Can you hear a difference in Sound between Audio Amplifiers?

[PENG]

You can then use Audio DiffMaker....

Could you send me some links to read about the null and diffmaker things? Thanks.

 

[jinjuku]

Could you send me some links to read about the null and diffmaker things? Thanks.

http://www.libinst.com/Audio DiffMaker.htm

 

[jinjuku]

Could you send me some links to read about the null and diffmaker things? Thanks.

http://www.libinst.com/Audio DiffMaker.htm

 

[Andrew08]

i finally confirm this myself, i have poa a1hd, pioneer a656, NEC av 300, preaux, and yes all of them sound different, it is how the instrument sound, they sounds different.

 

[sterling shoote]

Yes, amps sound different, like when you're playin' at a high volume with an amp with too little power for a high volume level and then playin' at a high volume with an amp with enough power for high volume level. I've got a sub which simply will not deliver with 300 watts. I had to get 560 watts to it to not distort or clip at high volume. I need the volume to drown out the calls from my wife to turn it down.

 

[mtrycrafts]

... I need the volume to drown out the calls from my wife to turn it down.

Does it work?

 

[Dan Madden]

Yes.......amps do sound different from model to model. Not as big as say.......speakers sound different.......but yes, they do sound different.

 

[Leroy Jenkins]

I never tried under strictly controlled conditions. I speculate that under controlled conditions the differences might not be that noticeable to me among amps with similar designs/specs. Will defer to the experts though. Old cliche is true for me I guess: I listen to music not equipment.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I listen to music not equipment

That's exactly right on.

Even if there is a small difference in sound, who cares!

Just listen to the music, not the equipment.

 

[RichB]

I never tried under strictly controlled conditions. I speculate that under controlled conditions the differences might not be that noticeable to me among amps with similar designs/specs. Will defer to the experts though. Old cliche is true for me I guess: I listen to music not equipment.

Live unamplified music is the best, but it gets expensive, especially in your home.
You cannot beat equipment for convenience.

- Rich

 

[ATLAudio]

If the goal is full range reproduction accuracy of source, and the compared amps are of the same output and ohm stability why should they sound different? So this begs the question; why would someone want to make an amp that doesn't accurately reproduce source material.

Let's review the obvious. There is no secret sauce technology here; solid state can be made to completely copy any tube amp, as can any solid state copy any other solid state. To do so requires no high dollar doo-dad or long hours in a lab. There's no high dollar doo-dad that makes one amp achieve better reproduction. It's simple; if they are departing from accuracy, and usually won't do so outside the very subtle.

 

[mtrycrafts]

...There is no secret sauce technology here; solid state can be made to completely copy any tube amp, as can any solid state copy any other solid state. To do so requires no high dollar doo-dad or long hours in a lab. ...

Yes, Carver did this way back when with an 1 Ohm resistor switchable in or out in the speaker out each channel. Sounded like a tube amp.

 

[ATLAudio]

Yes, Carver did this way back when with an 1 Ohm resistor switchable in or out in the speaker out each channel. Sounded like a tube amp.

It had nothing to do with the speaker.

Carver did this using null difference testing between two amps. In 180 degrees out of phase you should get nothing, except for at the frequencies where one is different. He then changed his amp to mock the tested amp.

 

[Andrew08]

i don't know if this count, but any of you guys have bluetooth stereo headphone like the jabra street 2? when the battery is being charged full, and when the battery is almost depleted the sound sounds different, when the bass played it is like powerless to play the high frequency sound. Is this transient?

this also happened to a normal bose on my mazda cx7, my listening level is not too loud around 15 to 20, I can't stand the noise floor when it is above 20(hissing) at morning and 17 at night buzzing(ground loop when turning on the light). but I can hear that recovering from bass problem.

I also have focal fpp 5300, and 4x165v30 + 21w2 on my other car, the bass recovering problem is not there.

next is my NEC receiver which i mention before with kef Q900, i am sure that i didn't listen to it very loud but i can tell for sure it clipped, that harsh sound and when the twitter start moving irregularly is a prove that it clips. I didn't check using RTA but I can tell

last is my A1HD, this pre and amp with kef Q900, I can listen to it hours without having problem, seriously i can't tell whether it clipped or not, no strange bass response. I can tell which amp is playing by above problem.

I mean, seriously what do you guys means by playing amp within spec? how do you guys know it is not within spec? how do i even know the spec of the bose on my cx7? how do i even know what is the thd of my nec driving 4ohm? how do i know my speaker which is 8ohm is diving into 4ohm in some frequency? I mean spec is there to read, but if I am the end consumer do I care to read? any of you read the terms and conditions?

