Denon and Yamaha

[Dan Madden]

Comparing Yamaha to Denon to Onkyo is like comparing apples to apples. The difference in sound will be marginal in most cases. If I was you and you want better sound and performance, I would go a step up and Try Rotel.

With Rotel, you will get an immediate increase in performance. You might be able to buy a used one within your budget.

 

[lovinthehd]

Why would Rotel offer more "performance"?

 

[everettT]

Why would Rotel offer more "performance"?

It's an overly broad statement and they don't. In avrs I'd say they lack when compared to DM models or yamaha of equal price. Kinda like NAD and others that always are behind the tech curve.

 

[KenM10759]

I admit my NAD receiver is "behind the times" in terms of the number of logos on the front for features, but I do like how it sounds for 2 channel and 2.1 music.

 

[Dan Madden]

Why would Rotel offer more "performance"?

Quite simply because they DO offer more performance.....especially on the 'amp' side of things.

I'll tell you about my experience............

For years I had high end Yamaha AVR's and was sold on them. Then, I had some money to blow on an upgrade and heard that Rotel amps were better. I also wanted DD and DTS decoding as well and my last Yammie was pro-logic only (High end though...cost me $1000 bucks). That was in the mid 90's though.

My Rotel cost twice what my Yamaha cost ($2k) and that was a big chunk of change for me but I bought it anyway. I was always under the impression that an amp was an amp and that it simply amplified a source. Watts were watts and that was it. Boy, was I wrong!!

From the moment I wired my Rotel up.......and it was rated at 75 watts/ch compared to my old Yamaha which was 100 watts/ch, the difference was immediate and striking!! The sound was immediate and forward....punchy.....piles of detail..... and the biggest difference was the dynamic 'headroom'. When a blast of power was needed (ie......cymbal crash or drum roll for music.......explosion for movies) it just delivered the power effortlessly. When I ask my Rotel to go from 2 channel stereo to 5ch stereo it says......"Sure no problem" and just does it effortlessly with no loss of volume or power delivery.

Trust me when I say that Rotel is a step up.........

 

[3db]

Quite simply because they DO offer more performance.....especially on the 'amp' side of things.

I'll tell you about my experience............

For years I had high end Yamaha AVR's and was sold on them. Then, I had some money to blow on an upgrade and heard that Rotel amps were better. I also wanted DD and DTS decoding as well and my last Yammie was pro-logic only (High end though...cost me $1000 bucks). That was in the mid 90's though.

My Rotel cost twice what my Yamaha cost ($2k) and that was a big chunk of change for me but I bought it anyway. I was always under the impression that an amp was an amp and that it simply amplified a source. Watts were watts and that was it. Boy, was I wrong!!

From the moment I wired my Rotel up.......and it was rated at 75 watts/ch compared to my old Yamaha which was 100 watts/ch, the difference was immediate and striking!! The sound was immediate and forward....punchy.....piles of detail..... and the biggest difference was the dynamic 'headroom'. When a blast of power was needed (ie......cymbal crash or drum roll for music.......explosion for movies) it just delivered the power effortlessly. When I ask my Rotel to go from 2 channel stereo to 5ch stereo it says......"Sure no problem" and just does it effortlessly with no loss of volume or power delivery.

Trust me when I say that Rotel is a step up.........

The problem with your "subjective" evaluation is that you offered no baseline for comparison. I don't see in your account where you use blind listening tests with volumes levels matched ( same measured SPL coming from the speakers regardless of the AVR driving them). I also don't see where you set up the AVRs in stereo mode with no DSP or room correction engaged. My guess is that eye candy swayed your results, not your ears.

 

[Dan Madden]

The problem with your "subjective" evaluation is that you offered to baseline for comparison. I don't see in your account where you use blind listening tests with volumes levels matched ( same measured SPL coming from the speakers regardless of the AVR driving them). I also don't see where you set up the AVRs in stereo mode with no DSP or room correction engaged. My guess is that eye candy swayed your results, not your ears.

It's got nothing to do with 'SPL' readings or volume levels matched. It's got everything to do with the presentation of the audio signal to my ears via the same speakers I used with my Yamaha. My Rotel offers no DSP or room correction technology. It's an older unit (RSX-1057). It plays 75 watts X 5 ch. All I can say is that compared to my high end Yamaha unit, the difference to my ears was immediate on the audio side of things. This is simply my opinion. The dude above is looking for better audio performance and I am simply giving him my opinion on what he needs to get there. Rotel's are known for there musicality. I noticed it.....that's all.

 

[herbu]

With Rotel, you will get an immediate increase in performance.

My Rotel cost twice what my Yamaha cost

it was rated at 75 watts/ch compared to my old Yamaha which was 100 watts/ch

My Rotel offers no DSP or room correction technology

Hmmmm... Not sure I'm convinced.

 

[3db]

It's got nothing to do with 'SPL' readings or volume levels matched. It's got everything to do with the presentation of the audio signal to my ears via the same speakers I used with my Yamaha. My Rotel offers no DSP or room correction technology. It's an older unit (RSX-1057). It plays 75 watts X 5 ch. All I can say is that compared to my high end Yamaha unit, the difference to my ears was immediate on the audio side of things. This is simply my opinion. The dude above is looking for better audio performance and I am simply giving him my opinion on what he needs to get there. Rotel's are known for there musicality. I noticed it.....that's all.

Volume matching is very important. Did you know that our hearing (every human that is ) is so inclined that the identical speaker whose volume is playing louder than the other will sound better?

You should really read up on Floyd Toole's work and some of the publications by the admins on this site to get yourself acquainted with the quirks of human hearing. It truly is a strange beast and it will give you a better understanding as to why we are questioning your hypothesis. Its nothing personal.

