Total Audio Redo...***forewarning*** long read

[2channel lover]

First off I need to acknowledge some people.

@Pogre @shadyJ , @BMXTRIX , @Swerd, @speakerman39, @lovinthehd, I’m sure I’m leaving somebody out and I apologize, but THANK YOU!!!

It’s been nearly 20 yrs since I’ve really made a serious effort to upgrade my music system. I did make an effort to add HT about 10 yrs ago and the Great Recession hit so I just bought a big box Onkyo AVR, a Paradigm cc190, and ps1200, a pair of Polk rears and called it a day.

We’re mid 50’s now, and approaching empty-nester status. It seemed like the right time re-invest in my music hobby. There's a considerable difference in the market place now...both the products and the way you buy them...thanks again to all that have shed some light on it and continue to.

This redo is actually two projects in one.

Whole House audio…it’s not truly whole house, only 3 rooms have music but I would be remiss if I didn’t mention it. A lot of work went into the sunroom. The project consists of 3 pairs of in ceiling speakers. A pair in the sunroom, great room, and master. When you open the patio doors connecting the sunroom and great room it becomes a nice house for gatherings and entertaining. I needed the SQ in the two living spaces to be able to produce festive type volume.

After a few months of research I bought a pair of Noble Fidelity L85Mkii speakers for the sun room to try them out. They deliver what I was seeking and they deliver with great detail, clarity and even some bass to boot. Buying a 2nd pair was an easy decision. You can spend a lot more on in ceiling speakers, but before you do…call Greg Ford @ Noble Fidelity. IMO no one will exceed his knowledge and passion about in wall speakers. I bought a more budget minded speaker for the Polk RC80i in the master, but I will say for the money they do a nice job.

Pic of the greatroom taken from the overlook in the loft. To the left is the kitchen and dining. The right is the master. The other pair of Noble Fidelity in ceiling are opposite those patio doors.

TV wall in the sunroom. The L85mkii speakers are in the ceiling close to this wall. That Sony 65" 4k might be the nicest TV we own.

All of the house audio speakers are on vaulted ceilings like this nor more than 4' off the wall...L85mkii, these rock.

Water feature opposite the fireplace wall in the sunroom...a nice adult beverage with the L85mkii going...good spot to hang out.

Build stage of the water feature. Testing it out...this was a 20x9 patio, converted to 20x21 sunroom


Sorry for all of the pics there, the focus of the redo is obviously my music system. But our pride and joy is that sunroom. From what it was to what it is now was a big undertaking. I have thank my wife for twisting my arm to do it.

Budget…When started my initial research, improving my main/center speakers were at the top of the list. I felt if I could get the LCR speakers for under $7500, I could accomplish what I set out to do for around $14-15k for everything including house audio. As of now, not all is done, but all of the heavy lifting is done and I'm tallying $14,I think I will come in under $15k with a few bucks over the buy a few SACDs!

Music/HT space…17’Lx18’Wx9’H, flat ceiling. Objective. I’ve heard live music in several formats, large arena, small quaint venues, and recording studios. I wanted to build a system that could mimic live music as close as what my budget would allow, and also double as a home theater for 2 people.

This is what I had to work with. Decent size but irregular shaped...I had two 20amp circuits put in the TV wall.

Here you see some of the challenges of the space for HT...my office is across from the stair landing.

HT seating for 2! On advice I got here, I pulled this recliner out about 5' or so from the wall and 1 sub is behind the seating. The sweet spot is the chair on the right in this pic, but when the wife comes up I let her have it. Note the RB5i surrounds in the back.

That chair and ottoman are not staying...a smaller chair is planned there and I did toy around with one of the subs over there between the chair and the HVAC closet door.

Group shot...I forgot to include the RBH surrounds, but I think I got everything else. The Paradigm CC and the 804 B&W will be replaced at some point in the fall by the Salk mains and center.



Video…60”1080p Samsung Plasma…This TV is about 8 yrs old now, obviously not part of the redo, but it will be the display until it conks out. The exact model I’m not sure and I wasn’t going to take it off the wall to find out. When the new Salk center get here I’ll have to raise the TV a few inches so I’ll figure out what the model is then. It’s not a smart TV…bare bones 1080p, only 2 hdmi inputs…I think it’s in the 5300 series.