So as and end customer yes amp sounds different "full stop".

 

[everettT]

i don't know if this count, but any of you guys have bluetooth stereo headphone like the jabra street 2? when the battery is being charged full, and when the battery is almost depleted the sound sounds different, when the bass played it is like powerless to play the high frequency sound. Is this transient?

this also happened to a normal bose on my mazda cx7, my listening level is not too loud around 15 to 20, I can't stand the noise floor when it is above 20(hissing) at morning and 17 at night buzzing(ground loop when turning on the light). but I can hear that recovering from bass problem.

I also have focal fpp 5300, and 4x165v30 + 21w2 on my other car, the bass recovering problem is not there.

next is my NEC receiver which i mention before with kef Q900, i am sure that i didn't listen to it very loud but i can tell for sure it clipped, that harsh sound and when the twitter start moving irregularly is a prove that it clips. I didn't check using RTA but I can tell

last is my A1HD, this pre and amp with kef Q900, I can listen to it hours without having problem, seriously i can't tell whether it clipped or not, no strange bass response. I can tell which amp is playing by above problem.

I mean, seriously what do you guys means by playing amp within spec? how do you guys know it is not within spec? how do i even know the spec of the bose on my cx7? how do i even know what is the thd of my nec driving 4ohm? how do i know my speaker which is 8ohm is diving into 4ohm in some frequency? I mean spec is there to read, but if I am the end consumer do I care to read? any of you read the terms and conditions?

So as and end customer yes amp sounds different "full stop".

When driven to clipping you know . As for what frequency and ohm you might not know without 3rd party measurements.

 

[RichB]

If the goal is full range reproduction accuracy of source, and the compared amps are of the same output and ohm stability why should they sound different?

The only reason would be that distortion and/or linearity are the same between amplifiers driving a speaker load. I very rarely see measurements driving a speaker load. Even simulated speaker loads show some difference in response.

So this begs the question; why would someone want to make an amp that doesn't accurately reproduce source material.

To sell products to meet the needs of a marketplace.
Small light, portable class-D makes a lot of sense and so can massive mono-blocks.

I own/have owned Sunfire Signature and still have an 15-year old Sunfire running in an HT system.
I never use the current-source. Others want the "tube" sound. I don't

- Rich

 

[Alex2507]

I can hear the difference in amps even if they're not plugged in.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I can hear the difference in amps even if they're not plugged in.

Yeah, me too. Why, my ATI AT3005 amp sounds heavier and more expensive than my AT2004 amp for sure. No question about it.

 

[MR.MAGOO]

of course they sound different....when you turn the volume knob.
I'm being a smart-alec, I don't have several amps at my disposal to test with. I could hook up my old AVR with the same speakers as I'm using on my current AVR and hear if there is a difference.

 

[3db]

I can hear the difference in amps even if they're not plugged in.

Whoa!!!! You're good.

 

[ski2xblack]

Can't believe this thread is still going...

I've noticed differences between amps, but only in cases where the cardinal rules are violated (low output impedance, low distortion, linear within freq range, operated within limits). Performed level matched a/b test using a Pass Labs (XA30) vs. more modestly priced amps: unable to tell the difference.

I think the transient peaks of the leading edges of notes require more dynamic power, and that clipping occurs far more often, than people realize. I suspect that this accounts for many of the perceived differences when folks go from an AVR to a dedicated amp with more dynamic power reserves and/or improved low impedance drive capability. Unclipped power has a more open, effortless sound, and is more capable of creating a convincing facsimile of the real thing. An AVR may be taxed trying to replicate those leading edge transients, even at modest levels, given the average speaker sensitivity and typical listening distances. It won't come across as gross clipping, because it's not, but if it's happening enough, it will color the sound.

And a lot is due to folks fooling themselves, expectation bias in sighted evaluations. What did Feynman say, the easiest one to fool is oneself? A few measurements, or even calculations based on reasonable input, would dispel the myths.

Folks who explore qualitative differences between amps are missing the boat. Amps are mature technology. Those with low output impedance, low distortion, and linear response are dime a dozen, making power the primary concern.* The folks seeking a qualitative difference need eq, or new speakers, but not amps with different sonic signatures. (Such amps exist, by design, but they largely fail at meeting the basic definition of an amplifier. They are more correctly referred to as processors with voltage gain. See tubes, First Watt amps for examples.)

*The speaker/amp interaction is complex and may account for differences, but such differences would fall under situations where the amp's clean power limits are exceeded.