Denon and Yamaha

[AcuDefTechGuy]

But that is exactly what I am saying. I listened to my Yamaha for YEARS in my home with MY speakers and then swapped it out for a Rotel. Using the same source and same speakers, The sonic difference, right out of the gate was quite apparent.

1. Did you have BOTH the Rotel AND Yamaha in the same room/system for YEARS?

If YES, you had BOTH in the same room for YEARS, then ---->

2. Did you LEVEL MATCH both the Yamaha and Rotel?

3. Did you turn off all EQ/Room EQ/DSP?

 

[PENG]

But that is exactly what I am saying. I listened to my Yamaha for YEARS in my home with MY speakers and then swapped it out for a Rotel. Using the same source and same speakers, The sonic difference, right out of the gate was quite apparent.

Fair enough, but as you admitted you were offering your own opinions, not facts. That's one reason why I only read reviews to see measurement data and ignore the reviewers subjective description of their perceived sound quality. For me, accuracy (response, distortions, noise etc) is important as one can do their own thing to tune the SQ to their liking.

Based on my experience (I understand yours are different), higher end Rotel, Anthem, Yamaha, D&M products will not likely be the bottleneck in most people's music/ht systems if used well withing their power output limits. Again, we all have our preference, and I prefer neutral sound that could approach what I hear in live unamplified concerts.

 

[3db]

But that is exactly what I am saying. I listened to my Yamaha for YEARS in my home with MY speakers and then swapped it out for a Rotel. Using the same source and same speakers, The sonic difference, right out of the gate was quite apparent.

Maybe it sounds better, maybe it doesn't. How do you know that your expectations and bias about Rotel didn't cloud your hearing perception? After all human bias effects more of what we hear. That's why I'm saying.. to get to the truth about how it sounds, one has to test by removing as much bias as possible, ie blind listening tests.

 

[lovinthehd]

You can also read up on reviews of Rotel amps on line that say the same thing as me. All I am describing here is my first initial impressions of the amp after years of listening to high end Yamaha amps. I'm not saying Yammie amps are bad, I'm just saying that Rotel's stuff is better.........and better sounding.

I'll just crawl back into my Rotel hole now.......

I wasn't there and haven't owned a Rotel but sounds like you didn't do much of a comparison except with your sonic "memory" along with your expectations of the new toy based on what some reviewer wrote. Don't bother with reviewers mostly myself...especially when it comes to amps.

 

[herbu]

I'm trying to remember if I've ever seen a post where somebody said, "I just got my new X. It cost twice as much as my old X, but I think the old one sounds better".

 

[3db]

I'm trying to remember if I've ever seen a post where somebody said, "I just got my new X. It cost twice as much as my old X, but I think the old one sounds better".

Ohhhh ..... Your talking about AVRs .. Usually old X cost more than new X unless the new X is particularily vendictive...

 

[Goliath]

Maybe it sounds better, maybe it doesn't. How do you know that your expectations and bias about Rotel didn't cloud your hearing perception? After all human bias effects more of what we hear. That's why I'm saying.. to get to the truth about how it sounds, one has to test by removing as much bias as possible, ie blind listening tests.

Yes, but there are always excuses. If you can't hear the difference then your ancillary gear clearly was not "resolving" enough. Speakers lack "resolution" to resolve, cables .. etc... etc.

... sun wasn't shining correctly on the day...

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Yes, but there are always excuses. If you can't hear the difference then your ancillary gear clearly was not "resolving" enough. Speakers lack "resolution" to resolve, cables .. etc... etc.

... sun wasn't shining correctly on the day...

Or Humidity wasn't 100%, especially if your components are analog.

 

[Dan Madden]

Hehehehe!! You guys are hilarious. Hey, I'm just giving you my opinion. If you don't want to try Rotel products and listen for yourself then fine.......stick to your Yamaha's and Denon's.

