DON'T BUY EMOTIVA! THEIR PRODUCTS AND CUSTOMER SERVICE ARE CRAP

[AcuDefTechGuy]

... what's different today, is manufactures no longer test products as they once did, instead they just ship a limited initial quantity for their excited customers to unknowingly test. Software and firmware updating to fix bugs also disturbs me, especially for electronics that are not used wirelessly with connection to the internet, which makes updating difficult. Worst case, the updates don't load or break the electronics, cutting short the life of the product, which it's buyer expected to enjoy for many, many more years.

Be afraid. Be very afraid.

 

[herbu]

manufactures no longer test products as they once did, instead they just ship a limited initial quantity for their excited customers to unknowingly test.

Wrong! Some companies do that, others still test 100% using test methods and equipment that far exceeds what was done years ago.

It pays to know the company you're dealing with... and shopping for the cheapest price is not always the best strategy.

 

[Rickster71]

My Emo amp blew one of my speakers when I had it. It's the amp I sold to Rick and I can't remember if I told him it blew up one of my speakers so don't let him see this thread.

Anyway one channel of the amp would shut on and off if you lifted one corner higher than the other. At times that channel would be off and a lift of the corner would turn it on. I was running the auto-cal one day and it kept turning that channel up thinking it was just too low when in fact, it wasn't working. All of the sudden the dang thing clicked on and blew a driver. I was PO'd and Emo said "sorry" and decided to send me a new module for thew amp but would not take blame for the speaker.

I dusted the amp off and quickly sold it to Rick

I still get a yearly Christmas card from Emo. I would forward it to Rick but I lost his address....

It's still going strong, good for one or two movies a week. And an occasional AH GTG

Waddaminit. Is that the amp he's been driving my maggies with?

Oh, Ricky. You got some slpanin' to do.

No, those were on an XPA-2........
Don't forget, you and I boxed up the maggies last year.

 

[highfigh]

My Emo amp blew one of my speakers when I had it. It's the amp I sold to Rick and I can't remember if I told him it blew up one of my speakers so don't let him see this thread.

Anyway one channel of the amp would shut on and off if you lifted one corner higher than the other. At times that channel would be off and a lift of the corner would turn it on. I was running the auto-cal one day and it kept turning that channel up thinking it was just too low when in fact, it wasn't working. All of the sudden the dang thing clicked on and blew a driver. I was PO'd and Emo said "sorry" and decided to send me a new module for thew amp but would not take blame for the speaker.

I dusted the amp off and quickly sold it to Rick

I still get a yearly Christmas card from Emo. I would forward it to Rick but I lost his address....

You should have inspected the module for bad solder joints. Lifting one corner tells me it had at least one and if you had shown them that it had this problem, they should have paid for a replacement driver.

 

[Dan Laufman]

Hi all,
This is Dan from Emotiva. I'd like to address this this posting and shed some light on the facts.

Yes, Adam did have an amplifier failure. He purchased the amplifier in early December and it had been working properly until the other day. Yes, it did emit a puff of smoke and go into protect. Probably a leaky bypass capacitor, we'll know soon.

Adam called on Monday evening around 5:30 pm. He was very aggressive with our technical service agent and swore at him repeatedly. Remember, this was his first contact with us, and Chad was just trying to resolve his issue for him.

After repeatedly swearing at him and the company, and going off on a real rant, he was issued an RMA. A note was sent to me on our client management system outlining the "nature" of the conversation. The reason a simple service issue was directed to me was because of the over-the-top behavior of our client. Chad was really upset and caught off guard, and thought I should know about it.

Interspersed with the cutting and ugly language about the company and its products, he let Chad know that he expected us to send someone our from our factory to his home in Connecticut to inspect his entire system, replace all of his B&W speakers sign unseen, and of course, his amplifier. Chad who is a very even and calm person was trying to explain that this was not something that was possible, but this did not sit well with Adam.

The facts:

I personally contacted Adam and spoke to him yesterday. He apologized to me and Chad for his over the top language and behavior. Thank you Adam.

