Marantz SR7010 phono stage?

[vsound5150]

Hi all,
Does anyone have specs for the phono preamp in the SR7010 or anything good or bad about it? I'm thinking to buy a phono preamp for my turntable if it will improve sound quality maybe a preamp from the 70's like a Sansui, Kenwood, Technics, etc..

 

[Swerd]

To be honest, if you compare phono preamps in a recent AVR to older ones, I doubt if you’ll notice anything different. These have been made ever since the late 1950s or early 1960s, and if I’m correct, they are a standard design.

My experience has been limited to three different phono preamps, and I never noticed a significant difference among any of them. One was an old phono preamp built into a 1970’s era stereo receiver (Marantz 2230), an AVR (Denon AVR 1800 bought in 2000) with built-in phono section, and finally, an inexpensive (about $60) separate phono preamp, an Audio Technica PEQ3 which I still use. It is difficult to switch back and forth among them, so I can't say for certain that they don't sound identical, only that they do not sound different enough to worry about.

I have a moving magnet cartridge with a typical MM output voltage on my turntable.

 

[PENG]

Same specs as their top dog AV8802A, also same as Denon's. As Swerd noted, don't expect much different among them.

 

[Verdinut]

I would think that the Marantz phono preamp has a good performance.
If you have the opportunity to compare it with the sound of an external preamp which is known to be an excellent performer, that could reassure you.
However, if you are still in doubt and decide to look for a vintage preamp, may I suggest the Hitachi HCA-8300 which could also be part of your list. This preamp has an excellent performance, I can tell you, I own one. It was also well rated by expert reviewers when it was released.

 

[vsound5150]

Thanks all for the info. so it sounds like it's not worth going to an external phono preamp. One concern I had was when I researched around, many pointed out how phono preamps in receivers faded away after the 80's when CD's were the big thing. So now most receivers don't include a phono option or if they do, the components are of less quality.

I assume Marantz would have a pretty solid phono preamp as they seem to design their products strongly towards music listeners, but I'm just guessing. I think I will just stay with what I have and only try something else if I come across a Goodwill or garage sale treasure, thanks again!

 

[vsound5150]

I would think that the Marantz phono preamp has a good performance.
If you have the opportunity to compare it with the sound of an external preamp which is known to be an excellent performer, that could reassure you.
However, if you are still in doubt and decide to look for a vintage preamp, may I suggest the Hitachi HCA-8300 which could also be part of your list. This preamp has an excellent performance, I can tell you, I own one. It was also well rated by expert reviewers when it was released.

Thanks Verdinut, I'm guessing the same with the Marantz maybe I'll shoot them an email see if they can add more, I'll add the Hitachi to my list and be on the lookout.

 

[PENG]

They may not want to admit this, but I will bet all recent Denon/Marantz AVRs and AVP have the same phono section in them. Just look at the specs, word for word, identical. It is cost effective to standardize on such an item.

 

[TLS Guy]

Don't waste your time on this. The RIAA Eq circuit is very simple and low tech. Don't be lured by Audiophoolery.

If you don't like the sound of your turntable then look to the cartridge/arm items.

Turntables are not plug and play. It is actually quite complex optimizing turntable reproduction. Few know the issues and less about solving them.

The RIAA Eq is well down the list of places to look to improve LP reproduction.

 

[vsound5150]

Is RIAA a fixed spec./design across the board? I was reading up on it a bit but still unclear.

I am fine tuning my turntable and washing records, next will be trying a straight tonearm vs the S arm I have now, waiting for delivery from Japan. But I'm still a newbie to the turntable scene.

 

[TLS Guy]

Yes, it is a fixed curve. There are different ways of implementing it obviously because there are tube circuits, discrete transistor and IC op amp circuits.

The one problem is that impedance is specified at 47K but capacitance is not. There is a problem as the input capacitance in not. The capacitance of the cables is not, and the optimal loading capacitance for cartridges is all over the map. So this does alter the top end response.

SME use low capacitance leads and then you can solder in the correct capacitance at the base of the arm. In comes with one in the middle of the range.

The Quad 44 Preamp, has dip switches for getting the load capacitance dead right and optimizing input sensitivity.

One of the big issues is making sure the cartridge compliance and tone arm mass match correctly.

The other issue is that records are not flat, and so I firmly believe damping is required. SME tone arms are damped. Some Shure cartridges are damped, and the Shure damping and SME tone arm damping are synergystic.

I'm a strong proponent of SME tone arms by the way. They have set the benchmark standard for over half a century.

 

[KEW]

I'm not a vinyl guy, but why don't you list the equipment you currently have and ask for ideas on the best upgrade path.

I would be surprised if there was a significant difference between an S vs straight arm. Using identical material, the S would have more mass and also allow a bit more flex, but as soon as you change material, it seems like either could do the same job.
Maybe I am wrong and someone will be along to "school me", but I'd bet the main difference is which looks better to you (which is also likely to sound better on a "sighted" test).
Of course, I am speaking in generalities, not comparing a well-designed vs poorly designed tone arm of either configuration.

 

[PENG]

I'm not a vinyl guy, but why don't you list the equipment you currently have and ask for ideas on the best upgrade path.