Armed with what the wife didn’t spend from my yearend bonus, in December 2016 I went to work. These purchases are more or less in sequential order. When my mother inlaw moved bought her place and moved out, I fired my old system back up and just wanted no part of the Onkyo AVR anymore so I started with electronics…backwards I suppose, but I at least liked my B&W804m speakers.

Components

Control… Marantz AV7702Mkii (5.2.2) Up to date processing, quality and plenty of analog, HDMI, and digital connection options. I bought this as a closeout. Ccompared to the incoming 7703 price, I feel like I stole this. Other options I considered…Emotiva XMC-1, XSP1, Outlaw 975. The 975 was attractive pricewise, but for the dollar spent I thought I got more features with the Marantz.

AMPs…Outlaw Audio M2200 monoblocks x 3…200w, powering the LCR speakers. Admittedly this was an impulse buy. I was fairly certain I was going to buy either the 7140 from Outlaw or the Monolith 7 ch from Monoprice. Outlaw was running a holiday promo and the mono blocks were a great price…next thing I know I had 3 in my cart. I had this crazy idea of running every channel in my HT with one of these. But when I started adding up the dollars even at my promo price I bought a budget priced 5 ch amo. These mono block run very quiet and have ample power for most any speaker. Even stacking them, they run cool after playing 75-80 db for 2 or 3 hours....as crazy as my idea sounded, it wouldn't bother me to run every channel in my HT with one.

Emotiva BASX A500…80wpc all driven powering the HT surrounds. Side rears and Front Heights..this was part of my holiday spending spree. Emotiva now has eliminated promotional pricing per there website so I feel pretty good about the price I paid for this amp. This amp was in service powering the zone 2. I thought it did a great great of pushing the Noble Fidelity speakers.

Emotiva BASX A700…powering the surround channels (never used, never even opened the box…later returned for the pictured BASX A800. 35 wpc, bridgeable…handles 8 speakers. Paid the market price.

If I had this to do again, I probably would've waited for the Outlaw 7140 to come in or bought the Monoprice 7 ch, amp. I would've saved some rack space, but I'm happy.

Source…Oppo UHD205…I have a couple of 4k TVs, but 4k content is not very important to me right now, SQ is. I was somewhat skeptical of this purchase initially. Audiophile quality seemed more like marketing. The early owner reviews were mixed almost 50/50 which was little scary for a $1300 player. In the end I got got enough positive feedback from reviewers and owners that I took the plunge. After one night of listening to some CDs…I did some A/B comparison with my Rotel RDD980/RDP980…the Oppo has more detail for certain. I may never know how much better it is than the 203, but I was pleased with what I heard. I’m ordering a few SACDs this week.

To be continued...upcoming LCR speakers, surround & front height speakers and subs.

 

[speakerman39]

Looking very good there. You have such a nice place. I can tell that you have been really hard at it. Congrats on that. BTW, I would place the RBH surrounds up higher if you can. They should be a few feet above ear level. That should improve things somewhat. The B&W towers sure look impressive!


Cheers,

Phil

 

[2channel lover]

Thanks spkr39. We have...I did some of the work on the sunroom myself, framed the water feature, window install, and the interior window/door trim. Mostly I've worked on the music.

RBH...exactly. I was disappointed the stands weren't taller. I'm working inside the wall near the plant right now dropping a speaker wire for the surrounds and rca for the sub behind the seat. I thought about brackets, but getting inside the opposite wall is a lot harder.

I can build some 12" plinths that can get them above ear height.

My plan is to give the B&Ws to my son...for what ever reason if he doesn't want maybe I'll move them to the rear. On plinths they will be a good height.

B&Ws...they have been with me the longest. I bought them in August '97. Still in great shape. I have a co-worker that has seen and heard them...I have standing offer from him should I sell them....later on I'll post some pics of the Salks I've ordered. The mains are somewhat taller than the B&Ws.

 

[shadyJ]

Those VTF-3s and Outlaw Monoblocks are hilariously overpowered for your application. It will all sound awfully sweet though. Remind me, what Salk speakers did you decide to go with in the end?

 

[2channel lover]

Those VTF-3s and Outlaw Monoblocks are hilariously overpowered for your application. It will all sound awfully sweet though. Remind me, what Salk speakers did you decide to go with in the end?

The M2200s, maybe that's why they run so cool. Not getting taxed much.

VTF3...you might be right there, I'll know more tonight.

