Hanging In There!

[PENG]

I also had my XO at 120Hz even when I had Salon2 & 802D.

D&M/Audyssey call it LPF for LFE in the menu screen. It is a filter so technically you could call it a crossover that works the opposite way as the crossovers for the other speakers because it low pass instead of high pass and it only filters the LFE signal. It was obvious in his FAQ responses, Chris K did not want it called "crossover", and for good reasons.

To avoid confusion, we should also call it LPF as shown on the menu screen, just IMHO..

 

[PENG]

It would not be the first time I confused you....LOL!!! Yeah, I was referring to the LFE. So, just leave it at 120 then? I usually go back in and change it to 80-90 Hz. Not a good idea eh? Will read up on your link. Thanks Peng!

Cheers,

Phil

Definitely leave it at 120 Hz, it won't affect the Taylos at all.

 

[speakerman39]

D&M/Audyssey call it LPF for LFE in the menu screen. It is a filter so technically you could call it a crossover that works the opposite way as the crossovers for the other speakers because it low pass instead of high pass and it only filters the LFE signal. It was obvious in his FAQ responses, Chris K did not want it called "crossover", and for good reasons.

To avoid confusion, we should also call it LPF as shown on the menu screen, just IMHO..

Next time I run Audyssey, I will leave it at 120 Hz as explained in your link. Thanks for the link. It is a BIG help.

Cheers,

Phil

 

[KEW]

That's fine for a place to start, but to just suggest a crossover (merlin not you) without any consideration of the small room acoustics is like, as Louis CK would say, "A blind d!ck, thrusting in infinite directions hoping to find paydirt someplace."

Thanks, I actually meant to include that Merlin is a good suggestion for a starting place, certainly not gospel. As best I an figure, they usually go about 30Hz above the F3 for the speakers.

Edit: Now that I have read that you are referring to the setting on your AVR for the LFE, forget everything I've said and use 120Hz!!!

(and don't say "The 120 Hz X-over setting is on my subs." when it is on the AVR)

 

[lovinthehd]

Phil, first glad you got some speakers....no fun having health issues when you may be stuck at home recooperating/resting without yer tunes and movies with good audio!

Assuming your X4000 is setup similar to my 4520, try going into the speakers menu > manual setup > crossovers to see where your speakers' crossover to the sub is set. Personally with my subs and fairly capable speakers they're nowhere near as capable as my subs so I still set my xover to 120. My subs work very well into the range of 300-400hz, too....not sure about yours.

ps Every time you run Audyssey it resets everything after you set sub level...I try to get my sub levels where yours were set then bump it up 2-4 dB. Just a matter of taste....

 

[KenM10759]

Congrats on the new speakers Phil! I take it Tyler cut you a deal on some floor demo or "new old stock."

The members here have given you good info on the technical side. Lets talk about aesthetics. Definitely keep the grilles off, at least for a long time. It looks as though there's a slight darkening of the veneer (natural cherry?) except where the grilles had covered. Or perhaps someone had treated the veneer with an oil or polish without taking the grilles off. It might take quite some time for the "tan lines" to diminish.

I can imagine that the overall build quality and materials are quite a step up from the Ultra's. The Scanspeak tweeters and Seas drivers are very high quality, and I'm sure Tyler uses top components in the crossover. I would expect better resolution and overall cleaner and faster response from those speakers than the previous. You have plenty of available bass to make up any shortcomings in that range.

Enjoy! Now just keep them for at least two years, OK?

 

[herbu]

I have Audyssey Dynamic EQ On, Audyssey Bypass L/R On, & Dynamic Volume OFF exactly 100% of the time for all volume, all media, 2CH, & 5.1.

How do you set your Dynamic EQ Reference Level Offset?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

How do you set your Dynamic EQ Reference Level Offset?

My AVP-A1HDCI & AVR-5308CI do not even have this offset feature. Instead of setting all levels to the usual 75dB, I set them to 80dB. This is how I deal with the offset.

So I guess my "Offset" is Zero or No Offset, and all speaker channel levels are set to 80dB, instead of 75dB.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

D&M/Audyssey call it LPF for LFE in the menu screen. It is a filter so technically you could call it a crossover that works the opposite way as the crossovers for the other speakers because it low pass instead of high pass and it only filters the LFE signal. It was obvious in his FAQ responses, Chris K did not want it called "crossover", and for good reasons.

To avoid confusion, we should also call it LPF as shown on the menu screen, just IMHO..

It does make more sense saying "LPF", instead of "Crossover" since we are just talking about the LFE.

So my LPF was set to 120Hz even when I had Salon2 & 802D2.

