Need help with amplifier for Yamaha rxa 860

[lovinthehd]

Thats Not the article I was talking about now your really just trying your best huh..The article I'm talking about the one from Harmon..was sent to me through an email from Harman Kardon from one of the Engineers that works there. I receive that back in 2012 because I was inquiring about the 3600 amp AVR I had purchased. Again Rock on or Roll out I always say enjoy the music and the hobby man. But it can be found on the internet just research Harman Kardon but mostly Harman, it is a very old article and they Harman and Kardon were discussing all the aspects of audio with factual specs and just their thoughts on it between the two.

Post it up. Dr Toole was VP of Acoustics Engineering at Harman, fwiw and is one of the most respected guys in audio.

 

[lovinthehd]

Umm..still don't get your point of on this subject? Just try to give the OP sound advice..That's all that matters here. You are dead wrong about the the A3040, or just about any flagship AVR, he would notice an improvement over his 860..Much better DACs, bigger power supply, larger caps not to mention more power at the rail. If all you can come up with by taking out of my post was Damping Factor out of context I surely wouldn't be look to you for advice on gear.

Yes, that's why we don't point the OP towards damping factor as a concern. I've got both flagship and non-flagship avrs; the power difference is trivial and the DAC differences also. He's already got the 860, so dumping it for the 3040 in this case instead of working on a sub, or even his speakers, is not the advice I would offer but you don't need to agree with it. The sound quality differences are very minor compared to what he can get by spending money other than on a flagship avr. I didn't take your post out of context, you're the one who included it as a valid concern....between two avrs that have sufficient damping factor specs. You would really spend $800 on a different avr rather than adding an amp, as was the original question? Or a sub?

 

[lovinthehd]

The sound quality between the two units, 860, 3040.. is substantial.

Mike

How do you know?

 

[Pogre]

The sound quality between the two units, 860, 3040.. is substantial..it's is why it's a flagship..the 3040..He is wanting better sound quality from his mains, the a3040 will give him that. At higher volume levels even a add on amp wouldn't give him much more..adding a Sub will help..the total soundstage also..he still wouldn't gain better sound quality with just the sub with his mains. Only what he has his speakers hooked up too..lol...This can be argued till the cows jump over the moon. Again you took out context about the damping thing..Let me ask you this if it's that irrelevant of aspect than why you pick up on anything else from that post? Other than looking to try and prove a point for the sake of a disagreement. I believe you have your answer about damping factor and why I posted it. It's sure concerned you enough to come at me with it. lolo. I guess next you will be saying Emotiva, Monoprice, Krell, Pass Lab shouldn't be publishing Damping Factor specs either huh? Still don't get your point? Everything about audio gear is relevant and subjective. The rest I'll leave to the Lab rats with the white long coats they wear..lolo..

Mike

Okay, I'm still pretty new to the finer points of home audio. I ask sometimes rudimentary questions as there's a lot to learn and I like to learn.

Damping factor aside (I think we can all agree it's a pretty trivial spec anyway), I'm looking through the specs on the 860 and the 3040. I'm not familiar with Yamaha's newer stuff, but aside from a small bump in power they both look to be more alike than different. The 40w of extra headroom amounts to about 1.3db if I'm not mistaken and they're both in the Aventage line, which is Yamaha's upper tier.

I do disagree about a sub not adding sq to a system if it's a good subwoofer and integrated properly. IME, good bass is very underrated and a proper sub, set up properly will give you better sq. You take some demands off of your receiver, your main speakers aren't trying to play or reproduce frequencies they aren't designed to and possibly even a touch more headroom since the amp in your receiver isn't handling all of the bass frequencies?

It worked for me. IMO and IME, speakers and subs contribute far more per dollar than the amplification driving them. Would I like to own a flagship model? You bet! If I had the money would it go towards speakers, a sub or better amplification when what I have is sufficient? I'm getting my speakers and subs right before going after flagship receivers. Plus if power becomes an issue, the 860 has a full set of preouts and an amp can be added down the road.

Just my .02

 

[Pogre]

Thanks Porge, Lovinthehd made some very good valid points with the damping thing..lolo..but it sure got his attention.