Salks...The Song3A, and the Supercharged Center.

 

[shadyJ]

Song3A speakers, very nice choice! I heard some at an audio show over a year ago, just outstanding speakers for $3k. I had a nice discussion with Jim Salk about them.

The nice thing about having too much power for the subs and monoblocks is that, since you will rarely ever tax them, they should last a long time. For subs, an additional advantage about not pushing them is they will stay in very linear operating ranges the whole time, so you have have extremely low distortion and very high sound quality. If you stay well within linear excursion, you will be looking at something like 1% THD from the sub, and the room gain will make that even less, so you will end up with very pristine sound quality.

 

[speakerman39]

Thanks spkr39. We have...I did some of the work on the sunroom myself, framed the water feature, window install, and the interior window/door trim. Mostly I've worked on the music.

RBH...exactly. I was disappointed the stands weren't taller. I'm working inside the wall near the plant right now dropping a speaker wire for the surrounds and rca for the sub behind the seat. I thought about brackets, but getting inside the opposite wall is a lot harder.

I can build some 12" plinths that can get them above ear height.

My plan is to give the B&Ws to my son...for what ever reason if he doesn't want maybe I'll move them to the rear. On plinths they will be a good height.

B&Ws...they have been with me the longest. I bought them in August '97. Still in great shape. I have a co-worker that has seen and heard them...I have standing offer from him should I sell them....later on I'll post some pics of the Salks I've ordered. The mains are somewhat taller than the B&Ws.

BTW, I forgot to mention that the water feature is outstanding! Very nice touch to the room. Once you get it all setup, I am sure it is going to sound fantastic. Have always wanted some B&W's like you have. Just prefer stand mounted to towers. I can only dream of the B&W Diamond Series bookshelves. But, it sure never hurts to dream so might as well dream BIG!


Cheers,

Phil

 

[2channel lover]

Song3A speakers, very nice choice! I heard some at an audio show over a year ago, just outstanding speakers for $3k. I had a nice discussion with Jim Salk about them.

The nice thing about having too much power for the subs and monoblocks is that, since you will rarely ever tax them, they should last a long time. For subs, an additional advantage about not pushing them is they will stay in very linear operating ranges the whole time, so you have have extremely low distortion and very high sound quality. If you stay well within linear excursion, you will be looking at something like 1% THD from the sub, and the room gain will make that even less, so you will end up with very pristine sound quality.

Salks...I'd heard a pair of Salks a few years ago. I wasn't in the market at the time, but did like the sound and being a music guy I remember asking the owner what kind they were. Salk Sound he said....I later learned they were SongTowers.

Fast forward a couple of years now I was in the market. I wasn't thinking about Salks. Through the internet I soon re-discovered the brand and in a lot more detail. That led to a few phone conversations with Jim Salk. I explained a bit of my music listening tastes, the system that I had and where I was trying to get to with this new system. The end result was placing an order for the Song3-A. I'll have more details on the speaker journey in this thread.

Overkill system...I wouldn't say I started out with the intention of an over-engineered system. Since I was buying electronics ahead of the speakers (maybe backwards) I wanted to make sure I had enough power for whatever speaker I ended up buying...when I ran across the Outlaw promotional pricing...opportunity and means crossed paths. The big 7 ch amps would have given me more juice all the way around, but the complete channel separation and power supplies for the 2 main channels was enticing.

The subs...after some initial technical problems (not related to the subs) that I finally got resolved last night I was able to give them a workout. You know what you're talking about sir. For now, I have one on the TV wall to the right of the TV and the other behind the main seating. They are beasts! I'm still tinkering with the fine tuning but the volume control is slightly under the 9 position for the best blend with the mains with music. I'll get a movie in between now and the weekend. I'll also get into the room EQ in a while, but I can tell already they're not going to be working too hard.

 

[2channel lover]

BTW, I forgot to mention that the water feature is outstanding! Very nice touch to the room. Once you get it all setup, I am sure it is going to sound fantastic. Have always wanted some B&W's like you have. Just prefer stand mounted to towers. I can only dream of the B&W Diamond Series bookshelves. But, it sure never hurts to dream so might as well dream BIG!


Cheers,

Phil

Thanks again Phil.

Water feature...I was looking for wow factor opposite the fireplace. I was eating lunch at this restaurant that had a water fall in the entrance. I thought, that's it a water feature! It definitely has the wow factor I was looking for.

