Need help with amplifier for Yamaha rxa 860

[William Lemmerhirt]

Google search, pro amps vs consumer amps. You'll be readin' for a week! Lots of objective, and naturally, subjective articles.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Whaa..? Soft cell phones dropping? lol. You'll have to excuse me, my French is a l'il rusty.

I think it's Cajun? Lol!

 

[lovinthehd]

@Tankman if you didn't delete our first coupla private messages I told you about the Crowns there and what/how I use them. I have XLS1500s (gen 1) but they're pretty much gone now except for used, the 1502 replaced it in gen 2, same amp section, just a different color case, selectable sensitivity (.775V/1.4V, the 1500 just set for 1.4V), adjustment for the lights (I cover mine with black stuff), and a bit more to the crossover dsp built in and a funky 12V trigger thing. They have multiple types of inputs, 1/4", XLR and RCA type and the output for speakon or regular speaker wire/banana plugs. They integrate to a consumer setup pretty easily.

ps The base model 1000 or 1002 has a slightly worse snr spec, may as well start with the 1500 or 1502 or upper models as they all share the same snr spec. (signal to noise ratio). Likely only a concern for highly sensitive speakers, there could be some hiss if you have such (like better than 100dB sensitivity). I remember a guy on avsforum who had a nice room and setup and had no issues with the amps but for some hiss with his 108dB (maybe 110?) Avantgarde speakers. He had to look for a while for a quiet enough amp for him, believe he settled on a Benchmark unit.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

@Tankman if you didn't delete our first coupla private messages I told you about the Crowns there and what/how I use them. I have XLS1500s (gen 1) but they're pretty much gone now except for used, the 1502 replaced it in gen 2, same amp section, just a different color case, selectable sensitivity (.775V/1.4V, the 1500 just set for 1.4V), adjustment for the lights (I cover mine with black stuff), and a bit more to the crossover dsp built in and a funky 12V trigger thing. They have multiple types of inputs, 1/4", XLR and RCA type and the output for speakon or regular speaker wire/banana plugs. They integrate to a consumer setup pretty easily.

This is exactly why they're so easy, and great to use. Fwiw, my Yamaha is connected by 1/4 to ts. Less than 10 bucks. Ya know, the more I think of it, the less I can come up with a reason not to use pro amps.

 

[lovinthehd]

This is exactly why they're so easy, and great to use. Fwiw, my Yamaha is connected by 1/4 to ts. Less than 10 bucks. Ya know, the more I think of it, the less I can come up with a reason not to use pro amps.

Yeah I was scared off them by "audiophiles" for years until I tried the Crown XLS1500, then I kept buying them as I built subs as they worked well that way as well (still use one in a 2ch setup). The fan noise level is very low on these (IMO virtually non existent at any reasonable distance from them), from what I gather from various postings just about the lowest among the pro amps. The aesthetics aren't for everyone...I even hide mine a little bit .

Oh, and they also have some nice features a lot of consumer amps don't (other than the ones I already mentioned, which are already better than many consumer amps offer), level and clipping indicators and even a peak limiter to protect your speakers.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Yeah I was scared off them by "audiophiles" for years until I tried the Crown XLS1500, then I kept buying them as I built subs as they worked well that way as well (still use one in a 2ch setup). The fan noise level is very low on these (IMO virtually non existent at any reasonable distance from them), from what I gather from various postings just about the lowest among the pro amps. The aesthetics aren't for everyone...I even hide mine a little bit .

Oh, and they also have some nice features a lot of consumer amps don't (other than the ones I already mentioned, which are already better than many consumer amps offer), level and clipping indicators and even a peak limiter to protect your speakers.

Yep. This too.
Do you know if they ever addressed the 1000's? Seems like I remember the noise floor was high on them. I meant to say that earlier, just for awareness to anybody shopping.

 

[lovinthehd]

Yep. This too.
Do you know if they ever addressed the 1000's? Seems like I remember the noise floor was high on them. I meant to say that earlier, just for awareness to anybody shopping.

Amp sections/specs remained the same, both the 1000/1002 are >97dB and the 1500/1502 and up models >103dB (basis of spec isn't exactly clear, but a 6dB advantage for a few bucks is a no brainer to me).

 

[lovinthehd]

Lovinthehd, I know he makes some good points, but every now and then I really like to make my ears bleed and I hate harmonic Distortion I like to play my music Extremely Loud!..That's why I asked about Crown amps I really don't want to spend 1500 or more on a add on amp..I would rather put them buck to a pair of entry level audiophile speakers..and a good Flagship AVR and a good amp for not a bunch of coin..

