Kef Reference vs Klipsch Rf-7ii

[dafirst]

Considering the sizes and sensitivity of these speakers, Is kef overpriced or it deserves the Price.
KEF: Specs:
Design
Three-way Bass Reflex
Drive Units
Uni-Q driver array:
HF: 25mm (0.98") vented aluminum dome
MF: 125mm (4.92") aluminum
Bass units:
LF: 2 x165mm (6.50") aluminum
Frequency Range
Typical in room bass response: 28Hz (-6dB)
Free Field-Short port: 38Hz-45kHz (-6dB)
Free Field-Long port: 32Hz-45kHz (-6dB)
Frequency Response
43Hz-35kHz (+/-3dB)
Crossover Frequencies
350Hz, 2.8kHz
Maximum Output
113.5dB (peak sound pressure level at 1m with pink noise)
Amplifier Class
50-300W
Sensitivity
87.5dB (2.83V/1m)
Harmonic Distortion
2nd & 3rd harmonics (90dB, 1m)
<0.5% 40Hz-100kHz
<0.2% 200Hz-10kHz
Impedance
8Ohms (min.3.2 Ohms)
Dimensions (HxWxD)
With Grille and Terminal: 1155 x 205 x 470mm (45.47 x 8.07 x 18.50")
With Grille, Terminal and Plinth: 1202 x 349 x 470mm (47.32 x 13.74 x 18.50")
Weight
51.3kg (113.10 lbs)

KLIPSCH Specs:
Frequency Response
30Hz-24kHz +/- 3dB
Power Handling
250W RMS / 1000W Peak
Sensitivity
101dB at 2.83V / 1m
Nominal Impedance
8Ohms compatible
High Frequency Horn
8" square 90 deg. x 60 deg. Tractrix Horn
High Frequency Drivers
1.75" / 44.45mm Titanium diaphragm compression driver
Crossover Frequency
1200Hz
Low Refrequency Drivers
2x 10" / 254.00mm Cerametallic cone woofers
Inputs
Dual binding posts / bi-wire / bi-amp
Enclosure Type
Bass-reflex via dual rear-firing ports
Height
With feet: 48.5" / 1231.90mm
Width
11.6" / 294.64mm
Depth
With grille: 16.3" / 414.02mm
Weight
87.1lbs / 39.51kg
Price wise Klipsch is $1,599.00 and Kef $6,999. Has anyone got the chance to demo them?

 

[shadyJ]

I am guessing the KEF will be more neutral. The Klipsch will be able to get louder. If I had to choose between them I would go with KEF, but it should be a lot more expensive. I have heard them both, but not at the same time with the same material, so not in a way that can fairly compare them. In this price range I would go for JBL LSR6332s over either of the KEF or Klipsch, and add a couple of good subwoofers.

 

[Hetfield]

Is that Klipsch sensitivity 101 real or a BS spec? That's a very high sensitivity.

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[dafirst]

I am guessing the KEF will be more neutral. The Klipsch will be able to get louder. If I had to choose between them I would go with KEF, but it should be a lot more expensive. I have heard them both, but not at the same time with the same material, so not in a way that can fairly compare them. In this price range I would go for JBL LSR6332s over either of the KEF or Klipsch, and add a couple of good subwoofers.

Isn't the JBL LsR6332 a studio monitor? I don't think I will use a studio monitor for my living room. Will only use it for Studio or computer room and I will prefer to go with Adam audio should I wanted to go for studio monitors.

 

[dafirst]

Is that Klipsch sensitivity 101 real or a BS spec? That's a very high sensitivity.

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Well that's what Klipsch says on their specs. I've read lots of reviews about them on amazon and people tend to like them but hardly any reviews about Kef on sites like Amazon or any audio store.

 

[Hetfield]

Well that's what Klipsch says on their specs. I've read lots of reviews about them on amazon and people tend to like them but hardly any reviews about Kef on sites like Amazon or any audio store.

Yeah my speakers say 92 db but I saw tests that put it at 89 db. Lying about that spec kinda annoys me.

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[everettT]

Well that's what Klipsch says on their specs. I've read lots of reviews about them on amazon and people tend to like them but hardly any reviews about Kef on sites like Amazon or any audio store.

Nothing like Amazon reviews to reinforce a purchase
Klipsch, Polk, etc anything that says reference is like saying sucker. Kef R series and their reference line is night and day to the others. As for specs , only trust third party reviews fyi. Definitive Technologies say most of their speakers play into the low 30s and high 20s

 

[Hetfield]

Nothing like Amazon reviews to reinforce a purchase
Klipsch, Polk, etc anything that says reference is like saying sucker. Kef R series and their reference line is night and day to the others. As for specs , only trust third party reviews fyi. Definitive Technologies say most of their speakers play into the low 30s and high 20s

Yeah that my speaker of choice, Def Tech and they build great speakers but why they lie about specs makes no sense. They don't need too. I wish they'd stop. I don't look at those specs when buying.

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[Beave]

Is that Klipsch sensitivity 101 real or a BS spec? That's a very high sensitivity.

