Yamaha RX-A860 AVENTAGE 7.2 Atmos/DTS:X A/V Receiver Review

[PENG]

I'm running some KEF Reference 2s (4 ohms/90db) and a KEF 100c up front (6 ohms/90db). Will the 860 have enough to power these? My room size is medium and they're paired with a HSU VTF-3 MK 2 subwoofer and 6.5" two way ceiling speakers in the rear.

Thanks.

I highly doubt that, but need to know:

- sitting distance to speakers.
- spl you need at your sitting position.
- room dimensions, LXWXH, you did say medium size but did you mean medium by THX standard?

Edit: You meant Reference Model 2 right? There is no such thing as KEF Reference 2.

 

[3db]

Crap, wish I would have known how much these things struggle on power output before I bought this. I am coming from the old RX-V3800. That is now going to the office setup. I was already planning on using the pre-outs to power the fronts with an amp, but after seeing the meek 35 watts driving all the channels, I now have a Emotiva A-500 arriving on Wednesday. This combo should work well.

I own an RX-V1800 driving PSB Image series speakers that also dip well into 4ohms running them full range sometimes when listening to 7 channel stereo (running on the treadmill at those moments ) and my AVR delivers the power with no hint of strain or wanting to go into protection mode. The ACD test is one of those tests that I put very litte value in because it only determines how conservative the manufacturer is with it's protection circuit, nothing more. It doesn't validate anything else. If you look at the bench results for the original RX-A3000 here at Audioholics, its all ACD test scored fairly low but its 2 channel performance (enen Gene mentioned at how this test held no value in the article) bested an Emotiva power amplifier. My point is that just because the RX-A 860 tested poorly doesnt mean that the upper models lack power. Let me ask you this; before reading some of the misinformation in this thread, have you noticed a lack of power from your RXV3800? I'm betting the answer is no.

 

[asahitoro]

I highly doubt that, but need to know:

- sitting distance to speakers.
- spl you need at your sitting position.
- room dimensions, LXWXH, you did say medium size but did you mean medium by THX standard?

Edit: You meant Reference Model 2 right? There is no such thing as KEF Reference 2.

Thanks for the reply,

Yes, I meant KEF Reference Model 2s.
http://www.kef.com/uploads/files/en/museum_pdf/90s/Reference_Series_Models_One_to_Four_Installation_Instructions.pdf

-my sitting distance is about 10-12ft
-not sure on spl but we want it to get loud enough especially for music listening
-room is about 20x15x15ft

Should I step up to a 1060+? I'd rather not if the 860 is sufficient. My previous receiver was an Arcam AVR300. I'm not looking to spend that much this time and I want BT/WiFi.

Thanks again.

 

[PENG]

Thanks for the reply,

Yes, I meant KEF Reference Model 2s.
http://www.kef.com/uploads/files/en/museum_pdf/90s/Reference_Series_Models_One_to_Four_Installation_Instructions.pdf

-my sitting distance is about 10-12ft
-not sure on spl but we want it to get loud enough especially for music listening
-room is about 20x15x15ft

Should I step up to a 1060+? I'd rather not if the 860 is sufficient. My previous receiver was an Arcam AVR300. I'm not looking to spend that much this time and I want BT/WiFi.

Thanks again.

If loud means as loud as what you hear in a THX movie cinema then you should go for the 2060. The Arcam AVR300 is very sweet sounding but not that powerful. So if you have been happy with it driving your speakers then the 2060 should be fine, otherwise you may have to add an external amp for the L/R/C channels.

 

[asahitoro]

If loud means as loud as what you hear in a THX movie cinema then you should go for the 2060. The Arcam AVR300 is very sweet sounding but not that powerful. So if you have been happy with it driving your speakers then the 2060 should be fine, otherwise you may have to add an external amp for the L/R/C channels.

Thanks again,

So you still think the 860 (or 1060) will be lacking in my application? The Arcam always had enough power for our tastes.

 

[PENG]

Thanks again,

So you still think the 860 (or 1060) will be lacking in my application? The Arcam always had enough power for our tastes.

If the Arcam can do it, then the 1060 should be able to do it too but not the 860. I would bite the bullet to get the 2060 because in theory the 2060 should be more comparable to the AVR-300 in terms of sound quality, just in theory....

 

[asahitoro]

If the Arcam can do it, then the 1060 should be able to do it too but not the 860. I would bite the bullet to get the 2060 because in theory the 2060 should be more comparable to the AVR-300 in terms of sound quality, just in theory....

Thanks again,

Now I'm even thinking of jumping to the 3060. What's the big real world difference in the DACs between the 1060/2060/3060? Because of room limitations, I won't be needing more channels outside of my current 5.1 unless I add some front effect speakers so I don't think the 3060 will help me there.

 

[PENG]

Thanks again,

Now I'm even thinking of jumping to the 3060. What's the big real world difference in the DACs between the 1060/2060/3060? Because of room limitations, I won't be needing more channels outside of my current 5.1 unless I add some front effect speakers so I don't think the 3060 will help me there.

If I remember right, 1060/2060 have the same ESS9006 DAC chip but the 2060 and 3060 may have better op amps and definitely stronger power supplies. The 3060 has the ES9016, same as those in the prepro CX-A5100.

Even the 1060 appears to be a major jump from the 860.