Sure a Sub helps, adding a add on amp helps too..going with just a add on amp won't help out much either, sure he will have a better sound but at what? higher volume levels? I had those high out put amps..and it wasn't untill I changed out my AVR to a flagship did I really notice a overall better sound quality with the front mains..add on amps are superior to the amps in a flagship no doubt..but not everyone needs a 500, 1000 watt amp..If the OP went with a flagship first the sound quality would better with his main..then he could say...man I need a Sub to fill in the low end, and maybe I need a add on amp cause sometimes I like for my ears to bleed..but at normal listening levels and high listening levels my flagship kicks man..add on amps are a waste of money of you don't really need one.get better speakers 1st always I say...then A good flagship or integrated amp or separates..not for me the last one to much.

You make some convincing points as well, but moreso on the subjective side of things. Things that are difficult to quantify. You mentioned that you had done some A/B testing. Under what conditions? Was it double blind, level matched and all things equal?

Anything other than that is subject to bias based on you know which one you're listening to and have certain predetermined expectaions. The mind is funny like that. I'm not immune to it. I believe, in a true double blind test with level matching and all things equal (no eq or room correction on) you would struggle to tell which was which with any consistency. Double blinds are really about the best way to objectively determine if A sounds better than B.

 

[Pogre]

We didn't use the double blind test.
My Son and I just figured, turn the lights off and on would be good enough.Down here in the Buy-You state of Louisiana We do things a lil different, We don't have blindfolds, least not the double kind..

Mike

I get the feeling you're poking a little fun at me now. That's aight. I'm a big dog, but no, actual blindfolds aren't necessary, lol. Level matching tho, is pretty critical. If A was even ever so slightly louder than B, because of the way we perceive sound, "A" would win the shootout every time. That's why I think level matching with a spl meter is so important. The gain structure between amplifiers is rarely the same, sometimes even with same model/manufacturer and if you had any type of eq in play that will skew results also.

I mean, don't you wanna know if what you're telling us is really a quantifiable fact by using an objective test like a double blind? I'd like to do a double blind and see for myself, but I dont have a bunch of receivers laying around to experiment with or a switcher for immediate A/B comparisons. I think if you're going to reject or dismiss something you could at least demonstrate why or prove your point. There's no harm in trying it out. I think you might be surprised.

 

[Tankman]

I get the feeling you're poking a little fun at me now. That's aight. I'm a big dog, but no, actual blindfolds aren't necessary, lol. Level matching tho, is pretty critical. If A was even ever so slightly louder than B, because of the way we perceive sound, A would win the shootout every time. That's why I think level matching with a spl meter is so important. The gain structure between amplifiers is rarely the same, sometimes even with same model/manufacturer and if you had any type of eq in play that will skew results also.

I mean, don't you wanna know if what you're telling us is really a quantifiable fact by using an objective test like a double blind? I'd like to do a double blind and see for myself, but I dont have a bunch of receivers laying around to experiment with or a switcher for immediate A/B comparisons. I think if you're going to reject or dismiss something you could at least demonstrate why or prove your point. There's no harm in trying it out. I think you might be surprised.

No partner,Dapper Dan Factor...your a cool guy bro...and I haven't even met you in person..I just like this hobby..all the spec talk really takes the fun out of it for me...as for Lovinthehd..was (Neener) around with him..it was fun..I made up a lot of what I posted to him (Neener) just to see where it would go...lol...I really can care less who has what gear..or what spec is the most accurate...One day maybe I will meet up with Dapper Dan pass him a ice cold Miller lite and let him explain the spec side to me..other than that how your day is going? Me? I have Karen Carpenter spinning on the turntable with a ice cold brew..doesn't get much better than that...enjoying the music I am...

Mike

 

[Pogre]

No partner I am poking fun at myself..your a cool guy bro...and I haven't even met you in person..I just like this hobby..all the spec talk really takes the fun out of it for me...as for Lovinthehd..was joking around with him..it was fun..I made up a lot of what I posted to him just to see where it would go...lol...I really can care less who has what gear..or what spec is the most accurate...One day maybe I will meet up with Bob Carver pass him a ice cold Miller lite and let him explain the spec side to me..other than that how your day is going? Me? I have Karen Carpenter spinning on the turntable with a ice cold brew..doesn't get much better than that...enjoying the music I am...

Mike

Heh. Well you need to work on your delivery, because from all appearances you appeared to be serious. HD is a good guy and has given me a ton of guidance and has yet to lead me wrong. I do think Miller Lite is like drinking piss tho...

I, am doing great. Making some big life changes and enjoying my time on this planet. I'm listening to Chevelle's "This Type of Thinking Might Do Us In" right now. Not one of my favorite cd's of theirs, but I really like the band. One of their better cd's, "Vena Sera" is next in the queue. I'm just kicking back and enjoying the serenity and tranquility of my home. Well, with a little head banging thrown in there... I don't have to be back to work for another 6 or 8 months and life is good.

