Trading Amplifier Quality for Features – A New Trend with A/V Receivers?

[gene]

I had a chat with the guys at my local Magnolia Theater yesterday about my upcoming HT receiver upgrade. I plan on making it a Christmas gift to myself. All the new models should be available by then also. During the conversation I asked about a rumor I had heard that Pioneer was possibly going to get out of the receiver making game, to which the reply was no one had heard of anything like that, but, had heard that within the next few years, Yamaha was going to cease making HT receivers.

Has anyone else heard this?

Be careful believe what any of those guys claim. Realize most of them will be willing to sell you cable snake oil in the same breath of making such unfounded statements. Yamaha receiver business is strong and sustained. I doubt Pioneer will stop making receivers too. I call BS on all of this!

 

[Mtenga]

In any case, I've been thinking the X7200 will be what I upgrade to this winter, (depending on the new model), so was wondering how well you like yours?

Don't know about the other guy but I like mine just fine. Replaced an Anthem 710 and sound is at least on a par, probably better, plus more features.

 

[Wes Campbell]

Is there a reason to purchase an amp that powers all 5 or 7 speakers with 300-500 watts? I feel like only the center, front left and right speakers need that much power. what about the surround speakers? Would I need multiple amps to provide different levels of power? Thank you guys so much for providing honest reviews in such a dishonest industry.

 

[lovinthehd]

Is there a reason to purchase an amp that powers all 5 or 7 speakers with 300-500 watts? I feel like only the center, front left and right speakers need that much power. what about the surround speakers? Would I need multiple amps to provide different levels of power? Thank you guys so much for providing honest reviews in such a dishonest industry.

300 to 500 watts per channel?! I would concentrate on the mains but still depends on the particular speakers and your spl goals.

ps just noticed how old this moldy guacamole thing is!!

 

[GranteedEV]

Is there a reason to purchase an amp that powers all 5 or 7 speakers with 300-500 watts? I feel like only the center, front left and right speakers need that much power. what about the surround speakers? Would I need multiple amps to provide different levels of power?

You are, in my opinion, spot on. I believe 60 watts output @ 8 ohm per channel is more than enough to power multiple surround speakers in most residential-sized living spaces, so the output stages of a typical rated ~100W @ 8 ohm surround receivers can handle surround duties with gusto.

The power is predominantly going to be used by your fronts and subwoofer, and should be distributed accordingly.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

You are, in my opinion, spot on. I believe 60 watts output @ 8 ohm per channel is more than enough to power multiple surround speakers in most residential-sized living spaces, so the output stages of a typical rated ~100W @ 8 ohm surround receivers can handle surround duties with gusto.

The power is predominantly going to be used by your fronts and subwoofer, and should be distributed accordingly.

Dude, Wow. Welcome back. Why MIA for almost two years?

 

[Tankman]

With new A/V receiver models being released by the major manufacturers every 8 months or so, consumers flock to them for promised improved performance and features. But are you really getting better performance with the newer models? Or are you trading amplifier quality for features? This article will be primer for what’s to come in our verification testing to better answer these questions. Stop and think if the model you currently have meets the performance vs feature balance that is right for your needs and how the newer so called “improved” model fits into that equation. All the features in the world can’t replace clean undistorted dynamics which we believe makes up most of the WOW and magic in the newer HD audio formats.

Discuss "Trading Amplifier Quality for Features – A New Trend with A/V Receivers?" here. Read the article.

They manufacturers, in my opinion have been "fleecing" on just what you are about to embark. In my opinion and just speaking for myself No AVR can give that "Wow" factor alone by itself so to speak for lack of a better word than I would choose. Outside of NADs flagship AVR unit for me anyways that flagship AVR is the only one that can do it with authority. A AVR set up right with the right speakers matched to it with a good sub and the proper room treatments can and do sound fantastic. But the "Wow" factor is a very subjective subject. But it should be a very interesting read when the studies are done and the numbers are crunched.
Mike

 

[Verdinut]

They manufacturers, in my opinion have been "fleecing" on just what you are about to embark. In my opinion and just speaking for myself No AVR can give that "Wow" factor alone by itself so to speak for lack of a better word than I would choose. Outside of NADs flagship AVR unit for me anyways that flagship AVR is the only one that can do it with authority. A AVR set up right with the right speakers matched to it with a good sub and the proper room treatments can and do sound fantastic. But the "Wow" factor is a very subjective subject. But it should be a very interesting read when the studies are done and the numbers are crunched.
Mike

I have a Marantz SR5010 and it gives that "WOW" factor and more dynamics than the flagship NAD T-763 which I used to own.
Please notice that I have obtained that kind of result driving DIY speakers which have a sensivity of 87dB @ 1W/1m in a 12.5 X 18 ft room.

 

[Tankman]

I have a Marantz SR5010 and it gives that "WOW" factor and more dynamics than the flagship NAD T-763 which I used to own.
Please notice that I have obtained that kind of result driving DIY speakers which have a sensivity of 87dB @ 1W/1m in a 12.5 X 18 ft room.