But I dare you !! No....no....no........I double dare you!! Hook up a Rotel amp/avr to your existing speakers and source material and tell me you don't hear a difference!!

There!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

If you don't want to try Rotel products and listen for yourself then fine.......

We have listened to Rotel a few times. That and MacIntosh, Mark Levinson, Krell, Bryton, Classe, Parasound, Anthem, Lexicon, Sunfire, NAD.

Keep in mind that many of us have been in this hobby for over 25+ Years. Yes, we've listened to a great many number of speakers, amps, preamps, pre-pros. And some of us have actually owned many of these brands.

 

[3db]

Hehehehe!! You guys are hilarious. Hey, I'm just giving you my opinion. If you don't want to try Rotel products and listen for yourself then fine.......stick to your Yamaha's and Denon's.

But I dare you !! No....no....no........I double dare you!! Hook up a Rotel amp/avr to your existing speakers and source material and tell me you don't hear a difference!!

There!

I've auditioned Classe, Bryston, and Yamaha through two pairs of speakers, the original Energy 22 and a pair of Mirage SM-3 and each speaker pair had all 3 amps auditioned through them. It was this that solidified by belief that amps sound far more the same then different, the difference being is how they sounded when clipping or approaching their limits. Ive auditioned others as well but that was the most memorable. This may come as a shock but there is no such thing as a cable god.

 

[lovinthehd]

Hehehehe!! You guys are hilarious. Hey, I'm just giving you my opinion. If you don't want to try Rotel products and listen for yourself then fine.......stick to your Yamaha's and Denon's.

But I dare you !! No....no....no........I double dare you!! Hook up a Rotel amp/avr to your existing speakers and source material and tell me you don't hear a difference!!

There!

Sure, send me yours, I'll try it.

 

[Dan Madden]

I've auditioned Classe, Bryston, and Yamaha through two pairs of speakers, the original Energy 22 and a pair of Mirage SM-3 and each speaker pair had all 3 amps auditioned through them. It was this that solidified by belief that amps sound far more the same then different, the difference being is how they sounded when clipping or approaching their limits. Ive auditioned others as well but that was the most memorable. This may come as a shock but there is no such thing as a cable god.

You listened to both Classe and Yamaha with the same speakers and they sounded THE SAME?????

..........ok then.........wow........

 

[Dan Madden]

In conclusion, I always thought that all amps sounded the same but they in fact.........DON'T !!

 

[everettT]

In conclusion, I always thought that all amps sounded the same but they in my opinion ......DON'T !!

Fixed it for you.

 

[3db]

You listened to both Classe and Yamaha with the same speakers and they sounded THE SAME?????

..........ok then.........wow........

Yes... It was a blind listening test in that I didn't know which amp was switched into the speakers and which amp wasn't. The guy who owned the shop wouldn't tell me which amp he was starting with so I had NO expectations on how they should sound. Everyone should audition amps this way as it removes all bias which humans are naturally inclined to do.

 

[3db]

In conclusion, I always thought that all amps sounded the same but they in fact.........DON'T !!

I would imagine that amps sound differently when clouded with subjective bias which goes hand in hand when performing sighted listening tests.

 

[herbu]

Everyone should audition amps this way

You can often accomplish the same thing by asking your wife who knows nothing about audio brands or cost, and doesn't care, "Honey, which one do you think sounds better?".

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

In conclusion, I always thought that all amps sounded the same but they in fact.........DON'T !!

That's why there is a perpetual amp debate.

Some people believe they hear significant differences among amps even when they are LEVEL MATCHED and bias removed (blind test, NOT from memory).

Some people believe they don't hear significant differences among amps....

Some people believe there MAY be tenuous differences among amps. But since the differences are only tenuous, they don't care to lose any sleep over this topic nor wish to argue over such trifles.

 

[PENG]

You can often accomplish the same thing by asking your wife who knows nothing about audio brands or cost, and doesn't care, "Honey, which one do you think sounds better?".

You should know the answer without asking, about 99% of the time.