 

[lovinthehd]

From his post I have read on some of Threads he likes taking about specs a lot and he backs it up with links to some really great articles..But he thinks Miller Lite is piss or used piss..now that got me!..lolo..maybe one day I will run into him sit and have a shot of Black Jack whiskey with him and I'll let him explain the specs to me

But yeah them pair of speakers you and I talked about...I will shoot you a private email from here. The build is outstsnding...I will do like we talked about it is what I am looking for...send me a link again in my Inbox on here..I want to do a look see on the drivers again they are not the drivers that you find most mid level speakers..nice high quality driver's what I can see..


Mike

You haven't read enough of my posts or misunderstand the importance for the specs I'm citing perhaps. I leave the subjective breast beatings to others generally, tho. A good comparison between amps/avrs can be a difficult thing to do, especially if we first sat down with some nice potent northwest IPAs and some real nice single malt, even bourbon would suffice (but prefer nice peaty scotch). Last thing we'd probably talk about at that point would be specs or a DBT, but we might compare some vinyl and digital playback Or go out in the workshop and build a speaker or a sub or something.

 

[lovinthehd]

Umm..maybe, maybe not, I do like to keep some money in my pocket just in case I run into one of my 3exs wife's had four but one died. Poor thing may God rest her Soul..but then again if I die and run into #2 I am almost sure she going ask for money too...lolo

Mike

Wow. I can't even imagine more than one marriage, if that.

 

[Puglover]

Has anyone on here have actually owned a mid priced Yamaha and moved up to a higher end yamaha model that can speak of the differences if any that they have noticed? Was it worth it moving up? Would you do it differently if you had to do it again? Just curious if anyone can share their experience.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

You haven't read enough of my posts or misunderstand the importance for the specs I'm citing perhaps. I leave the subjective breast beatings to others generally, tho. A good comparison between amps/avrs can be a difficult thing to do, especially if we first sat down with some nice potent northwest IPAs and some real nice single malt, even bourbon would suffice (but prefer nice peaty scotch). Last thing we'd probably talk about at that point would be specs or a DBT, but we might compare some vinyl and digital playback Or go out in the workshop and build a speaker or a sub or something.

Now we Talkin!( Tim Reynolds voice). Just enjoyed me some of Deschutes finest this evening.(fresh squeezed IPA) Will be whizzing out some miller lite very soon. :Neener: sorry tankman...

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

@Pogre. I appreciate you trying to add some sobriety in here. Lol. I was wondering about the same things you were. Level matching, running ypao, running ypao consistently etc. I believe those kinds of things will affect the experience far more than being two rungs up on the food chain.

 

[lovinthehd]

William,

Ya know huh..What da hell is "Deschutes"?.Is it good for a hangover? Send some my way please? Cause after, Lovinthehd got done smacken me up with all dem facts..and den backin it up with all dem..statements by dem guys in dem Labs with dem long white coats with all dem diplomas got my head spinning too fast. You think that fancy German stuff will help my head?..Be careful,anything about Miller Lite beers..may set him off after me again..I was just trying to tell him I like his speakers his said he has..but I drop dat dam damping thing by accident in my post...But really William, dude is on top of his game when it comes to audio..he just shoot from the hip..Now what's that you drinking (fresh squeezed IPA)?..hope it's as tasty as dem Miller Lite ice cold beers...Good to see you kicking it around in here Sir William..sure hope you not related to that King William "Longshanks" from that movie Braveheart?..

Mike

Deschutes River is what it is named after, brewery from Bend, Oregon. Tasty stuff!

 

[Pogre]

William,

Ya know huh..What da hell is "Deschutes"?.Is it good for a hangover? Send some my way please? Cause after, Lovinthehd got done smacken me up with all dem facts..and den backin it up with all dem..statements by dem guys in dem Labs with dem long white coats with all dem diplomas got my head spinning too fast. You think that fancy German stuff will help my head?..Be careful,anything about Miller Lite beers..may set him off after me again..I was just trying to tell him I like his speakers his said he has..but I drop dat dam damping thing by accident in my post...But really William, dude is on top of his game when it comes to audio..he just shoot from the hip..Now what's that you drinking (fresh squeezed IPA)?..hope it's as tasty as dem Miller Lite ice cold beers...Good to see you kicking it around in here Sir William..sure hope you not related to that King William "Longshanks" from that movie Braveheart?..