I would be surprised if there was a significant difference between an S vs straight arm. Using identical material, the S would have more mass and also allow a bit more flex, but as soon as you change material, it seems like either could do the same job.
Maybe I am wrong and someone will be along to "school me", but I'd bet the main difference is which looks better to you (which is also likely to sound better on a "sighted" test).
Of course, I am speaking in generalities, not comparing a well-designed vs poorly designed tone arm of either configuration.

I was very happy with my Pro-Ject Debut before and the IXpression lll now, both are straight armed with the cartridge angled. Geometrically I don't think the S shaped one can track much better if both are optimally designed. Everything else being equal the S arm should be heavier and that is a negative, but it may in theory track marginally better overall, again assuming both have their geometry designed optimally also.

 

[KEW]

It is surprising that linear tracking tone arms never became the standard.
A friend has one of these Harman/Kardon - Rabco turntables which worked great aside from the tracking roller wheel turning to gel about every 8 years. He no longer uses it because he no longer could find a replacement wheel. But that is a problem that should be easy enough to deal with by choosing the right material.

It is elegantly simple. Any time the arm is not perpendicular to the carriage, the roller will carry it sideways to square it back up:

There were plenty of other versions by other manufacturers that also seemed to work well, this is just the one I am familiar with.

 

[Swerd]

Is RIAA a fixed spec./design across the board? I was reading up on it a bit but still unclear.

The Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA) equalization curve was intended to operate as a de-facto global industry standard for records since 1954…

I agree with TLS Guy, PENG, and all the others, don't waste your time or money on this.

You had said:

"One concern I had was when I researched around, many pointed out how phono preamps in receivers faded away after the 80's when CD's were the big thing. So now most receivers don't include a phono option or if they do, the components are of less quality."​

You are right that CDs rendered phono preamps obsolete. However, assuming phono preamps in modern AVRs are of less quality is wrong. These RIAA equalizers were cheap in 1954, and still are today. See the board inside the AT-PEQ3

 

[vsound5150]

I have a Denon DP-60L turntable mfg. 1980. Supposedly it originally came with the Straight tonearm with an angled headshell as a one-piece unit. The one I purchased came with the optional S tonearm allowing different headshells. I'm told the Straight arm is better so I found one and will try it out when I receive it.

I purchased an Audio-Technica AT440MLb cartridge for it but still trying different table adjustments to see how it responds like if highs and lows change or not. There is some "crackling" but not often and I'm guessing it's dirty or worn LP's, I use an anti-static brush against the LP's before playing I think it helps alittle.

Regaring records not being flat as someone mentioned earlier, I'm experiencing a bad one on a new album I received for x-mas. Watching from the side it's like the stylus is going over a speed bump and it almost goes airborn on the back drop and skips. I don't know if the Straight arm will help for situations like this. I tried increasing tracking force but no luck and I'll probably just introduce new problems doing band-aid fixes. Yesterday, I bought two glass cutting boards to try and straighten the LP with some heat in the oven, just waiting for wife to be away for couple hours

 

[vsound5150]

I was considering this phono preamp when I was using their calculator, tube based, but instead I will focus on fine tuning the turntable.

http://www.kabusa.com/frameset.htm?/

 

[slipperybidness]

I was considering this phono preamp when I was using their calculator, tube based but I will focus on fine tuning the turntable.

View attachment 19921

http://www.kabusa.com/frameset.htm?/

Meh, overpriced tubes.

If I were gonna spend that much on a phono pre, then I would be looking at this:
http://emotiva.com/products/pres-and-pros/xps-1

For what it's worth, I use the built in phono pre on my Pio VSX-82 and on my Emo USP-1.

 

[TLS Guy]

I have a Denon DP-60L turntable mfg. 1980. Supposedly it originally came with the Straight tonearm with an angled headshell as a one-piece unit. The one I purchased came with the optional S tonearm allowing different headshells. I'm told the Straight arm is better so I found one and will try it out when I receive it.

I purchased an Audio-Technica AT440MLb cartridge for it but still trying different table adjustments to see how it responds like if highs and lows change or not. There is some "crackling" but not often and I'm guessing it's dirty or worn LP's, I use an anti-static brush against the LP's before playing I think it helps alittle.

Regaring records not being flat as someone mentioned earlier, I'm experiencing a bad one on a new album I received for x-mas. Watching from the side it's like the stylus is going over a speed bump and it almost goes airborn on the back drop and skips. I don't know if the Straight arm will help for situations like this. I tried increasing tracking force but no luck and I'll probably just introduce new problems doing band-aid fixes. Yesterday, I bought two glass cutting boards to try and straighten the LP with some heat in the oven, just waiting for wife to be away for couple hours

The solution to your problem is a damped arm.

The curved structure is a silicone fluid bath in which a paddle attached to the arm is submerged in. The arm is an SME series III.

 

[slipperybidness]

The solution to your problem is a damped arm.

The curved structure is a silicone fluid bath in which a paddle attached to the arm is submerged in. The arm is an SME series III.

My RC cars use silicone fluid in the shocks

 

[vsound5150]

What's the best way to implement a damped arm? Is it an add-on piece or does it come with specific turntables?

Its smooth frictionless operation makes sense as if the tonearm has done its job and leaving it all up to the cartridge to perform the rest.