Stupid question about preamp, and amps?

[Hetfield]

I do and I don't. I'm getting put of my comfort zone here, but if I understand it correctly you'll still be getting more power from the amp than your avr, you'll just have to turn the volume up more on the avr when listening. Plus it's only a troubleshooting step that could clear things up for you very easily. We're just asking you to try it. You can always put it back, right?

That's the part I don't understand. I could understand it if it involved tearing your system apart or could cause harm in some way. Adjusting the gains is so easy to do. If it doesn't solve your problem, no harm, no foul, and you'll be one step closer in the troubleshooting process. If anyone else asks you if you tried it, you can say yes and move on to other steps.

Everything I've read about ground loop interference says it can be any number of things and difficult to troubleshoot. If adjusting the gains works, you're one of the lucky ones to have found a simple solution.

Ok I'll try it tonight. Can't do anything from work but I promise to try it tonight. I'll gonna call Parasound and a HT dealer nearby to see what they say.

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[PENG]

A few more questions:

1)How far you have to be from the speaker to hear the buzz/hum?
2)Is the noise of lower frequencies such as 60, 120 Hz?
3)If you disconnect the input connection from the Yamaha's pre-outs, do you still get the same level of noise?

You mentioned the noise was not dependent on the volume position of the Yamaha, that indicates it is more likely ground potential (ground loop) related. Still, please answer the above questions and then we can go from there.

 

[Hetfield]

A few more questions:

1)How far you have to be from the speaker to hear the buzz/hum?
2)Is the noise of lower frequencies such as 60, 120 Hz?
3)If you disconnect the input connection from the Yamaha's pre-outs, do you still get the same level of noise?

You mentioned the noise was not dependent on the volume position of the Yamaha, that indicates it is more likely ground potential (ground loop) related. Still, please answer the above questions and then we can go from there.

I can hear the surround buzz sitting in my normal position. The mains I have to put my ear to them. I'm not sure of the frequency, sounds thin I think.
I called a HT store installer and they suggested what someone else did and that is the 2 prong adapter. Is that dangerous in any way? Is it gonna hurt equipment or kill a person?

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[AcuDefTechGuy]

There is a slight buzz sound from the speakers when no sound is present.

Yeah it's annoying me already. I won't be able to take his for more than a day. A buzzing like that ruins the experience.

So you went 10 years with an AVR (most likely 2-prong plug) and no ground hum noise, and now you have this annoying hum noise with your new amp (probably 3-prong plug), huh?

That's why I think even my Denon 5308CI AVR and AVP-A1HDCI pre-pro and only have 2-prong plugs, instead of the 3-prong plugs (3rd prong is the GROUND).

If it is a ground-loop hum, then the mentioned $2 cheater plug (turns a 3-prong into a 2-prong plug) would eliminate the hum noise. Electricians will disapprove and frown on this suggestion.

 

[Hetfield]

So you went 10 years with an AVR (most likely 2-prong plug) and no ground hum noise, and now you have this annoying hum noise with your new amp (probably 3-prong plug), huh?

That's why I think even my $5,500 Denon 5308CI AVR only has a 2-prong plug, instead of the 3-prong plug (3rd prong is the GROUND).

If it is a ground-loop hum, then the mentioned $2 cheater plug (turns a 3-prong into a 2-prong plug) would eliminate the hum noise. Electricians will disapprove and frown on this suggestion.

Yeah your right my reciever is only 2 prong so what's the big deal about using a cheater plug?
I think I'm gonna try the cheater plug and if it eliminates the hum then I'll get the hum x by ebtech. The cheater plug is only 5 bucks I think the guy said. I think this is my first course of action. Thanks for the post.

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[AcuDefTechGuy]

I called a HT store installer and they suggested what someone else did and that is the 2 prong adapter. Is that dangerous in any way? Is it gonna hurt equipment or kill a person?

I think something like a GFCI might help.

https://www.amazon.com/Tower-Manufacturing-30339005-3-Wire-Adapter/dp/B01N3S6CLN/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1496684517&sr=8-2&keywords=ground+fault+adapter

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Yeah your right my reciever is only 2 prong so what's the big deal about using a cheater plug?
I think I'm gonna try the cheater plug and if it eliminates the hum then I'll get the hum x by ebtech. The cheater plug is only 5 bucks I think the guy said. I think this is my first course of action. Thanks for the post.

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I think it's less than $2 at Walmart. I have 3 of them in my drawer that I no longer use (I used them once a long time ago with the GFCI ).

 

[Hetfield]

I think something like a GFCI might help.

https://www.amazon.com/Tower-Manufacturing-30339005-3-Wire-Adapter/dp/B01N3S6CLN/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1496684517&sr=8-2&keywords=ground+fault+adapter

So your with the cheater plug? Or am I missing something?

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[AcuDefTechGuy]

So your with the cheater plug? Or am I missing something?

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I used the cheater plug with the GFCI adapter some time ago when I was living in my previous house.

In my new house, I no longer have ground-loop problems. So I no longer use these cheater plugs.

 

[Hetfield]

I used the cheater plug with the GFCI adapter some time ago when I was living in my previous house.

In my new house, I no longer have ground-loop problems. So I no longer use these cheater plugs.

