What is a $5000 Streamer doing that a Computer / DAC combo isn't

[slipperybidness]

I have always wanted to do a raspberry pi project since I first saw them years ago. I just never could match up a need with a project. This may be the right match. Is there a way to do HDMI out instead of USB?

Yup, BSA said it best.

But, I will mention, you can also convert HDMI to VGA and use a regular computer monitor. It is not plug-and-play, you have to go do some configs to get the output signal to play nice with the converter, but there are plenty of guides and it isn't difficult.

Anyway, if you had an old VGA monitor, it may be cheaper to use the converter, but then you will also likely be stuck to using the analog outs on the RPi (not ideal for audio applications). I did this for my arcade cab build.

My main point here is that the RPi is incredibly versatile device, and the support community is incredible!

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I think we should update this thread title to better represent reality as such:
https://www.stereophile.com/content/mark-levinson-no-519-audio-player-digital-streamerplayercddacpreamp

Brace yourselves : List price: $17000

 

[Irvrobinson]

I think we should update this thread title to better represent reality as such:
https://www.stereophile.com/content/mark-levinson-no-519-audio-player-digital-streamerplayercddacpreamp

Brace yourselves : List price: $17000

See post #14 - that's an old article. The price is now $20,000. Nice unit though. I'd buy for $5,000.

 

[lovinthehd]

See post #14 - that's an old article. The price is now $20,000. Nice unit though. I'd buy for $5,000.

Why?

 

[Irvrobinson]

Why?

Why what? Why is it nice, or why would I buy?

 

[lovinthehd]

Why what? Why is it nice, or why would I buy?

Why would you spend $5k on something like that? Seems a waste.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I'd might spend $500 (surely not 5k) on it and that's probably at the most. It would look nicer that the raspi contraption.
But function wise, I'd expect it would be a wash for me.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Why would you spend $5k on something like that? Seems a waste.

High-end ML equipment looks and feels differently, and generally has greatly superior ergonomics, to more pedestrian stuff. I've owned them before, a No39 CD player as a matter of fact, and I loved using that thing. Everything about it was a pleasure, and it was a nice digital preamp too. The 512 appears to be even better thought out, but at $20K it's a non-starter. ML lost its way for a while with rebranded cheaper stuff (like ATI amps), but it appears they've found their way.

I like nice stuff; I despise crap. You cheapskates can do whatever you want, but there's more to electronics than frequency response. If you don't think so, whatever, but I do.

 

[lovinthehd]

There's more to life than obsessions with slightly better specs in "high-end" gear as well. Your purchasing power doesn't relate with simple pricing ranges as to value.....I don't like crap either but I found little to no advantage to silly overpriced brands and that goes way beyond audio, although it is huge when it comes to audio expectations primed improperly on this kind of consumer nonsense. IMO, YMMV, etc....

 

[Irvrobinson]

There's more to life than obsessions with slightly better specs in "high-end" gear as well. Your purchasing power doesn't relate with simple pricing ranges as to value.....I don't like crap either but I found little to no advantage to silly overpriced brands and that goes way beyond audio, although it is huge when it comes to audio expectations primed improperly on this kind of consumer nonsense. IMO, YMMV, etc....

You weren't listening. Specs are not the determining factor, no more than they are with a Rolex. I'm not a value buyer, but you obviously are.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

but there's more to electronics than frequency response. If you don't think so, whatever, but I do.

I agree that there is there aura of good quality, nice materials, fit and finish stuff. I think these qualities do command extra. The question is how much extra. $500 ? $1000, $4000? For me it's exactly like Rolex or other luxury watches. All you need to accurately know very precise time is your smartphone, Watch, especially a mechanical wristwatch is a fashion accessory and at best status symbol.

Everyone in different income brackets have their answers, but I recently learned that my client , a multimillionaire btw, bought himself a Volvo and very happy about.
Just because he could afford 10 Bentleys, doesn't mean he'd ever even consider such, because he's a value buyer.

Calling people "cheapskates" is just as offensive as calling you a squanderer

 

[Irvrobinson]

Calling people "cheapskates" is just as offensive as calling you a squanderer

Guilty as charged. I was wrong.

 

[Bucknekked]

For things I don't have much emotional or cerebral investment in, I don't pay much attention to anything beyond the price or costs. That includes most of the flotsam and jetsam that comes in my front door and exits out the trash can. For commodities that makes me a cost conscious buyer. Price matters.

For things I have an emotional or cerebral investment in, like my hobby items and other purchases that affect lifestyle, I am a value buyer. That means I'm looking for the best value that matches my internal view of what's satisfying. Cost or price is secondary or not a concern at all within certain ranges. I forget the price pretty quickly. But I remember and savor the value, or the reason I bought the thing, for as long as I have it.

To sum it up: for things I care about I'm looking at the value (to me) of the item. Price only comes in if its out of line or somehow it fouls up the universe by pissing off my wife. I understand what both Irvrobinson and BSA are saying in their viewpoints/opinions. Given what an item is, I can go either way.

Why let dollar signs rule your life when it comes to enjoyment? On the other hand, why waste what dollars you have if you don't need to? Value, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. And your Mastercard balance.