 

[PENG]

Thanks again,

Now I'm even thinking of jumping to the 3060. What's the big real world difference in the DACs between the 1060/2060/3060? Because of room limitations, I won't be needing more channels outside of my current 5.1 unless I add some front effect speakers so I don't think the 3060 will help me there.

Go for it then, otherwise you may not be happy, if only due to expectation bias.

 

[asahitoro]

Well I picked up an 860 for a great deal and spotted a used Emotiva UPA-2 (2 channel amp) that I might add. I could have both together for under $1k. Is upgrading just the L/R channels enough or do I need something 3+ channels? My 100c center is 90db/6 ohms. I'm more concerned about having enough power for music with my KEFs and relying on the 860s amps for HT duty. I don't ever plan on going with more than 5.1.2 if I even do that (currently 5.1).

Thanks again for the input.

 

[PENG]

Well I picked up an 860 for a great deal and spotted a used Emotiva UPA-2 (2 channel amp) that I might add. I could have both together for under $1k. Is upgrading just the L/R channels enough or do I need something 3+ channels? My 100c center is 90db/6 ohms. I'm more concerned about having enough power for music with my KEFs and relying on the 860s amps for HT duty. I don't ever plan on going with more than 5.1.2 if I even do that (currently 5.1).

Thanks again for the input.

Have you tried entering in the numbers to the linked calculator to find out the spl you can get from the rated power output of the 860 yet?

http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

 

[asahitoro]

I just did and it looks like I'll be pushing 106-110db. If that is accurate I should be OK without an extra amp. I'm going to wait on it and use the 860 as is. If it can't keep up with music with my KEFs, I'll look into adding an external 2ch? amp.

Thanks again.

 

[PENG]

I just did and it looks like I'll be pushing 106-110db. If that is accurate I should be OK without an extra amp. I'm going to wait on it and use the 860 as is. If it can't keep up with music with my KEFs, I'll look into adding an external 2ch? amp.

Thanks again.

That sounds right, but the RX-A860 is not a good one to use with external power amps due to its limited pre-out level. So unless you are sure you don't need an external amp, you should consider a higher model, at least the RX-A1060.

 

[asahitoro]

Yeah I saw that about the preouts. I need to read the review again but I thought there were amps that would work well with it if needed. I already bought it and got it for about $300 less than the best price I could find on the 1060. If I didn't get the 860, I would have skipped it and went to the 2060. I didn't see a $300 difference between the 860 and 1060.

Does anyone know what I need to target in terms of gain structure that Gene is referring to in his review? What capabilities would I need if I choose an external amp later?

Thanks.

 

[PENG]

Yeah I saw that about the preouts. I need to read the review again but I thought there were amps that would work well with it if needed. I already bought it and got it for about $300 less than the best price I could find on the 1060. If I didn't get the 860, I would have skipped it and went to the 2060. I didn't see a $300 difference between the 860 and 1060.

Does anyone know what I need to target in terms of gain structure that Gene is referring to in his review? What capabilities would I need if I choose an external amp later?

Thanks.

According to Gene:

"At 1Vrms, the output looks much cleaner. If you're planning on using external amplification with the RX-A860, look for a power amplifier with a relatively high voltage gain (29dB or greater) so that it can achieve full rated power below where the preamp outputs of the RX-A860 starts clipping. For example, a 200-watt amplifier with a voltage gain of 29dB will reach its rated power at around 1.4Vrms."

So there are choices, you just have to make sure they have 29dB gain, and higher if you need more than 200WPC. There is good reason why it is easier to get deals on the 860, there is always a significant gap between the RX-AXXX and AXXXX series.

I did recommend the 2060 from the beginning because it is more comparable to your Arcam, but it's yours money.

 

[asahitoro]

Yeah, if it doesn't workout, I'll put it in the bedroom and get a 2060/3060 or something better. I have a feeling it will work ok. My Arcam never needed to be turned up past 3/8-1/2 to give us the sound we needed.

Edit: I just noticed the Emotiva has a gain of 32db (185 watts/4 ohms). Still debating just buying it since I can get it for $200 bringing my total under $900 and still probably sounding better for music than a 3060. It's not so much about spending the money then it is buying more than I need. Over the years I have dumped thousands into more than I need or for features I'll never use.

 

[PENG]

It will just give you maybe 1.5 to 2 dB more headroom than the 860 but the 2060/3060 is more powerful than the upa-2 for real world use.

It is not just about power, the AVR-300 is capable of really high quality sound. I know the feeling about wastage. Just too bad Yamaha does not offer a 5.1 and 7.1 avr with the same robust DAC, amp section and power supply found in the 3060.

 

[asahitoro]

I do like the sound of my Arcam but wanted all the BT/WiFi/etc. that the Yamaha gives me. I'll keep an eye out for a deal on an Arcam amp to add later down the road.

Thanks for your help.

 

[PENG]

I do like the sound of my Arcam but wanted all the BT/WiFi/etc. that the Yamaha gives me. I'll keep an eye out for a deal on an Arcam amp to add later down the road.

Thanks for your help.

I am sorry to call a spade a spade, from that Arcam to the 860 is major downgrade, setting aside features and power, adding any power amp down the road will only fix the power side of the equation.

I do understand you have to get a new AVR in order get the features you need.

 

[everettT]

That sounds right, but the RX-A860 is not a good one to use with external power amps due to its limited pre-out level. So unless you are sure you don't need an external amp, you should consider a higher model, at least the RX-A1060.

Unless you want to invest in something like the art clean box , peng has giving you the best advice.