 

[everettT]

I admit my NAD receiver is "behind the times" in terms of the number of logos on the front for features, but I do like how it sounds for 2 channel and 2.1 music.

Well if I were talking sound and not tech, I'd say my speakers sound great

 

[everettT]

Hmmmm... Not sure I'm convinced.

Well ABC NBC and CBS all gave it glowing reviews, fox didn't. Oops wrong thread

 

[lovinthehd]

Quite simply because they DO offer more performance.....especially on the 'amp' side of things.

I'll tell you about my experience............

For years I had high end Yamaha AVR's and was sold on them. Then, I had some money to blow on an upgrade and heard that Rotel amps were better. I also wanted DD and DTS decoding as well and my last Yammie was pro-logic only (High end though...cost me $1000 bucks). That was in the mid 90's though.

My Rotel cost twice what my Yamaha cost ($2k) and that was a big chunk of change for me but I bought it anyway. I was always under the impression that an amp was an amp and that it simply amplified a source. Watts were watts and that was it. Boy, was I wrong!!

From the moment I wired my Rotel up.......and it was rated at 75 watts/ch compared to my old Yamaha which was 100 watts/ch, the difference was immediate and striking!! The sound was immediate and forward....punchy.....piles of detail..... and the biggest difference was the dynamic 'headroom'. When a blast of power was needed (ie......cymbal crash or drum roll for music.......explosion for movies) it just delivered the power effortlessly. When I ask my Rotel to go from 2 channel stereo to 5ch stereo it says......"Sure no problem" and just does it effortlessly with no loss of volume or power delivery.

Trust me when I say that Rotel is a step up.........

Hard to trust someone who describes differences in electronics as you do. Definitely not my experience with many amps and avrs over the years (and still have several now). Forward, punchy, piles of detail, musicality? Please.

ps You forgot PRaT, LOL!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Comparing Yamaha to Denon to Onkyo is like comparing apples to apples. The difference in sound will be marginal in most cases. If I was you and you want better sound and performance, I would go a step up and Try Rotel.

With Rotel, you will get an immediate increase in performance. You might be able to buy a used one within your budget.

Rotel doesn't offer anything more than Denon, Yamaha, etc.

Actually, Rotel offers LESS (no EQs).

 

[chlorophyll]

Planning to take yamaha 2910.but i need suggestion here.i dont use blueray disks at al for watching movies.i jus dload the movie then get into usb drive n watch it.
Is there any advantage if i get a separate media player apart from playing quality movies from usb drive?
Ok if needed am planning to take pioneer bd player.please let me know if this combi was good or not
Thanks in advance

Sent from my SM-N910G using Tapatalk

 

[lovinthehd]

Planning to take yamaha 2910.but i need suggestion here.i dont use blueray disks at al for watching movies.i jus dload the movie then get into usb drive n watch it.
Is there any advantage if i get a separate media player apart from playing quality movies from usb drive?
Ok if needed am planning to take pioneer bd player.please let me know if this combi was good or not
Thanks in advance

I like leaving annoying advertising in my posts! Sent from my SM-N910G using Tapatalk

As long as your player supports whatever's on your usb drive it's all good. Digital is digital, might depend where you decode it, though.

 

[PENG]

Subjective opinions may not be useful but still fine, if worded as such. Quite often people offered such opinions in ways that the not well informed could interpret as facts. Now this is just my opinion..

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Subjective opinions may not be useful but still fine, if worded as such. Quite often people offered such opinions in ways that the not well informed could interpret as facts. Now this is just my opinion..

Like they say how one brand sounds more chocolaty or sweeter or more airy or tighter or more musical, blah, blah, blah?

We are here to share our many years of experiences.

 

[Dan Madden]

Hard to trust someone who describes differences in electronics as you do. Definitely not my experience with many amps and avrs over the years (and still have several now). Forward, punchy, piles of detail, musicality? Please.

ps You forgot PRaT, LOL!

You can also read up on reviews of Rotel amps on line that say the same thing as me. All I am describing here is my first initial impressions of the amp after years of listening to high end Yamaha amps. I'm not saying Yammie amps are bad, I'm just saying that Rotel's stuff is better.........and better sounding.

I'll just crawl back into my Rotel hole now.......

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

You can also read up on reviews of Rotel amps on line that say the same thing as me. All I am describing here is my first initial impressions of the amp after years of listening to high end Yamaha amps. I'm not saying Yammie amps are bad, I'm just saying that Rotel's stuff is better.........and better sounding.

I'll just crawl back into my Rotel hole now.......

So if a reviewer says that Yamaha sounds more chocolaty, more airy, more open, tighter, sweeter than Rotel, then it must be true?

Unfortunately, most people on forums are basing their conclusions on reviews which are based on transient subjective listening, instead of years of experiences from other enthusiasts who have owned many brands from different price ranges.

And there is a 100% difference between OWNING and listening to a system for YEARS at home, instead of a few minutes or hours.

 

[Dan Madden]

So if a reviewer says that Yamaha sounds more chocolaty, more airy, more open, tighter, sweeter than Rotel, then it must be true?

Unfortunately, most people on forums are basing their conclusions on reviews which are based on transient subjective listening, instead of years of experiences from other enthusiasts who have owned many brands from different price ranges.

And there is a 100% difference between OWNING and listening to a system for YEARS at home, instead of a few minutes or hours.

But that is exactly what I am saying. I listened to my Yamaha for YEARS in my home with MY speakers and then swapped it out for a Rotel. Using the same source and same speakers, The sonic difference, right out of the gate was quite apparent.