Emotiva separates A-700/MC-700 OR Denon AVRX4300H for a 7.2 setup

[KEW]

I was biting my tongue with the thought you had already bought the Elacs!
Here is where I compared the Elac B5 to the Philharmonic Affordable Accuracy:
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/elac-b5-vs-philharmonic-affordable-accuracy-new-monitor.97171/
I was disappointed with the Elacs.
Also be sure to check the link in post #5 to see another review of several speakers in this price range. These reviews are all of bookshelves, but almost all designs use the same tweeter, and often the same mid with the towers adding a woofer. The sound character between towers and bookshelf speakers of the same series should be very close aside from the tower going lower and typically being capable of playing louder, so I am pretty comfortable applying the info from bookshelf reviews to towers as long as low bass is not the item being discussed. I also do not trust professional reviews because their livelihood is partially determined by their sponsors who are generally the manufacturers of the products they review (as in "don't bite the hand that feeds you").
So if we can help you find better speakers, we need to ask some questions. For starters...
What ratio of music/HT/gaming do you intend for your rig? For example, I am 95% music, 5% HT, and 0% gaming.

 

[Aman]

I couldn't locate an audioholics review of these speakers, do you have a link?

If I were putting together a 7.2 setup with your budget I'd consider Ascend Acoustics 340SEs across the front, either 170SE or 200SE speakers for surround depending on your mounting options, and team them with the Rythmik LV12R subs (Ascend can bundle with Rythmik subs, check them for pricing). I own several Ascend speakers and find them excellent performance and value.

Another option I'd consider would be SVS speaker/sub combos. Personally I'm less than excited by the whole Elac thing from what I've read, wouldn't even consider them myself.

What speakers have you listened to yourself?

Honestly I have only made trips to the Magnolia Center of the local BB and listened to B&W 683, Def Tech 9040 & MartinLogan Motion 40 and 60

I will look up the SVS speakers for sure.

 

[lovinthehd]

Honestly I have only made trips to the Magnolia Center of the local BB and listened to B&W 683, Def Tech 9040 & MartinLogan Motion 40 and 60

I will look up the SVS speakers for sure.

Just a mention in this recap of coverage of an event? I really don't like to watch videos much so didn't. Was thinking more of a formal Audioholics review, something including measurements etc. Ascend does provide measurements, something few do.

Also keep in mind the speakers in your own room can be a different experience.

Philharmonic would be another consideration for speakers.

ps BB/Magnolia does distribute SVS but I'd go direct with SVS personally

 

[KEW]

@Aman
In case you missed my post,
What ratio of music/HT/gaming do you intend for your rig? For example, I am 95% music, 5% HT, and 0% gaming.

 

[lovinthehd]

Check these out as well, Hsu has nice subs, too http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/hsu-research-ccb-8-bookshelf-speaker-review.108270/

 

[Aman]

@Aman
In case you missed my post,
What ratio of music/HT/gaming do you intend for your rig? For example, I am 95% music, 5% HT, and 0% gaming.

5% music, 95% HT, and 0% gaming. So mostly movies and sometimes a sporting event like super bowl or NBA finals etc

BTW I loved your review of the B5s and can safely say that you have saved me from the Elacs.

Reviewing hsu, rbh towers and philharmonic at the moment. Just concerned with pairing various brands and how the final result would turn out to be.

 

[KEW]

Just concerned with pairing various brands and how the final result would turn out to be.

The front three are the important ones to match. You don't want the sound to change as the source of sound pans across the front.
The content of the rears is far less important - see for yourself and watch part of a familiar movie with the front speakers unplugged (do it at the AVR so you don't accidentally short the terminals at the speakers).
If it was me, I'd go with 3 SVS Ultras bookshelfs across the front (get B-stock at $400 each) and two pairs of Sony CS-5's ($120/pr) for the rear & surrounds. (note that SVS has 45 days return policy for the Ultras. BestBuy has 14 days, or Amazon has 30 days return for the Sony's). So that is $1440 for your speakers, allowing $1560 for a pair of subs.
SVS certainly makes good subs, but I think Hsu and Rythmik offer better value. I haven't looked closely at subs in a while so others can better make recommendations. And I think Outlaw or Emotiva are also worth looking at for subs. We often forget them because they are not dedicated sub manufacturers.
I would try to shoot a little higher than the PB1000 for my sub. As a music guy, I would get a pair of Hsu ULS-15's with your budget. They would be excellent if you are in an apartment and don't want to piss-off your neighbors too badly. But if you own your home, you can go with something with more gravitas for putting some serious low frequency energy into your room.