 

[speakerman39]

Thanks, I actually meant to include that Merlin is a good suggestion for a starting place, certainly not gospel. As best I an figure, they usually go about 30Hz above the F3 for the speakers.

Edit: Now that I have read that you are referring to the setting on your AVR for the LFE, forget everything I've said and use 120Hz!!!

(and don't say "The 120 Hz X-over setting is on my subs." when it is on the AVR)

Yeah, I screwed up. Referring to the X-over instead of the LFE. So, I will leave it at 120. Going to rerun Audyssey very soon. Maybe even today. But, since Audyssey set my Taylos to small isn't the X-over automatically set @80 hz for my Taylos? Think that I will do a reset and just start over and go from there....LOL!!!!

Cheers,

Phil

 

[speakerman39]

Phil, first glad you got some speakers....no fun having health issues when you may be stuck at home recooperating/resting without yer tunes and movies with good audio!

Assuming your X4000 is setup similar to my 4520, try going into the speakers menu > manual setup > crossovers to see where your speakers' crossover to the sub is set. Personally with my subs and fairly capable speakers they're nowhere near as capable as my subs so I still set my xover to 120. My subs work very well into the range of 300-400hz, too....not sure about yours.

ps Every time you run Audyssey it resets everything after you set sub level...I try to get my sub levels where yours were set then bump it up 2-4 dB. Just a matter of taste....

Yeah, that is merely what I have been doing. It has worked for me with the exception that my subs levels are always way too low. When I calibrate each sub to 75 db, the gain knobs are barely at the 9:00 o'clock position. Then, after running Audyssey sets them at -10. db/-10.5 db respectively. As such, there is very little, if any, bass at all. So, I usually go back in manually to crank the levels up a lot to get the bass where I like it. Maybe I can get more done today. Thanks for the tips!

Cheers,

Phil

 

[speakerman39]

Congrats on the new speakers Phil! I take it Tyler cut you a deal on some floor demo or "new old stock."

The members here have given you good info on the technical side. Lets talk about aesthetics. Definitely keep the grilles off, at least for a long time. It looks as though there's a slight darkening of the veneer (natural cherry?) except where the grilles had covered. Or perhaps someone had treated the veneer with an oil or polish without taking the grilles off. It might take quite some time for the "tan lines" to diminish.

I can imagine that the overall build quality and materials are quite a step up from the Ultra's. The Scanspeak tweeters and Seas drivers are very high quality, and I'm sure Tyler uses top components in the crossover. I would expect better resolution and overall cleaner and faster response from those speakers than the previous. You have plenty of available bass to make up any shortcomings in that range.

Enjoy! Now just keep them for at least two years, OK?

Ken, I think that the veneers look a bit different in some of my pics. It must have something more to do with the lighting in my room. I certainly am NOT a photographer. But, here in the flesh the Taylos look identical. BTW, did not get the Taylos from Ty. He was building a brand new set that is going to be reviewed when I picked up the Linbrooks. Might see where and when they are going to be reviewed.

Yes the Taylos offer more resolution and detail when compared to the Ultras. The soundstage is also larger. But, using my Denon X4000 on both the differences are NOT as much as you would think. That just goes to show just how good the Ultras really are. Selling them was a BIG mistake.

With higher end electronics, I am certain the differences between the Taylos and the Ultra would be more evident. However, keep in mind that a new set of the Taylos cost $2400 whereas the Ultras are 1K a set. At 1K a set, the Ultras are going to be very hard to beat at that price imho.

Cheers,

Phil

 

[lovinthehd]

Yeah, that is merely what I have been doing. It has worked for me with the exception that my subs levels are always way too low. When I calibrate each sub to 75 db, the gain knobs are barely at the 9:00 o'clock position. Then, after running Audyssey sets them at -10. db/-10.5 db respectively. As such, there is very little, if any, bass at all. So, I usually go back in manually to crank the levels up a lot to get the bass where I like it. Maybe I can get more done today. Thanks for the tips!

Cheers,

Phil

Your sub levels are perfect IMO, many of us try to achieve those settings (as long as you are not at the maximum setting of -12), consider that it is better than clipping your sub signal by being in the positive range (good goal is to not go over the "0" setting after applying boost). Boosting each up a few dB is what many do; anywhere from 2-6 I see regularly, how much have you been adding? Use DynamicEQ in connection with the RLO setting for movies vs music and experiment a bit, too.

 

[speakerman39]

Your sub levels are perfect IMO, many of us try to achieve those settings (as long as you are not at the maximum setting of -12), consider that it is better than clipping your sub signal by being in the positive range (good goal is to not go over the "0" setting after applying boost). Boosting each up a few dB is what many do; anywhere from 2-6 I see regularly, how much have you been adding? Use DynamicEQ in connection with the RLO setting for movies vs music and experiment a bit, too.