Mike

I guessing you're about 8 Miller Lites deep right about now... lol

 

[Pogre]

Actually, I finished off about 10 of them or maybe more? umm..it's like breaking a mirror you could end up with seven years of bad luck if you remember how many..lol.I had my apartment door wide open up until 8:39 with my audio kicking around -15 dbs..with CD,a spinning for hours from rpm till 8:30pm..Than my Ex wife #4 called from the Holiday Inn ...she a front desk manager I think? asking me some things I really didn't what to say on the grounds that it might incriminate me. So I killed the music put on a blu ray.., Passengers with Jennifer Lawrence something about her? I hear she likes sofas a lot with no clothes on. I have seen the photos...Umm yep that what it is about her.. Then I ate one fried pork chop cuzz after all them tasty Miller Lites that's about all my stomach can handle right now. So now in here chilling out with you guys talking about audio.that is one sweet unit you have coming in..I checked out the new one above it.. just to look see if you made a good choice...and for the life of me,..can't think of one reason why I shouldn't get the one you picked come Oct..

So, just 'nother Monday night then? I thought you were more interesting than that!

Yeah, I've been looking at receivers for a few weeks now. That SR6011 sure ticks off all the right boxes for me. Glad I found it.

Has anyone on here have actually owned a mid priced Yamaha and moved up to a higher end yamaha model that can speak of the differences if any that they have noticed? Was it worth it moving up? Would you do it differently if you had to do it again? Just curious if anyone can share their experience.

I don't have any direct experience with recent Yamaha receivers or moving from mid tier to upper priced models, but if I had a choice, in your shoes, I'd get a good sub. You'll get the most bang for your buck out of it with better sq and better bass. Check out SVS, Hsu and Rythmik for a few. Hsu tends to be the best dollar value in terms of quality and power.

 

[Pogre]

Umm..Yamahas are good units good build and so on, the last Marantz owned was back in the late 70, 80..I was jumping between Pioneer, Realistic and Marantz , Yamahas and Sony ES didn't come into play till the late 80, 90..umm..Sub upgrade? umm.. nah..the would be last on my list. Speakers without doubt going to replace...come Oct.. Yamaha 3050 if I can get one new by Oct..if they are in 2nds? Accessories4less will be the place I can get it from. If not I will look at the unit you just picked up..won't even research it much..already knew about that unit...just haven't looked at Marantz lately..

I had a Yammy. Great receiver. My next one was a Denon, I liked what Audyssey did for my room and stuck with Denon. 6 in one, half dozen the other. For me it's mostly the RC software. Yamaha has excellent build quality.

A sub wouldn't be an upgrade. If I read the first page correctly, OP doesn't even have a sub right now. That's where the funds should go. Get a good one he won't want to upgrade in a year. Work on speakers next, then go for the super amp. That's just how I'd do it.

*Edit: Actually that's what I did. I got good speakers, then sub and just ordered the new amp. Took me almost a year to do it all.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I had a Yammy. Great receiver. My next one was a Denon, I liked what Audyssey did for my room and stuck with Denon. 6 in one, half dozen the other. For me it's mostly the RC software. Yamaha has excellent build quality.

A sub wouldn't be an upgrade. If I read the first page correctly, OP doesn't even have a sub right now. That's where the funds should go. Get a good one he won't want to upgrade in a year. Work on speakers next, then go for the super amp. That's just how I'd do it.

*Edit: Actually that's what I did. I got good speakers, then sub and just ordered the new amp. Took me almost a year to do it all.

I would go this route also. I have a Yamaha in my garage. Works well enough but I HATE the menus.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Deschutes River is what it is named after, brewery from Bend, Oregon. Tasty stuff!

Yes indeed! Lots of em out there but FSIPA is my #1. Obsidian stout is another of theirs I like.

 

[Puglover]

Umm..Yamahas are good units good build and so on, the last Marantz owned was back in the late 70, 80..I was jumping between Pioneer, Realistic and Marantz , Yamahas and Sony ES didn't come into play till the late 80, 90..umm..Sub upgrade? umm.. nah..the would be last on my list. Speakers without doubt going to replace...come Oct.. Yamaha 3050 if I can get one new by Oct..if they are in 2nds? Accessories4less will be the place I can get it from. If not I will look at the unit you just picked up..won't even research it much..already knew about that unit...just haven't looked at Marantz lately..

I thought about buying from them, I just am Leary about buying from anyone other than crutchfield. So you would buy from Accessorie4less?