Ok thanks for the suggestion. Sounds pretty good for 10 bucks

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[AcuDefTechGuy]

Ok thanks for the suggestion. Sounds pretty good for 10 bucks

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My limited understanding is the grounding wire (3rd prong) prevents damage to humans (electric shock) and electrical components. In case of a short circuit, the 3rd prong grounding wire would trip the circuit breaker and prevents electric shock or electrical damage.

The $10 GFCI (Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter) will also trip the circuit breaker if there is an electrical overload and short circuit.

 

[Hetfield]

My limited understanding is the grounding wire (3rd prong) prevents damage to humans (electric shock) and electrical components. In case of a short circuit, the 3rd prong grounding wire would trip the circuit breaker and prevents electric shock or electrical damage.

The $10 GFCI (Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter) will also trip the circuit breaker if there is an electrical overload and short circuit.

Yeah that is why this intriguing. Still trips the circuit breaker and will take the cheater plug. When I unplugged the DirecTV receiver from the HDMI cable the hum was still there so I'd guess that isn't the issue, correct? I think it's the ground issue to the outlet. I think that's where the solution is.

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[AcuDefTechGuy]

Yeah that is why this intriguing. Still trips the circuit breaker and will take the cheater plug. When I unplugged the DirecTV receiver from the HDMI cable the hum was still there so I'd guess that isn't the issue, correct? I think it's the ground issue to the outlet. I think that's where the solution is.

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In my experience, it's usually all those wires and the electrical outlet.

One time it was the Cox Cable wire from the attic going into my room that caused the hum.

Pain in the butts to try to eliminate one wire at a time to see what's causing the hum. So I think most people just get a Cheater Plug and GFCI.

 

[Hetfield]

In my experience, it's usually all those wires and the electrical outlet.

One time it was the Cox Cable wire from the attic going into my room that caused the hum.

Pain in the butts to try to eliminate one wire at a time to see what's causing the hum. So I think most people just get a Cheater Plug and GFCI.

Yeah and the fact of what you posted before about 2 prong receiver everything was fine, introduce a 3 prong amp and now there is hum. That is a big clue huh? Also if I've been using a receiver with a 2 prong power cord then that third prong hang l have been a factor anyway, correct?

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[AcuDefTechGuy]

Yeah and the fact of what you posted before about 2 prong receiver everything was fine, introduce a 3 prong amp and now there is hum. That is a big clue huh? Also if I've been using a receiver with a 2 prong power cord then that third prong hang l have been a factor anyway, correct?

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I guess without that 3rd prong grounding wire, there can't be any Ground Hum (if it is ground hum).

But I have wondered why my Denon AVR-5308CI only has 2-prongs. I mean that thing has 150W x 9Ch, which I think is a lot of power.

My ATI 6012 amp is 60W x 12Ch, and it has a 3-prong plug.

 

[Hetfield]

I guess without that 3rd prong grounding wire, there can't be any Ground Hum (if it is ground hum).

But I have wondered why my Denon AVR-5308CI only has 2-prongs. I mean that thing has 150W x 9Ch, which I think is a lot of power.

My ATI 6012 amp is 60W x 12Ch, and it has a 3-prong plug.

All true. Seems the Denon should have 3 prong but I get Denon knows it causes issues so they said F-it. I'm running around like chicken without a head because of that ground.

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[AcuDefTechGuy]

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

All true. Seems the Denon should have 3 prong but I get Denon knows it causes issues so they said F-it. I'm running around like chicken without a head because of that ground.

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I have also never heard of anyone complaining of Ground Hum Noise with Receivers.

I was initially going to tell you to just return the amp and go back to Receivers for another 10 years.

 

[Hetfield]

That's pretty much me! I've got a HT store on one phone call, emails from Parasound coming in and out. It's exactly how I described, a chicken without a head. In the end when the hum goes away I will be left with one incredible amp. It is an awesome, awesome amp. Headroom is incredible.

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[PENG]

So your with the cheater plug? Or am I missing something?

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If the Parasound is designed to have a grounded chassis with a real 3 plug socket then you should not defeat it with a 3 to 2 prong adapter aka cheater plug.

GFCI is a ground fault circuit interrupter, it won't solve your problem. I assume ADTG is just kidding. It will work as a "life saver" though in case you have a ground fault so perhaps he meant use it in conjunction with the "cheater plug" but I will still say DO NOT do it.

Assuming yours a ground potential related issue, you should try to isolate the culprit first. Try the following steps.

0. As Pogre suggested, lower the HCA 1205's gain and report back the effect.
1. Separate the AVR from the HCA 1205A power amp completely, electrically and physically.
2. Plug in the power amp to a dedicated wall outlet that has nothing else connected to it.
3. Hook up the 2 front main speakers to the HCA 1205S's output binding posts.
4. Turn on the power amp and hear if you still get the buzz/hum.

If the buzz/hum is gone or substantially reduced, continue to the next step.

5. Reconnect the preouts of the AVR to the power amp but leave all inputs disconnected.
6. Again, listen for buzz and/or hums.

If all is still good, then reconnect the inputs, but only one at a time, and each time listen for buzz/hum. The one that triggers the buzz/hum is the culprit.