B&Ws...I hear ya. Back then it's funny...the 804 towers were actually better executed speakers than the larger 803. Didn't have the low end of the 803 but the blend, bass, mid-range, and tweeter just made the 804 a cleaner sounding speaker. Book shelfs...I have a neighbor (former now) that has the system you would die for...5 805D (I think his are the original D or D2) in his basement HT space with 4 subs...I'm the one that turned him onto B&W speakers...A doctor with cash to burn.

I've heard the 805,804,803 of the D3 line...mentioned in part of my notes on the speaker purchase in this thread.

 

[speakerman39]

Thanks again Phil.

Water feature...I was looking for wow factor opposite the fireplace. I was eating lunch at this restaurant that had a water fall in the entrance. I thought, that's it a water feature! It definitely has the wow factor I was looking for.

B&Ws...I hear ya. Back then it's funny...the 804 towers were actually and better executed speaker than the larger 803. Didn't have the low end of the 803 but the blend, bass, mid-range, and tweeter just made the 804 a cleaner sounding speaker. Book shelfs...I have a neighbor (former now) that has the system you would die for...5 805D (I think his are the original D or D2) in his basement HT space with 4 subs...I'm the one that turned him onto B&W speakers...A doctor with cash to burn.

I've heard the 805,804,803 of the D3 line...mentioned in part of my notes on the speaker purchase in this thread.

Your neighbor is one lucky guy. Having (5) of the B&W 805D's has to be stellar! Mind me asking what he is powering them with? Also, what kind of subs is your neighbor using. Would love to see some pics of it sometime. Like I said, if you are going to dream might as well dream BIG! I can only imagine how good that has to sound. Maybe one day when I win the lottery........LOL!!!!!!


Cheers,

Phil

 

[2channel lover]

Your neighbor is one lucky guy. Having (5) of the B&W 805D's has to be stellar! Mind me asking what he is powering them with? Also, what kind of subs is your neighbor using. Would love to see some pics of it sometime. Like I said, if you are going to dream might as well dream BIG! I can only imagine how good that has to sound. Maybe one day when I win the lottery........LOL!!!!!!


Cheers,

Phil

The retailer he bought them from was the same place I got mine. They pushed Rotel or Mc electronics with B&W. The doctor had McIntosh gear, and I'm sure he still does...the subs I don't remember...they may have been B&W as well.

We downsized and moved to where we are now so I haven't kept in touch with him much lately. The next time I'm up that way I'll drive through to see if he's still there. I know he got divorced before we sold, but he kept the house....somehow.

 

[speakerman39]

The retailer he bought them from was the same place I got mine. They pushed Rotel or Mc electronics with B&W. The doctor had McIntosh gear, and I'm sure he still does...the subs I don't remember...they may have been B&W as well.

We downsized and moved to where we are now so I haven't kept in touch with him much lately. The next time I'm up that way I'll drive through to see if he's still there. I know he got divorced before we sold, but he kept the house....somehow.

Man McIntosh and B&W Diamonds would have to be splendid to say the least. He certainly is one lucky guy. Thanks for the info!


Cheers,

Phil

 

[Pogre]

All that work you've done shows. That sun room and water effect are pretty awesome.

I think you're going about everything "the right way" if there is such a thing. Everything is looking g great! I'd love to hear your system when everything is finished.

 

[2channel lover]

All that work you've done shows. That sun room and water effect are pretty awesome.

I think you're going about everything "the right way" if there is such a thing. Everything is looking g great! I'd love to hear your system when everything is finished.

Thanks...I'm not sure about "right way". I don't think many people would have 5 amps in their system...lol...12v trigger is a necessity! But there was a thought process behind each piece.

I'm going to update the thread with the addition of the subs today...you were spot on with the VTF15 3.5.

 

[Pogre]

Thanks...I'm not sure about "right way". I don't think many people would have 5 amps in their system...lol...12v trigger is a necessity! But there was a thought process behind each piece.

I'm going to update the thread with the addition of the subs today...you were spot on with the VTF15 3.5.

Yeah, I use that term loosely. I guess I mean you're making good choices. If I had the disposable income I'd have a separate amp for each speaker!

I have your thread tagged now so I'll get notifications when you update as you go. I'm really quite happy to have been able to help with sub advice.