I am happy you found happiness with your Marantz AVR I hear from other owners of Marantz units that they are well built and have clean output. Carry on audio/video enthusiast well done the force is strong with you.

Mike

 

[Tankman]

Be careful believe what any of those guys claim. Realize most of them will be willing to sell you cable snake oil in the same breath of making such unfounded statements. Yamaha receiver business is strong and sustained. I doubt Pioneer will stop making receivers too. I call BS on all of this!

Shoots straight from the hip and hits bullseye!..Walks away and brops a bottle of snake oil on salesman's head.

Mike

 

[Tankman]

I have a Marantz SR5010 and it gives that "WOW" factor and more dynamics than the flagship NAD T-763 which I used to own.
Please notice that I have obtained that kind of result driving DIY speakers which have a sensivity of 87dB @ 1W/1m in a 12.5 X 18 ft room.

If I may ask, what was your deciding factors going with your Marantz over say Yamaha flagship? Did you research any of the other flagship units? and if so would like to know Your thoughts as to what swayed you to pick your Marantz unit.

Mike

 

[Verdinut]

If I may ask, what was your deciding factors going with your Marantz over say Yamaha flagship? Did you research any of the other flagship units? and if so would like to know Your thoughts as to what swayed you to pick your Marantz unit.

Mike

I chose the Marantz AVR after reviewing its specs and perusing a review from the Sound & Vision Mag on the SR5009. I assumed that the SR5010 most likely has the same electronics as the 5009 except for the addition of the Atmos and Wi-Fi features. The other brand on my list was Denon, but they didn't have any similarily priced AVR with pre-outs.

I was insisting on getting an AVR with pre-outs and 7.1 analog audio inputs to have full playback advantage through the ESS Sabre DAC on SACDs, DVD-As, DVDs and Blu-rays with the OPPO BDP-95 player.

As for the Yamaha brand, it did not figure on my projected list because of its past history of inflating power ratings on their amplifiers and due to the fact that they are still playing with power rating figures on several of their AVRs.

 

[Tankman]

I chose the Marantz AVR after reviewing its specs and perusing a review from the Sound & Vision Mag on the SR5009. I assumed that the SR5010 most likely has the same electronics as the 5009 except for the addition of the Atmos and Wi-Fi features.

I was insisting on getting an AVR with pre-outs and 7.1 analog audio inputs to have full playback advantage through the ESS Sabre DAC on SACDs, DVD-As, DVDs and Blu-rays with the OPPO BDP-95 player.

As for the Yamaha brand, it did not figure on my projected list because of its past history of inflating power ratings on their amplifiers and due to the fact that they are still playing with power rating figures on their AVRs.

Thank you for the info much appreciated. It's seems that more than Yamaha is going down that road of inflating power ratings, Onkyo, Sony have jumped on that bandwagon too. You did your research well Marantz units are well built and been around many years sure they have had some problems with issues but so have a lot of others some more than others. Again thank you for taking time out to reply to my post.

 

[Verdinut]

When comparing receivers with the same amplifier topology, weight is a very good indicator of power output. I can assure you some of the older models in my comparison had better capability of driving 4 ohm loads than some of the models you mentioned. As much as I like the amps of the RX-Z7, I'd take the amps in the DSP-A1 / RX-V1 anyday over them even though they are only rated to 110wpc vs 140wpc in the Z7.

Is weight always really a good indicator of power output? Maybe with the receivers.

With some pro amplifiers, especially the ones with have a switching power supply are much lighter and, even with the same Class AB technology, they can output as much power and even more current than many conventional heavier linear powered amplifiers.

For instance, QSC have a series of Digital Cinema Amplifiers which only weigh 21 lbs. They have five 2 channel models and two 4 channel models. Those units have been produced since 1998 and they are still going strong in many cinemas all across United States and Canada.

Their most powerful 2 channel model, the DCA 3422 (Class H) , has a power rating of 700 watts per channel at 8 ohms and 1100 watts/ch at 4 ohms. For the four channel models, one has a power rating of 170 watts/ch at 8 ohms and the most powerful one (Class AB) has a power rating of 250 watts/ch at 8 ohms. All the above ratings are with all channels driven and frequencies between 20-20 kHz with THD of less than 0.05%. They all weigh 21 lbs.

As a matter of fact, I've just bought a DCA 1222 amp which has a power rating of 200 watts/ch at 8 ohms (THD< 0.03% from 20-20kHz) and 325 watts/ch at 4 ohms (THD<0.05% from 20-20kHz). This amplifier has a voltage gain of 32db and requires only 0.9 volt/ch to attain full power at 4 ohms. In addition, its high-current design allows it to drive load impedances as low as 1.6 ohms.

It's an amazing amplifier which I am soon going to use to actively bi-amp one of my three front channels. Two more such amps will be ordered this year for bi-amplifying all 3 front channels, with my Marantz SR5010 as a preamp-processor.

In a previous post, I mentioned about this acquisition and several members have shown an interest. I will start a new thread once I have acquired the 3 amps, with my listening impressions. I am sure several audioholics will like to know more on this product, which is by the way built in the United States.

Cheers,

André