https://www.svsound.com/collections/outlet-specials?page=2
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/sony-core-series-5-3-way-bookshelf-speakers-pair-black/5721014.p?skuId=5721014&extStoreId=&ref=212&loc=1&ksid=bbaeb2fb-31ab-4442-9547-7509781317ad&ksprof_id=16&ksaffcode=pg107674&ksdevice=c&lsft=ref:212,loc:2&gclid=Cj0KCQjwn6DMBRC0ARIsAHZtCeOBAsA9AhJ5ETKCuE05O6UJkxP2W6cHso6UTanqJNhhNLXntOxJZQAaAtk0EALw_wcB
https://www.amazon.com/Sony-SSCS5-3-Driver-Bookshelf-Speaker/dp/B00O8YLMVA/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1502112546&sr=8-3&keywords=sony+cs5

 

[Pogre]

Another vote for SVS. Their b stock is very good ime. I bought 3 of my bookshelves from their outlet and it's a struggle to find a mark on them. Everything in their outlet carries the same warranty as new stock.

 

[Aman]

The front three are the important ones to match. You don't want the sound to change as the source of sound pans across the front.
The content of the rears is far less important - see for yourself and watch part of a familiar movie with the front speakers unplugged (do it at the AVR so you don't accidentally short the terminals at the speakers).
If it was me, I'd go with 3 SVS Ultras bookshelfs across the front (get B-stock at $400 each) and two pairs of Sony CS-5's ($120/pr) for the rear & surrounds. (note that SVS has 45 days return policy for the Ultras. BestBuy has 14 days, or Amazon has 30 days return for the Sony's). So that is $1440 for your speakers, allowing $1560 for a pair of subs.
SVS certainly makes good subs, but I think Hsu and Rythmik offer better value. I haven't looked closely at subs in a while so others can better make recommendations. And I think Outlaw or Emotiva are also worth looking at for subs. We often forget them because they are not dedicated sub manufacturers.
I would try to shoot a little higher than the PB1000 for my sub. As a music guy, I would get a pair of Hsu ULS-15's with your budget. They would be excellent if you are in an apartment and don't want to piss-off your neighbors too badly. But if you own your home, you can go with something with more gravitas for putting some serious low frequency energy into your room.

https://www.svsound.com/collections/outlet-specials?page=2
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/sony-core-series-5-3-way-bookshelf-speakers-pair-black/5721014.p?skuId=5721014&extStoreId=&ref=212&loc=1&ksid=bbaeb2fb-31ab-4442-9547-7509781317ad&ksprof_id=16&ksaffcode=pg107674&ksdevice=c&lsft=ref:212,loc:2&gclid=Cj0KCQjwn6DMBRC0ARIsAHZtCeOBAsA9AhJ5ETKCuE05O6UJkxP2W6cHso6UTanqJNhhNLXntOxJZQAaAtk0EALw_wcB
https://www.amazon.com/Sony-SSCS5-3-Driver-Bookshelf-Speaker/dp/B00O8YLMVA/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1502112546&sr=8-3&keywords=sony+cs5

Thanks a ton!!!

Its amazing to get such wonderful response on my first post ever. This is going to be a super setup for my basement.

So for the three in front, should I go for SVS ultra bookshelf as the center and 2 SVS Ultra towers or will the 3 bookshelves suffice?

 

[KEW]

Thanks a ton!!!

Its amazing to get such wonderful response on my first post ever. This is going to be a super setup for my basement.

So for the three in front, should I go for SVS ultra bookshelf as the center and 2 SVS Ultra towers or will the 3 bookshelves suffice?

Since you will have subs, the tower's value is not so great. A good sub will take care of the bass that the tower would otherwise add. Some people like the sound of towers (with subs) better than bookshelves and some don't. Often it is the design of the tower. However, there is no question that two $500 Ultra bookshelves plus $1500 to spend on subs will far surpass two $1000 Ultra Towers plus $500 to spend on subs!

