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Where Do I Compromise?

  • Thread starter Thread starter ChGr
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ChGr

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Mar 21, 2017
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I’m building a music/HT system (60/40 split) and down to deciding on the processor, subs and amps. Looking at somewhat higher-end and slightly less high-end equipment. If you were to compromise or cut corners in one of these categories in order to save money, which would it be? My last system lasted 15 years and I expect this one to, as well.

My potential comparisons:

Processors: McIntosh MX122 v. Marantz AV8802A v. Anthem AVM 60. Potential savings of $4,000

Amp: Planning on getting a MAC 2-ch for the mains, but as a supporting amp for the surrounds and Zone 2, looking at McIntosh MC8207 v. Outlaw 7700. Potential savings of $3,750.

Subs: 2) JL Audio Fathom F113 v. 2) SVS SB16-Ultra v. 2) SVS SB13-Ultra. Potential savings of $6,000.

Or the converse, in which of these three categories would you definitely not compromise?

I really appreciate the feedback.
 
Skip the McIntosh processor and McIntosh amp. Only buy them if you like pretty green lights. Practically speaking, they are unlikely to be any better than the other brands you mentioned. As for the subs, that is a no-brainer: get the SB16 Ultras. More advanced and more displacement than the others.
 
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Outlaw and Monoprice amps are not exactly same as ATI amps, but they could've fooled people smarter than me if labels were removed from both, if you know what I mean ;)
Agree with shadyJ, Marantz AV8802A is most advanced out of the bunch.
As for subs, SB16-Ultra very VERY serious sub and very few could play with it, just to get you thinking alternatives here's a few:
http://jtrspeakers.com/captivator-s1.html
https://www.seaton-sound-forum.com/post/product-listing-availability-status-and-pricing-3364736
Specifically SubMersive HP+ with dual 15" drivers and 2.4kw rms power amp.
 
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What are the speakers/speaker configuration you decided on? I'm on the Marantz/Outlaw/SB16 (maybe even PB16) side of your proposed choices, but there are so many worthy others out there as well...as far as sub for that kind of money I'd just build my own but if buying again there are so many choices out there besides just these (e.g. Seaton, JTR or Deep Sea Sound). Are you limited to a particular sub size/footprint? Will two subs be sufficient? What's the details for the room this is all going in?
 
SF Venere family all the way around: S, 2.0 and Center. Coming off Paradigm Studio 80s, 20s, C with Servo 15 that I thought sounded muddy. Bear in mind that yes, I am a noob at this, and although I can appreciate good sound I'm really going to have to spend some time learning to tune this stuff. Simplicity of the processor and subs will be a big factor. Both JL and SVS seem to have software that will help me tune.

Room is a 20x20x20 living room with large openings on two walls - not dedicated HT. The lack of impact from the Servo 15 is my main reason for considering 2 subs. My thought was that I'd use the front sub while listening just to music and turn on the second in the back of the room for movies.

Interesting comment but no, I won't be building a sub (or subs), although I have 'this ultimate set of tools'. PB16s are out of the question - too big and likely too strong. Also interesting is your question, lovin, about whether two subs are sufficient. In another forum (yes, I cross-posted) almost to a poster they asked if I really need two subs.

Thanks again.
 
I'm coming in a bit late, but I definitely agree with the others above about skipping the McIntosh processors and amps, and going with the SVS subs to get substantial savings.
ChGr said:
SF Venere family all the way around: S, 2.0 and Center. Coming off Paradigm Studio 80s, 20s, C with Servo 15 that I thought sounded muddy.
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You didn't say whether you have already purchased the Sonus Faber speakers, but another way you can save money is by compromising on the rear channel speakers. However, do not compromise on the front three speakers. I don't know how much you might save by doing that, compared to the substantial savings you will get on the processors, amps, and subs.
ChGr said:
Room is a 20x20x20 living room with large openings on two walls - not dedicated HT. The lack of impact from the Servo 15 is my main reason for considering 2 subs. My thought was that I'd use the front sub while listening just to music and turn on the second in the back of the room for movies.
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The very long wavelengths of bass sound reflect off of walls, ceilings, and floors and interact in a major way with the primary sounds coming directly from the speakers. These interactions can create additions and cancellations that may appear in your listening room in fixed standing patterns, called standing waves or troughs. You can locate where these standing patterns are in your room and adjust where you place the sub woofer and/or your listening position to avoid listening where the standing troughs are located. If you're lucky, these positions are practical. More often, however, they require awkward furniture arrangements or are impractical.

The main benefit from using two subs instead of one is not the extra loudness you get. If placed in different locations, each sub will generate a different set of standing waves and troughs. Their placement will complement each other's sound. In that sense, you might do better with two smaller (12") subs in different locations, than with one larger sub.
 
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I agree with saving some dough on amplification. You can do just as well for a lot less.

As for subs, I have a soft spot for SVS (but not the wallet). The PB16 Ultra is a beast and I think it even looks cool. If I had the money...

Swerd is right that you can get similar performance for less with some other brands though. It's worth it to do some more homework.
 
ChGr said:
SF Venere family all the way around: S, 2.0 and Center. Coming off Paradigm Studio 80s, 20s, C with Servo 15 that I thought sounded muddy. Bear in mind that yes, I am a noob at this, and although I can appreciate good sound I'm really going to have to spend some time learning to tune this stuff. Simplicity of the processor and subs will be a big factor. Both JL and SVS seem to have software that will help me tune.

Room is a 20x20x20 living room with large openings on two walls - not dedicated HT. The lack of impact from the Servo 15 is my main reason for considering 2 subs. My thought was that I'd use the front sub while listening just to music and turn on the second in the back of the room for movies.

Interesting comment but no, I won't be building a sub (or subs), although I have 'this ultimate set of tools'. PB16s are out of the question - too big and likely too strong. Also interesting is your question, lovin, about whether two subs are sufficient. In another forum (yes, I cross-posted) almost to a poster they asked if I really need two subs.

Thanks again.
Click to expand...

Yes, some subs have some dsp for room setup/correction, haven't really looked at what those two offer or what they offer for multiple sub setups; I use a minidsp and a measurement mic/REW in addition to Audyssey (XT32 like the Marantz has) in my avr for my four subs in a large living room and open space of about 6500 cuft. Just using the SubEQ/XT32 in the Marantz can do a pretty good job and it is as simple as placing the measurement mic 7 more times in an area surrounding your prime listening position/first measurement point.

That's a huge living room, 8000 cuft plus space open to other rooms, plus your room is a cube which creates further acoustic challenges for sub frequencies. DIY can be a good way to go for further savings but if you don't want to use the "ultimate set of tools"....four subs in a space that large isn't all that unusual, and would probably be a benefit. It is about a smoother frequency response at more seating positions, rather than about "too big and likely too strong". The best subs are large, that's just physics; too strong or overpowering concerns aren't valid if you do a proper job of calibrating them in your system (they'll be matched to the speakers in terms of level so any overpowering is because you want to set it up that way by boosting their levels or similar).

What is the other forum? Guessing one more 2ch based from the comment....
 
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I have demoed some McIntosh stuff -- skip that route.
 
lovinthehd said:
What is the other forum? Guessing one more 2ch based from the comment....
Click to expand...

No, AVSForum, believe it or not. I would think that 'movie-centric' fans would be big sub proponents.
 
Either he means rythmik, or I think velodyne used to make one called that.
 
Yes, Paradigm. Any shady is right - back then it was a 'beast' - doesn't compare spec-wise to what's out there today.
 
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