.

Make sure Auydssey is off, and all levels and distances are set to default before you sweep. Also make sure both PCs are level matched before running both at the same time. You can determine this using REW room EQ wizard and clicking on "set level match" to find out what level each sub averages out.

I pushed my subs back 2 more feet and while I haven't measured yet, it does sound better to me.

 

[Pogre]

Flat was NEVER the goal. To assume your hearing is linear, is a terrible mistake. How many of those filters are treating specific room modes, that you predicted? DSP was never intended to create your own idealized room curve. There should not be a dip right after the LFE crossover. And the low Q resonances above the LFE crossover indicate those may be higher order resonances from room modes, that were not canceled out entirely.

But don't take my word for it. Dive right in to Chapter 8!

And from Ch.12 p345 "When one sees a very smooth high-resolution steady-state room curve after equalization, there is a high possibility that something inappropriate has been done, and the sound quality may have been degraded. "

You're right. The goal was to improve what I hear, and I did just that. My bass response is way better now with the mini. I can hear it and it's glorious!

 

[TheWarrior]

You're right. The goal was to improve what I hear, and I did just that. My bass response is way better now with the mini. I can hear it and it's glorious!

Ch 8 in this 3rd Edition of 'Sound Reproduction' is way more in depth than Ch.13 of the second edition (both about bass below transition). I had to read it quite a few times to get my head around most of it in the old version. This new version is longer but easier to absorb, I feel. I think it will answer a lot of the questions you've had, that you've had to answer with guesses.

 

[ATLAudio]

You're right. The goal was to improve what I hear, and I did just that. My bass response is way better now with the mini. I can hear it and it's glorious!

That's fantastic! Let me know if you need any more help!

 

[Pogre]

That's fantastic! Let me know if you need any more help!

Hey, thanks for all the help so far. I got better results than I'd hoped for. Super happy now. I got you on speed dial!