Pogre had the Ultras across the front and after he got a windfall, he bought towers, so he may be able to comment more on the differences. But, really, it is a no brainer for your budget. The real objective is a clean and clear speakers (which the Ultra bookshelf speakers will deliver) and good solid subwoofers which won't detract from your speakers (and $1500 for the pair is about the minimum of where you want to be for that).

I also, because of another thread, just found out that PSA has a pair of XV15se's for sale in their Outlet store for $700 each. He may drop another $50 off if you buy a pair. That is a great deal on a couple of solid vented subs. Here is Josh Ricci's review of the XV15 which is the model previous to the XV15se. They are virtually the same sub, but the XV15se has a slightly better driver, IIRC!
http://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer-reviews/xv-15-subwoofer

 

[Hetfield]

I'll be a love voice and day separates. You need all the power you can especially with less efficient speakers. Can't hurt that's for sure.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

 

[Aman]

Since you will have subs, the tower's value is not so great. A good sub will take care of the bass that the tower would otherwise add. Some people like the sound of towers (with subs) better than bookshelves and some don't. Often it is the design of the tower. However, there is no question that two $500 Ultra bookshelves plus $1500 to spend on subs will far surpass two $1000 Ultra Towers plus $500 to spend on subs!

Pogre had the Ultras across the front and after he got a windfall, he bought towers, so he may be able to comment more on the differences. But, really, it is a no brainer for your budget. The real objective is a clean and clear speakers (which the Ultra bookshelf speakers will deliver) and good solid subwoofers which won't detract from your speakers (and $1500 for the pair is about the minimum of where you want to be for that).

I also, because of another thread, just found out that PSA has a pair of XV15se's for sale in their Outlet store for $700 each. He may drop another $50 off if you buy a pair. That is a great deal on a couple of solid vented subs. Here is Josh Ricci's review of the XV15 which is the model previous to the XV15se. They are virtually the same sub, but the XV15se has a slightly better driver, IIRC!
http://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer-reviews/xv-15-subwoofer

Cool. That really does make sense to me.
So its 3 SVS Ultra bookshelves/4 Sony CS5s and 2 PSA XV15ses or HSU ULS-15s.

Also noticed that you did not mention the ultra center. I am wondering if the center as a bookshelf would look good under a 150in screen.

The media room in my basement will be finished by mid to end Sept. Can we expect any specials around labor day on these speakers?

Also instead of the sony C5s would RBH R5Bi be a better option?

 

[KEW]

Also noticed that you did not mention the ultra center. I am wondering if the center as a bookshelf would look good under a 150in screen.

Wow! That is a big screen! I have only heard the bookshelf, but I'm sure the center is good! The bookshelf is obviously a perfect match for your L & R and the center is more expensive. However if space under the screen is tight, you may want to go with the low profile center.
However, with such a big screen, I imagine you will either have to mount your center high or low of your ear holes. This means as that helicopter flys from left to right of the screen, the sound will dip to the floor or ceiling as it crosses the center.
My suggestion would be to temporarily start with two Ultras for your L&R and omit center until you are acclimated to your new system (you have become familiar with it's sound). This configuration is called a phantom center. Good speakers do a pretty amazing job of imaging sounds to the center. Once you are familiar with the sound of L&R Utras, buy your center (be it a center or a bookshelf) with the 45 day trial and then you can determine whether it is a worthwhile addition. Personally, I would find either of these situations wholly satisfying for HT, but I'm only 5% HT and not so obsessive about it as others.
Here are 3 ultras across the front courtesy of Pogre:

 

[Pogre]

Hey, that looks familiar!

I like Kurt's suggestion. I used those Ultra bookshelf speakers as my mains for quite a while before I got the towers. If you can, a bookshelf will make a better center channel, but not a lot of folks have the room, so we have dedicated center channel speakers.

I love my system. I came into a nice little windfall a little while ago and had some fun money to spend so I got a separate amp and the tower speakers because I could! If I'm being honest though, it wasn't a huge improvement. I *think* (placebo, anyone?) I have a little bit more presence in the midrange, but the real gains with the towers will be better bass extension. If you have subs that negates those advantages and makes getting bookshelfs a pretty compelling option.


