Just Retired

[KenM10759]

My NAD T758 can drive my KEF R series speakers to over 100dB...very cleanly. They have an 86-88dB sensitivity, depending upon which ones.

Could I benefit from an amp? Sure, things would run cooler for the perhaps 15 minutes a month that I listen at those levels. Not worth the investment to me.

 

[gzubeck]

My NAD T758 can drive my KEF R series speakers to over 100dB...very cleanly. They have an 86-88dB sensitivity, depending upon which ones.

Could I benefit from an amp? Sure, things would run cooler for the perhaps 15 minutes a month that I listen at those levels. Not worth the investment to me.

Its not that...its the clipping that drives me nuts. My speakers were rated for 89db but because they go deep the bass was tubby and the transition between midrange and high frequency was less than satisfactory. Also, at lower listening volumes it sounds cleaner. Its not just one thing its many little things. effortless cone control.

 

[KenM10759]

No clipping with NAD. Goes into protection mode if I push too hard. Happened ONCE. I know where to not go and don't need it. I actually think my speakers sound best in the 70-75dB range.

 

[lovinthehd]

Its not that...its the clipping that drives me nuts. My speakers were rated for 89db but because they go deep the bass was tubby and the transition between midrange and high frequency was less than satisfactory. Also, at lower listening volumes it sounds cleaner. Its not just one thing its many little things. effortless cone control.

Rated for 89dB? You mean sensitivity? Or spl?

 

[gzubeck]

Rated for 89dB? You mean sensitivity? Or spl?

sensitivity 89 db at 2.83v/meter.

 

[gzubeck]

No clipping with NAD. Goes into protection mode if I push too hard. Happened ONCE. I know where to not go and don't need it. I actually think my speakers sound best in the 70-75dB range.

when i say clipping its not shutdown mode but you can hear increasing brightness in the upper midrange high frequencies. lower frequencies are tubby sounding. imaging is also improved with at least 100 watts for most speakers. Your NAD is not considered a wimpy product by any means.

 

[lovinthehd]

sensitivity 89 db at 2.83v/meter.

I guess I just don't get why you mentioned that in the same sentence as describing sound qualities of your speaker.

Imaging is improved in most speakers by simply having a 100 watt amp hooked up to it? Really? Where did you get that nonsense from?

 

[gzubeck]

I guess I just don't get why you mentioned that in the same sentence as describing sound qualities of your speaker.

Imaging is improved in most speakers by simply having a 100 watt amp hooked up to it? Really? Where did you get that nonsense from?

Well in my case yes. From what ive seen most comercial speakers are rated between 85-92 db in sensitivity. So in most cases there is improvement in sound quality with around 100watts or better depending on the demands of individual speakers. some speakers need more juice like electrostats and some need average power based on cone woofer technology. it depends but then you want me exactly perfect or otherwise you make up excuses to find fault. like i said put up or shutup. quality cone control helps in recreating a realistic sound field. your mileage may vary if you have small cones in smaller enclosures that demand less wattage to work well.

 

[lovinthehd]

Well in my case yes. From what ive seen most comercial speakers are rated between 85-92 db in sensitivity. So in most cases there is improvement in sound quality with around 100watts or better depending on the demands of individual speakers. some speakers need more juice like electrostats and some need average power based on cone woofer technology. it depends but then you want me exactly perfect or otherwise you make up excuses to find fault. like i said put up or shutup. quality cone control helps in recreating a realistic sound field. your mileage may vary if you have small cones in smaller enclosures that demand less wattage to work well.

I'm just trying to understand your logic. I still don't understand your position on a connection between sensitivity and sound quality across the board let alone how the amp's power rating affects staging. Quality cone control? Describe that.

 

[gzubeck]

I'm just trying to understand your logic. I still don't understand your position on a connection between sensitivity and sound quality across the board let alone how the amp's power rating affects staging. Quality cone control? Describe that.

Is this the only place you frequent for audio information? Because if so this term has been used for a long time. Some how I get the feeling that if I use coitus or Phucking interchangeably you might get confused.