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If I remember right, some test data from a German audio website/magazine put the actual sensitivity around 93dB. That's higher than most home speakers but nowhere near the BS spec of 101dB/2.83v/1m.

 

[yepimonfire]

I would wait for the RF 7iii, if they use the same hybrid tractrix horn it should be much more neutral and have very wide off acis dispersion. My rp-150ms measure flat from 1.8khz-14khz out as far as 90° off axis, whereas the reference II series only has a 60° dispersion pattern, and begins beaming above 10khz. The rb-10 with the 60x90 tractrix horn measures flat from 2.2khz-16khz out to about 40° off axis, at 45° there is a 3dB rolloff starting at 10khz, and at 60° off axis this changes to -6dB rolloff. At 70° -9dB, and at 90° -15dB.

Klipsch sensitivity ratings are exaggerated, but the rp-280f measures at 92.5dB at 1w/1m. Here is the response graph

. The RF 7iii should dig even deeper and play louder.

Don't know max SPL figures for the floor models but I can get 107dB at 3m from the rp-150m bookshelf with no audible strain. Cut that to 1m and that should translate to ~116dB, and that's with a bookshelf at 110 watts per channel.

The three way design of the kef should translate to lower IM distortion in theory, and the uni q drivers should have fantastic off axis response, but I have no experience with them.

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[yepimonfire]

Link didn't work.

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[PENG]

Link didn't work.

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What smoothing, 1/12, 1/24?

 

[everettT]

Yeah that my speaker of choice, Def Tech and they build great speakers but why they lie about specs makes no sense. They don't need too. I wish they'd stop. I don't look at those specs when buying.

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I have nothing against DT other than published specs. If speakers sound good to the purchaser, that's what's is important. Comparing kef r or reference series to any Klipsch series other than the Palladium or the Heritage lines is fruitless . The marketing BS with buzz words has a new generation excited. Xs

What smoothing, 1/12, 1/24?

Quite sure is way lower lol.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I have nothing against DT other than published specs. If speakers sound good to the purchaser, that's what's is important. Comparing kef r or reference series to any Klipsch series other than the Palladium or the Heritage lines is fruitless . The marketing BS with buzz words has a new generation excited. Xs

Quite sure is way lower lol.

I guess 1/6. Is there a prize?

 

[everettT]

I guess 1/6. Is there a prize?

Your prize is winner for calling out a very manipulated graph!

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Your prize is winner for calling out a very manipulated graph!

Lol. Yay! I don't win much so I'll take that.

 

[KEW]

If you end up going with KEF, you should at least check pricing here. Many of us have had good experiences with A4L and I would consider a speaker refurbed by KEF as good as a new one:
http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/category/spkfloor/speakers/floor-standing-speakers/1.html?brand_f[]=KEF

I assumed you were looking at floor-standers, but you can look through the menus for other options.

 

[yepimonfire]

I have nothing against DT other than published specs. If speakers sound good to the purchaser, that's what's is important. Comparing kef r or reference series to any Klipsch series other than the Palladium or the Heritage lines is fruitless . The marketing BS with buzz words has a new generation excited. Xs

Quite sure is way lower lol.

Why is that? The major difference between the reference series and heritage/cinema series is the use of cermetallic drivers (aluminum anodized with a thin layer of ceramic, much like the CMMD drivers used in the infinity primus series) which are compliance controlled woofers over mass controlled, allowing smaller cabinets with acceptable bass response (at the expense of some sensitivity).

What if I told you the horns used in the reference II, reference premier, and cheap reference are the same design as used in the cinema and heritage II series? Klipsch started using tractrix horns instead of exponential horns with the creation of the k402 and k510 horns. Its not a true tractrix, but a hybrid tractrix designed for constant directivity and constant coverage, meaning the radiation pattern doesn't change based on frequency (and remains 90x60 or 90x90) and the radiation pattern remains constant from the lowest frequencies to the highest.

The most recent reference speakers use a 90x90 horn vs a 90x60 horn, which provides better vertical coverage, and some of the reference series utilize horn loaded titanium domes vs compression drivers. I believe the RF 7 II is the only reference series to use a true compression driver.

See here https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/169632-tractrix-vs-exponential/&do=findComment&comment=2129685

The OP didn't state what his goals were, but from what it seemed, he was comparing two large, sensitive speakers.

If you're looking for a true cinema like experience, you need high sensitivity, high dynamic range, controlled directivity, and an extremely wide listening window with excellent off axis response, Klipsch is the way to go for that. If you're looking for ruler flat speakers, other options might be better. The latest reference premier series are acceptably accurate, no longer bright and harsh.


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[yepimonfire]

What smoothing, 1/12, 1/24?

I have no idea. The measurement is from sound and vision.

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[yepimonfire]

Klipsch Reference premier 150m close mic measurements, 1/24th smoothing:

No smoothing:

This is in room, the room is sparingly treated for mid/high frequencies with auralex, but not for bass, so anomalies below about 200hz are likely room acoustics.

Decay:

Distortion:

Note that these measurements were taken at 95dB measured @1m, I didn't bother to calibrate the spl meter in REW.