 

[2channel lover]

Yeah, I use that term loosely. I guess I mean you're making good choices. If I had the disposable income I'd have a separate amp for each speaker!

I have your thread tagged now so I'll get notifications when you update as you go. I'm really quite happy to have been able to help with sub advice.

I always say this jokingly...you can never have too much power, but guys that know much more than me say if you're driving your equipment hard a lot or you have under-powered amplification you will be replacing it sooner vs later.

 

[2channel lover]

Phase 2...LCR speakers, surrounds, subs.

I tapped out most of the cash in DEC with the component purchases. I figure it would take me about 6-7 months to regroup and finish the purchases. The guy that I bought my 1st hifi purchase from I thought was very knowledgeable and certainly passionate about hifi. He told me...spend the most money you can on speakers and source. That made logical sense to me 35 yrs ago, and it still makes sense to me.

I knew it was going to take me about 6 or 7 months to refill the accounts to finish this project up. In the meantime, I was able demo a lot of speakers. Given that I had a pair of B&Ws I spent half a day listening to the new D3 models, 805, 804, and 803. I was impressed, especially with the 803. It was not always the most accurate, cleaning sounding speaker with solid, tight bass that it is today. In the coming weeks, with the same demo material I also listened to the Revel F206 & 208, Monitor Audio G300, Golden Ear Triton 1, & 2, the Martin Logan Motion 40 & 60, 3 Paradigm models, 2 KEF models, all told about 15 or 16 speakers. We do not have a Legacy dealer here that I'm aware of. I was anxious to hear those, but was not able to.

I was less impressed by the B&Ws after listening to these other speakers. It had nothing to do with the performance of the speakers. B&Ws are very good speakers imo, but so were many of the others and most of those were less than half the price of the $15,000 B&W803D3. One benefit of this demo exercise was I realized I should not have a big problem upgrading my speakers plus a center for $7500-$8000.

Still with several months to go on the saving campaign, I started looking online. After a period of time lurking on forums like this I eventually learned of Salk Sound, a direct sale custom speaker company out of MICH. The almost cult-like following from Salk owners was intriguing for a brand I'd never heard of before. The pro reviewers seemed to really like the product also. I said I need to probe this a little more. I called Salk Sound and spoke to Jim Salk, the owner. I told him I was in the market for new speakers, but was merely in a fact finding mode today. He was very generous with time, and answered all of my questions. He clearly not trying to sell anything, but he was particularly proud of his new 3way design...the Song3. He said he had not heard a speaker with the detail and low end extension for the pricepoint.

I came away from that conversation very impressed with Jim's knowledge and approach to the business. Given that my B&Ws were 3 way speakers, I did some more research on the Song3 specifically. Glowing reviews from everyone that had heard them.....at that point without ever having heard these speakers I was pretty much sold on Salk Sound and I was pretty sure I would get the Song3. I had few more email correspondences with Jim answering more questions. Jim said they were gearing up for AXPONA '17, and he would have 2 new offering from the Song3 line. The Song3-A, basically a Song3 with an upgraded mid range speaker. He felt it was a considerable upgrade in detail. He had made a pair for customer that requested the Accuton mid range driver. Shortly after testing the speaker before shipping them, he knew it needed to be in the line up. The other was a larger speaker he called Song3 Encore...different drivers altogether, but a speaker with deeper extension.

Fast forward to the end of May...I'm funded now. I've heard the reviews on the new speakers from AXPONA, and I call Jim back. Hey, remember me? I'm ready to order. I was kind of torn between the Encore and the 3A. He said if you are going to be running these with subs, I would get the 3A if it were me.

I ordered the Song3A on May 30th.

This is the speaker with a stained cherry. I went with a natural cherry.

Supercharged Song Center was the center he suggested for my room size and the speaker match...also in natural cherry.

Now I wait. In spite of all the acclaim and loyal following of these speakers, admittedly, I'm a little nervous...and a lot stoked!

 

[Swerd]

Given that I had a pair of B&Ws I spent half a day listening to the new D3 models, 805, 804, and 803. … … In the coming weeks, with the same demo material I also listened to the Revel F206 & 208, Monitor Audio G300, Golden Ear Triton 1, & 2, the Martin Logan Motion 40 & 60, 3 Paradigm models, 2 KEF models, all told about 15 or 16 speakers.