Mike

Ya handy with stuff? Consider DIY (or even AIY) for subs/speakers to save some bucks. There are kits from diysoundgroup.com that are excellent. Following a good proven design ain't very hard and as long as you can live with your own finishing skills....

FWIW I paid an average of a bit less than $300 for each of my 1500s (first two a bit more, second two a bit less). Hard to beat. The 1500 should have enough power to make most speakers scream for mercy if not your ears, but depends what speakers of course and just how much ear bleeding . Didn't skip a beat replacing my Carvers.

 

[Tankman]

Google search, pro amps vs consumer amps. You'll be readin' for a week! Lots of objective, and naturally, subjective articles.

Will do that too William thanks for the suggestion..

 

[lovinthehd]

Lovinthehd..I am trying my best really to stay up with you and the others, not making excuses cuz I am old and getting ready to turn 59 and lost a step or 2, but this smartphone is really slowing me down with the edits and autocorrect not to mention getting kicked off the network from the cell towers at times,..in this apartment where I live its not big umm..maybe total living area 900ft maybe lil more..man that has always been one of my biggest passions was to build my own front mains. I know I could do the math, building them after all..I was a instrumentation Tech offshore in the oil field so no problem reading a ruler and using a project calculator..umm maybe if I get me some speaker trim plates would make it easier on me just so I don't have to waste a bunch of Mahogany wood or Birchwood cause those two grains of wood would be my first choice for speaker cabinets..

No worries, mate. Take your time. Can't imagine all the time you're doing this on a bloody phone. I do most of my posting from a laptop...are you using the mobile site or tapatalk?

Your better speaker cabinet materials would be MDF or plywood rather than a hardwood; you can always veneer with whatever you like, though. The kits from diysoundgroup can be the driver/crossover components and a baffle, or a complete box; they're cnc cut and easy to glue together. Look at MrBoat's project here for his diysoundgroup speakers http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/tempest-build.106100/page-5

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Lovinthehd, I am just now reading this post that how tough it is with this damn smartphone, no they are still in my box on my profile. I deleted some of my post cause some where pretty lame and irrelevant with a bunch of typos, and edits...

Hey man, I feel your pain. I mostly use Tapatalk in my phone. Sometimes it's super smooth. Sometimes I wanna drop it in the toilet...

 

[lovinthehd]

Maybe you're sharing just a bit more of yourself on the internet using Tapatalk but I prefer it, plus I do use it for another coupla forums, so it's a handy one app to open. It doesn't have all the features, and some are hidden by long press (of button), but it is easier to use/read in a few ways I think....

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Maybe you're sharing just a bit more of yourself on the internet using Tapatalk but I prefer it, plus I do use it for another coupla forums, so it's a handy one app to open. It doesn't have all the features, and some are hidden by long press (of button), but it is easier to use/read in a few ways I think....

I do like that it's streamlined, and can do multiple forums also. But I don't like that some features are not available. For example, I can't even thumbs up in AH while in other forums I can. Overall it's good though.

 

[lovinthehd]

I do like that it's streamlined, and can do multiple forums also. But I don't like that some features are not available. For example, I can't even thumbs up in AH while in other forums I can. Overall it's good though.

I've wondered if the thumbs up used on Tapatalk transfers over to the site, seems a few times where I thought I marked a post with a like I don't see it later....

 

[Tankman]

Heh. Well you need to work on your delivery, because from all appearances you appeared to be serious. HD is a good guy and has given me a ton of guidance and has yet to lead me wrong. I do think Miller Lite is like drinking piss tho...

I, am doing great. Making some big life changes and enjoying my time on this planet. I'm listening to Chevelle's "This Type of Thinking Might Do Us In" right now. Not one of my favorite cd's of theirs, but I really like the band. One of their better cd's, "Vena Sera" is next in the queue. I'm just kicking back and enjoying the serenity and tranquility of my home. Well, with a little head banging thrown in there... I don't have to be back to work for another 6 or 8 months and life is good.

He did piss first..(Neener)

 

[Buff]

No problem. Even if your Yamaha is on the low side with output voltage there are many outboard amps that accommodate that better than others in any case (look for a lower input sensitivity rating on outboard amps, for example the Crown XLS generation 2 amps have an adjustment of either .775V or 1.4V). I wouldn't worry about most subs either in that regard, but I'll bet the sub will be a more satisfying addition at this time. Keep in mind that lower bass frequencies react to rooms differently than higher frequencies, so your room dimensions have a lot to do with bass too....