 

[jinjuku]

You weren't listening. Specs are not the determining factor, no more than they are with a Rolex. I'm not a value buyer, but you obviously are.

Depends on what one defines as value... I have complete control of my system via a nice tablet that just happens to be affordable.

98% of my interaction is via that tablet. Only when I'm adding to my library is my other 2%. I really don't know, for any amount of $$, the experience can be better than what I've currently obtained for $1300 in componentry.

Now I've had hands on a lot of stuff but not everything, but when something is well thought out and work, well no matter how much $$ you want to throw at it you won't get any ROI.

So I spend just enough to get a good experience and then it's time to stop throwing Benjamins.

 

[Bucknekked]

Depends on what one defines as value... I have complete control of my system via a nice tablet that just happens to be affordable.
98% of my interaction is via that tablet.

jinjuku
I too use a tablet (a very old 2nd generation ipad) to control my music system most of the time. When I get set in the recliner for some tunes, I rarely use anything else. I enjoy it immensely. I have a brand new ipad air2 with the retina screen in my office. But, it doesn't handle the remote control duties any better than the ancient and venerable 2nd gen ipad does.

Nice to know there are other tablet users out there. (note: the music system still exists and that's what's doing all the work. The tablet just handles my UI ) Most of the time, I play music so the tablet is a great, simple and inexpensive UI/remote control.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Today I felt like using airplay. I configured my iPad and my libreelec /kodi to support it and it works fine. I fired up my tidal client (free trial) and used airplay to stream music to kodi.

 

[Bucknekked]

Today I felt like using airplay. I configured my iPad and my libreelec /kodi to support it and it works fine. I fired up my tidal client (free trial) and used airplay to stream music to kodi.

I am still in my 30 day free trial of Tidal. it DOES NOT have a remote. At least not at my house.
So far, I am pretty impressed with the quality of the music. I did not think I would see any difference at all and I'm sad to say that my humble old ears think Tidal is a sonic upgrade over other streaming sources.
The worst feature so far about Tidal is that it doesn't have a remote. I can't use an ipad/tablet to control it. I have to use a freakin' keyboard and mouse. So primitive.

Sounds good though. BSA, what's your listening experience been with Tidal? I wanted to hate it because its more money and I think Jazee and his crowd are schmucks. But so far, I'm liking it against my will.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I installed tidal app on iPad and streaming from ipad to kodi, so ipad is my remote. Sound quality is okay, but I'm much less impressed with music selection. Spotify has several orders more

 

[sterling shoote]

Today, for the most part, I use an Airport Express device to get Airplay wireless from either iTunes library on computer or iPhone 7 plus to my pre/pro. With Airport Express, a $ 100 investment, that sends either a S/PDIF optical signal at 16/44.1 or an analog signal decoded by the Airport Express at 16/44.1 from any bit and bite rate it receives, I can enjoy my digital music library with apparently no loss in sound quality from the same selection played from CD, and SACD. Therefore, I just cannot see any point to a device like the Mark Levinson or even the $ 650 Marantz NA-6005. I have however considered purchasing an OPPO UDP-205 for streamer functions, since it can do something the other streams appear not to do, carry multi-channel information.

 

[Bucknekked]

I installed tidal app on iPad and streaming from ipad to kodi, so ipad is my remote. Sound quality is okay, but I'm much less impressed with music selection. Spotify has several orders more

BSA
I don't know why I didn't think of this sooner, but I have both Spotify and the Tidal 30 day HIFI trial currently on my mac mini. Why not compare them in some A-B testing of my own? Granted, it won't be a blind test or a double blind test or anything close. It would probably be construed as the blind testing the blind. That might be an insult to vision impaired people though.

So I spent an hour or so last night doing simple A-B listening to the same tracks via Spotify and Tidal. I didn't discover what I thought I would discover. What follows is pure, 100% unadulterated opinion. There isn't a fact from here on out. YMMV, etc etc.

My expectation bias was firmly set towards Tidal because my initial impressions when I fired up Tidal was that it sounded better. That was what I thought I would confirm. After about an hour running about 10 to 12 different songs, I have to say I couldn't tell the difference between them at all.

Tidal has the MQA stuff too: the super duper capital M's that appear on the HIFI trial. I fired up a couple of those and compared them to the 320kbps versions on Spotify. Back and forth. Again, my expectation bias was firmly set that the Tidal M's would sound better because they really sounded great when I first tried them. Again, after about 20 minutes of back and forth, I couldn't really tell any difference between the 320kbps stuff and the M stuff that's Tidal's claim to fame.

In my simple addled mind I expected Tidal to outperform Spotify in sound quality. I did not hear that. They appeared to be indistinguishable in sound quality. There are some nice features on Tidal. The Album and Song level metadata is great. Its like having extensive and complete liner notes right on the music. I was really impressed with that. But, you can't hear metadata. You don't listen to it. Is metadata worth another $10 bucks a month?

And on Spotify's side of the ledger, they have a much more complete and extensive catalog. More songs. More artists. More music. That you can listen to and hear.

For this simple addled mind, I'm going to end my free trial with Tidal simply because its $20 bucks a month compared to Tidal at $10 for what is exactly the same sound quality to my ears.

(NOTE: No other AH members opinions were damaged or injured in the creation of this post)