The towers sure are purty tho...

 

[KEW]

Cool. That really does make sense to me.
So its 3 SVS Ultra bookshelves/4 Sony CS5s and 2 PSA XV15ses or HSU ULS-15s.

I did not mean to recommend the ULS-15's. They are a sealed sub, and since you are a HT guy, you want a vented sub. If you are not used to good subs, you would be delighted with the ULS-15, but the PSA will be better at affecting you on a primal level and making the hairs on the back of your neck stand up when the earthquake strikes.
I use sealed subs which I recommend for music (this is by no means an absolute rule, but still a good generality, IMHO). For an action movie like the Avengers, I raise the setting on my subs to 6-8dB above where Audyssey set it. It is fun and exciting to have that strong wallop in your home (and, happily, you are still not coming close to the pressurization of an actual explosion in your home).
I know several people here like to run their sub hotter for HT than for music (your 4300 will allow you to have different settings assigned to different sources, so you can play pandora with a musical setting and BluRay with a HT setting).
PSA's vented 15" subs will more readily give you that HT bass!

 

[KEW]

Also instead of the sony C5s would RBH R5Bi be a better option?

I have only heard the RBH towers from that series. They were very nice sounding, smooth speakers, but a little distant sounding for my taste.
I would want to hear both at the same time to actually say much more.
Doing an on paper analysis, the Sony's weigh 25% more than the RBH and the "tiny tweeter" should give the Sony better dispersion at the high frequencies which is good for a surround/rear speaker.
All I can really say is that the Sonys were strong competition in the $200/pr price category (I preferred them to the $500/pr Elac UB5, which is the only speaker I have A-B'ed them directly against) and now that they are $120/pr, they represent the kind of value I can recommend without any qualification.

Bottom line, if price matters, get the Sony's, if price is not a concern, I think you would be happy with either! Don't assume that because you spend more the RBH's will sound better.

 

[Aman]

I have only heard the RBH towers from that series. They were very nice sounding, smooth speakers, but a little distant sounding for my taste.
I would want to hear both at the same time to actually say much more.
Doing an on paper analysis, the Sony's weigh 25% more than the RBH and the "tiny tweeter" should give the Sony better dispersion at the high frequencies which is good for a surround/rear speaker.
All I can really say is that the Sonys were strong competition in the $200/pr price category (I preferred them to the $500/pr Elac UB5, which is the only speaker I have A-B'ed them directly against) and now that they are $120/pr, they represent the kind of value I can recommend without any qualification.

Bottom line, if price matters, get the Sony's, if price is not a concern, I think you would be happy with either! Don't assume that because you spend more the RBH's will sound better.

I see. Alright guys... I think my mind is made up. It will be the svs ultras, the sonys and the PSA subs.

On another note, the Denon 4300 arrived today. Once the system is all set up I will be sure to post an update.

 

[Masher59]

I just went through all this and I bought the 4300 as well but paid 1,400 for it lol. Not sure on the budget but I went with one HSU vtf-15h mk2, it's the ported hybrid because I ran low on funds. I have a large room and with one port sealed and one open this thing will get down. The sofa shakes and you feel the waves go through you haha. I just ordered my second one to finish off the system. The wife was like why do we need another one and I'm like yea to balance out everything. Then I got rolled eyes. Sounds like you are on the right path best of luck with everything.

 

[2channel lover]

I prefer separates, but in this case the 4300 makes the most sense from a feature standpoint. As others have said, it has the preouts to add more power later.

I second the HSU pkg...I think I saw a link to the new AH bookshelf review.

 

[PENG]

I prefer separates,

I like the fact that you use the word "prefer", and not stating that one is better than the other. I have tried both, and still owned both, AVRs and separates. I am not sure which one I prefer, but for HT, my next upgrade would likely be a downgrade to something like a X4300H or even the newer X3400H, with power amps since they are there already. Even in my separate 2 channel systems, I have hard time forcing myself to believe the separates sound better than my Denon AVR. I am 99% certain, that most people, if not all, would not be able to tell the difference as long as the gear are operated well within their power limits. Still, I have no intention of giving up any or my gear, separates or AVRs, switching them around is fun.