I have TWO CROWN XLS1502 amps, in BRIDGE MODE, running my POLK rtia9s. I also have a POLK ps110 sub. The sub IS lacking. But is 2,100watts via the CROWN amps overkill?. I have EXCEPTIONAL hearing and was a first chair trumpet player for decades. I would my system-with that enormous wattage up against ALMOST any setup!. My goal wasn't getting loud-but those CROWNS can do it. I wanted a greater dynamic range and greater separation. My musician friends were amazed at my system (I also have a have a used used pre: Marantaz)

 

[Puglover]

I have TWO CROWN XLS1502 amps, in BRIDGE MODE, running my POLK rtia9s. I also have a POLK ps110 sub. The sub IS lacking. But is 2,100watts via the CROWN amps overkill?. I have EXCEPTIONAL hearing and was a first chair trumpet player for decades. I would my system-with that enormous wattage up against ALMOST any setup!. My goal wasn't getting loud-but those CROWNS can do it. I wanted a greater dynamic range and greater separation. My musician friends were amazed at my system (I also have a have a used used pre: Marantaz)

I bet it sounds incredible! I think I will get a svs sb 2000 since it's at the top of my budget. I listen to movies 60% and music 40%. I do live in apartment for now but I am looking for a house. I just don't want to limit myself on the subwoofer now just because I am in an apartment. I don't listen at high volume anyways. I would just like more punch on bass without having to crank up the volume on the 860 for now. When I move it's a different story.

 

[lovinthehd]

I have TWO CROWN XLS1502 amps, in BRIDGE MODE, running my POLK rtia9s. I also have a POLK ps110 sub. The sub IS lacking. But is 2,100watts via the CROWN amps overkill?. I have EXCEPTIONAL hearing and was a first chair trumpet player for decades. I would my system-with that enormous wattage up against ALMOST any setup!. My goal wasn't getting loud-but those CROWNS can do it. I wanted a greater dynamic range and greater separation. My musician friends were amazed at my system (I also have a have a used used pre: Marantaz)

Even without bridging I'd think they'd work just fine with those speakers, so maybe a little overkill. That sub's gotta go, though.

 

[Puglover]

Instead of adding an amplifier, is the Denon avrx 4300 to good a deal to pass up at this time? It would solve some of the problems that the 860 has per the review on it. I know a subwoofer purchase is in my future but the deal on the Denon sounds almost too good to pass up. Or should I keep the 860 and spend the$799 on a subwoofer? I am so Leary of the 860 based on all the specs that if I do buy a subwoofer I will wish I would have taken the deal on the Denon and saved enough on it to buy a subwoofer later down the road and have a much better system. Just don't want to miss a great opportunity. Should I walk off the ledge or come back!

 

[KEW]

Instead of adding an amplifier, is the Denon avrx 4300 to good a deal to pass up at this time? It would solve some of the problems that the 860 has per the review on it. I know a subwoofer purchase is in my future but the deal on the Denon sounds almost too good to pass up. Or should I keep the 860 and spend the$799 on a subwoofer? I am so Leary of the 860 based on all the specs that if I do buy a subwoofer I will wish I would have taken the deal on the Denon and saved enough on it to buy a subwoofer later down the road and have a much better system. Just don't want to miss a great opportunity. Should I walk off the ledge or come back!

What I would do:
1. Buy the Denon 4300
2. Do not use subs when listening to music.
3. Use Polk sub for action movies (not musical movies).
4. Buy better sub when wallet recovers.

1. The cost of amplification is going to get you close to the cost of the 4300 which has a pretty good amp section, so I would get the 4300 and kill 2 birds with one AVR!
2. Your speakers have 2 dedicated 8" woofers (not mid-woofers) and are -3dB at 36Hz (AFAIK, Polk does not exaggerate specs). Throw in a little room gain and not much music is going to demand much more bass. A sub is nice, but unless you listen to DUBstep, you won't be missing too much and I'd rather have clean with less bass than uneven bass to obscure your speakers.
3. For explosions, dinosaur stomps, etc; you really will not notice the failings of the Polk. Most LFE is about putting low frequency energy into your room for the effect. I believe the Polk does decent here. Understand that a better sub would sound better, but we will not recognize the correct or wrong harmonic balance of an explosion, etc.

But best thing to do is test #2 yourself by listening to music with and without the sub. The sub may be gratifying for sheer bass output, but if you listen for detail in the bass frequencies, I believe you will find that your speakers are better on their own. One caveat here is whether or not your amp has the power to let the Polk play bass as they should. Be sure they are playing in stereo and only the R&L channels are being powered by your AVR and they should be fine if their ratings are accurate (8ohms impedance and 91dB efficiency).