 

[lovinthehd]

Is this the only place you frequent for audio information? Because if so this term has been used for a long time. Some how I get the feeling that if I use coitus or Phucking interchangeably you might get confused.

What term has been used for a long time? Talk about confused....

 

[gzubeck]

What term has been used for a long time? Talk about confused....

The term cone control. the higher and sometimes better amplification controls the woofers more accurately thereby creating a more realistic 3d soundfield.

 

[lovinthehd]

The term cone control. the higher and sometimes better amplification controls the woofers more accurately thereby creating a more realistic 3d soundfield.

Okay, so this happens with the amp merely hooked up and the 100w idling in standby? Of course you want to minimize distortion but the amp's distortion level is usually minor compared to that of the woofer's own and control with passive crossover components means even less. Accuracy I could go for, but "3d soundfield" is a bit too flowery for me.

 

[KenM10759]

I thought an amp only put out the watts needed to achieve the volume level required and having more available was just "headroom."

 

[Irvrobinson]

I thought an amp only put out the watts needed to achieve the volume level required and having more available was just "headroom."

Think of an amplifier like you would a magnifying glass. It has a fixed magnification. A 10x glass makes a 1 inch object look like a 10 inch one. Amplifiers are similar, in that they have a fixed gain. Of course, amplifiers have a larger magnification factor than most magnifying glasses - a typical home amp will have 32db of gain, which is something like 40:1. Of course, the output of amp is limited by its performance into a load of a given impedance, so gain is usually measured at 8 ohms, which is what most consumers amps are optimized for. If the input input voltage is high enough, usually something like 1.5-2.0 volts, the amp reaches full rated output.

 

[gzubeck]

Okay, so this happens with the amp merely hooked up and the 100w idling in standby? Of course you want to minimize distortion but the amp's distortion level is usually minor compared to that of the woofer's own and control with passive crossover components means even less. Accuracy I could go for, but "3d soundfield" is a bit too flowery for me.

go ahead and try to power a 85db sensitive speaker with a 20 watt amplifier and then try it with a 100 watt amplifier and tell me after which creates a more believeable soundfield. the 3d term is just to emphasize a more there experience vs. just noise coming out of any underpowered speakers.

 

[lovinthehd]

I've done so and that didn't happen and even with 300w/ch amps. Now if you're talking an elevated spl levels then the higher power amp could make a difference, but without talking about spl/distance from the speaker there's no point in just judging something based on a sensitivity spec and amp wattage. 3d soundfield sounds like reviewer prose when they don't know what they're talking about. What would an alternate soundfield be, 2d would be ridiculous. If anything it's 4d

 

[gzubeck]

I've done so and that didn't happen and even with 300w/ch amps. Now if you're talking an elevated spl levels then the higher power amp could make a difference, but without talking about spl/distance from the speaker there's no point in just judging something based on a sensitivity spec and amp wattage. 3d soundfield sounds like reviewer prose when they don't know what they're talking about. What would an alternate soundfield be, 2d would be ridiculous. If anything it's 4d

well if you listen with a crappy 1000w amplifier poorly built youll have a crappy experience. If you have a 95db rated high quality speaker even my emotiva a100 50watt amplifier might give you a pretty good listening experience. when im saying a 100watt amplifier im usually talking about a speaker sensitivity rating between 85-92db and you will have a better experience than a 50 watt amplifier even if you put a small subjective value of only a 20% improvement. It might make all the difference in the world.

 

[lovinthehd]

well if you listen with a crappy 1000w amplifier poorly built youll have a crappy experience. If you have a 95db rated high quality speaker even my emotiva a100 50watt amplifier might give you a pretty good listening experience. when im saying a 100watt amplifier im usually talking about a speaker sensitivity rating between 85-92db and you will have a better experience than a 50 watt amplifier even if you put a small subjective value of only a 20% improvement. It might make all the difference in the world.

You have no clue, you should just stop.

 

[gzubeck]

You have no clue, you should just stop.

Ive been tinkering with audio for 30 years. whats your credentials? whats your system setup? Im callling you out. your a complete idiot.