I was less impressed by the B&Ws after listening to these other speakers. It had nothing to do with the performance of the speakers. B&Ws are very good speakers imo, but so were many of the others and most of those were less than half the price of the $15,000 B&W803D3.

You said it well. Most of the B&W 800 series speakers do sound good. There have been far too many different models over the years for me to have heard them all, but my experience (and that of many others) was similar to yours. The 800 series are good but overpriced. The 600 and CM series have some flaws that made it easy for me to ignore them. They are also overpriced.

I called Salk Sound and spoke to Jim Salk, the owner. I told him I was in the market for new speakers, but was merely in a fact finding mode today. He was very generous with time, and answered all of my questions. He clearly not trying to sell anything, but he was particularly proud of his new 3way design...the Song3. He said he had not heard a speaker with the detail and low end extension for the pricepoint.

That sounds just like the Jim Salk I've dealt with. It's a real pleasure to speak with him and to do business with him.

Now I wait. In spite of all the acclaim and loyal following of these speakers, admittedly, I'm a little nervous...and a lot stoked!

After a period of somewhat fewer orders, the new Salk3, 3-A, and 3 Encore have make Salk quite busy again. I imagine Jim had to look for a new employee or two to handle all the orders he got. Finding someone qualified these days isn't so easy.

Hang in there. I hope they're done soon. You've made a great choice and you will be rewarded with some excellent sounding and beautiful looking speakers.

 

[2channel lover]

Subs.

I had a Paradigm ps1200 in my system for a while, but never really used it much in 2 channel. Once we moved into this house an I started putting the system back together, my co-worker that has been very eager for my cast offs bought it off me.

Music is my passion and for the last 20 yrs I've been listening to my 804m mostly in 2.0 mode. It was never the most bottom heavy speaker and maybe I just had gotten used the the low end that it delivered. One thing I discovered when demoing the new speakers, there were a few that have rock solid low end, certainly more than my speakers. The B&W dealer said the more cost effective way to increase the bottom end was just to add a sub. That didn't really go over well with me, because my experience had not be that great in 2.1.

He said, the modern higher quality subs are much quicker, and musically oriented than my PS1200. We connected the 804D3 to a B&W sub played some of the same tracks, and that was what I was looking for.

I needed a sub for HT anyway, so I dove into researching subs, Rythmik, SVS, HSU, PSA are some of the more recognizable brands.

Then the question became sealed or ported, two vs one, etc. I kind of followed the thread @Pogre on his sub purchase and spoke to a few local retailers about their dealer distributed options. I will say, all of the direct sale companies were very forthcoming and helpful. It seemed like all of the subs would cover my needs so it eventually boiled down to price.

In the end when I spoke to HSU Research, Kevin said the ULS 15 was a great sub for music, but in larger spaces it might struggle. The VTF series would offer more tuning options and when functioning as a sealed sub the performance rivals the ULS. I was thinking I would get the larger VTF15Hmk2...Kevin mentioned it would do the job no question if you can give it the ideal location. He said two VTF3mk5 would offer more flexibility, better performance and less taxing on the sub. He said the Memorial day sale made it a great value and start with one and then see how both work and if I was content with one they would take the other one back, no questions asked.

I bought two VTF3mk5s...still experimenting, initially I had one connected directly to the Oppo and the gain was maxed out. I thought I might have way too much sub as I barely had the sub gain to the "9" position....once connected correctly through the Marantz with the pre/pro gain at 5dB, big difference. Glad I bought two, but much like Kevin and ShadyJ have said, they should provide great performance and shouldn't be taxed much.

 

[2channel lover]

@Swerd

B&W...that's it in a nutshell. I didn't listen to any of the 600 series. The 803 is a wonderful speaker, I could listen to those for hours, but the Monitor Audio gold speaker and the big Revel speakers were not far behind it...if at all. There was a guy taking delivery of a pr of the 803s when I was there and I'm thinking, this guy just dropped $15k on those speakers.

Salks...yeah I know, Jim did say quite a few people that were on the fence placed orders before the Jun 1. price increase and AXPONA feedback has fueled units on the Encore. @Bucknekked is on pins and needles but it sounds like they will be ready to ship his STs any day so I'm happy for him. I'm not expecting mine until late OCT.

With so much new so quickly, I'm still getting acquainted with the gear that is in. I'm buying a few SACDs today to see how the 205 performs with those.