I usually boost up to 3-4 db at the most. Will do some experimenting w/Dynamic EQ, and etc. Plan to rerun Audyssey soon. Hopefully, later today. Thanks for the tips!

Cheers,

Phil

 

[PENG]

Phil, if you are going to re-run Audyssey, please follow instructions to the letter and if you have the time, do it for all 8 positions. Audyssey does not do averaging, it just needs more positions to gather more information. The X4000 has XT32 and Sub EQ HT, so in the beginning it will tell you if your subs volumes are set too high and you will have to adjust it until it turns green.

AH ( https://www.audioholics.com/av-receiver-reviews/denon-avr-x4000-review/setup) seemed happy with the performance of XT32, but the curves Cliff was able to get were not as good/smooth/flat as mine, I guess it depends on a few things..

Audyssey has no control over the "small" vs "large" for the front L,R speakers, Denon does it on its own. If the AVR does manage to make the right decision to set them to "small", it does not mean it will set the XO to 80 Hz. It may set them to 60 Hz but feel free to manually up them to 80 Hz or even 90 Hz for those speakers. Have fun!!

 

[speakerman39]

Phil, if you are going to re-run Audyssey, please follow instructions to the letter and if you have the time, do it for all 8 positions. Audyssey does not do averaging, it just needs more positions to gather more information. The X4000 has XT32 and Sub EQ HT, so in the beginning it will tell you if your subs volumes are set too high and you will have to adjust it until it turns green.

AH ( https://www.audioholics.com/av-receiver-reviews/denon-avr-x4000-review/setup) seemed happy with the performance of XT32, but the curves Cliff was able to get were not as good/smooth/flat as mine, I guess it depends on a few things..

Audyssey has no control over the "small" vs "large" for the front L,R speakers, Denon does it on its own. If the AVR does manage to make the right decision to set them to "small", it does not mean it will set the XO to 80 Hz. It may set them to 60 Hz but feel free to manually up them to 80 Hz or even 90 Hz for those speakers. Have fun!!

Peng, that is how I calibrate both subs to 75 db. It is very hard to get it to exactly 75 db, but I get it as close as I can. Then, I simply start Audyssey. I have my couch off of the back wall now about a foot. So, it is still very hard to get all (8) measurements per the instructions. However, Fuzz showed me some alternative patterns. They seem to have worked very well. My Taylos were set to "small". Thought that the X-over for them was set to 80 automatically. Maybe that is NOT the case. Will be sure to check that out next time I run Audyssey. Will set the Taylos to 80 hz or so. Thanks once again Peng for the tips!

Cheers,

Phil

 

[lovinthehd]

Peng, that is how I calibrate both subs to 75 db. It is very hard to get it to exactly 75 db, but I get it as close as I can. Then, I simply start Audyssey. I have my couch off of the back wall now about a foot. So, it is still very hard to get all (8) measurements per the instructions. However, Fuzz showed me some alternative patterns. They seem to have worked very well. My Taylos were set to "small". Thought that the X-over for them was set to 80 automatically. Maybe that is NOT the case. Will be sure to check that out next time I run Audyssey. Will set the Taylos to 80 hz or so. Thanks once again Peng for the tips!

Cheers,

Phil

Why not look now as to what your crossovers are set to rather than guessing? You can check now without affecting your current xover settings (or you can change them without needing to re-run Audyssey as well).

 

[PENG]

Why not look now as to what your crossovers are set to rather than guessing? You can check now without affecting your current xover settings (or you can change them without needing to re-run Audyssey as well).

Agree, it should take less than 20 seconds to get to that screen and press check results to see the results including the crossover settings. I was going to ask him to do exactly that but forgot.

 

[speakerman39]

Why not look now as to what your crossovers are set to rather than guessing? You can check now without affecting your current xover settings (or you can change them without needing to re-run Audyssey as well).

Yeah, I am fully aware that I can do that. But, I just prefer to start over as it is so easy to do. No worries really. Just trying to get as accurate results as possible. Al of you guys have been great and it is most appreciated. Fun fun fun!

Cheers,

Phil

 

[speakerman39]

Agree, it should take less than 20 seconds to get to that screen and press check results to see the results including the crossover settings. I was going to ask him to do exactly that but forgot.

View attachment 18428

Yeah Peng I am well aware I can get to that screen. However, just want to start fresh as it is so easy to do. As mentioned up above, I really appreciate all of the help you guys have given me. It really makes a difference and is most appreciated.

Cheers,

Phil