His amplifier is being serviced under our standard warranty terms. As a courtesy to him, we are paying freight both ways. Not because he pitched a fit, but because his amp is not that old and it was something we would have done anyway.

None of his speakers were damaged, a fact he realized once he properly set up his AVR and calmed down.

In closing...

It's easy to throw stones from a distance, and fan the fire for sport, or to satisfy ones personal agenda.

At Emotiva we pride ourselves on designing and selling high quality audio products. We've been doing this for 12 years now and we DO NOT treat our customers poorly. We bend over backwards to treat our clients as we would want to be treated.

The facts are not nearly as exciting as a flame throwing contest and a scandal, but they are the facts. It would have been nice if Adam posted an update on the final results of this situation, but here we are.

Keep moving folks, there's nothing to see here...

Life goes on.

Cheers,
Big Dan

 

[highfigh]

Remember, every mechanical/electrical device out there can and will fail; but, what's different today, is manufactures no longer test products as they once did, instead they just ship a limited initial quantity for their excited customers to unknowingly test. Software and firmware updating to fix bugs also disturbs me, especially for electronics that are not used wirelessly with connection to the internet, which makes updating difficult. Worst case, the updates don't load or break the electronics, cutting short the life of the product, which it's buyer expected to enjoy for many, many more years.

WiFi is for convenience, not performance. Anyone who attempts an update via WiFi is putting the device at risk and they usually state this in the owner's manual. WRT updates- you're OK with computer operating systems constantly updating, but not an AVR, DVD/BD player, TV, Cable/Sat box or streaming device? Please explain why. ANYTHING using a program and other software needs an occasional update, to remain current with improvements.

 

[highfigh]

The facts are not nearly as exciting as a flame throwing contest and a scandal, but they are the facts. It would have been nice if Adam posted an update on the final results of this situation, but here we are.

Keep moving folks, there's nothing to see here...

Life goes on.

Cheers,
Big Dan

Don't you just love customer service? I had someone give me an earful about the cassette deck he had bought during a weekend sale, saying it was the biggest POS he had ever seen. I asked what it was doing and he shouted "NOTHING! IT"S NOT DOING ANYTHING!". I asked what the power cord was plugged into and then I heard a pause, a click and the dial tone.

 

[slipperybidness]

Wrong! Some companies do that, others still test 100% using test methods and equipment that far exceeds what was done years ago.

It pays to know the company you're dealing with... and shopping for the cheapest price is not always the best strategy.

The fact is that math and statistics apply very readily to manufacturing. If you properly apply Statistical Process Control, then there is absolutely no reason that you NEED to test every unit before it ships.

SPC can tell you how many units you need to test for your data set to represent the total population, and how many failures to expect within that population. Then, you look at the $ and go from there.

Yes, testing every unit would be great. Is it necessary? Nope! And we know this when we apply proper statistics to the process.

 

[j_garcia]

I have talked to Chad a few times both via email and by phone. Nicest guy. Even met Chad and Dan at the Emotiva On the Road event. Sorry to hear that he had to bear the brunt of that.

I had a problem with my UMC-200; it simply died as well, but after over a year of use. I was very frustrated too, but they took care of it free of charge (sans shipping) and got it back to me in a timely fashion.

My XPA-3 is 6 or 7 years old with no issues.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

Why do I have a feeling that I will no longer get a Christmas card?

 

[Adam Kelly]

Dan,

That's not entirely accurate. I did not demand that a tech person come out to my home. I was under the impression that there were service centers that work in partnership with Emotiva. As it turns out, that was a misunderstanding. The request was made because I wasn't sure what the extent of the damage to the entire system was.

As I mentioned in my lengthy and very balanced comment on the Emotiva message board today - I admitted to some poor decision making but your depiction of it is a little more egregious than what actually transpired and my heightened tone mostly came after the confrontational and dismissal approach of your CS rep including their comments about "our amps do not blow up", "the warranty is clear..." and "I'm working late and technically we are closed so I didn't need to take your call".

Your description of a "puff of smoke" is curious to me because you weren't there. It was definitely more than a puff of smoke. There were what looked like sparks, and there were loud pops. There was also a tremendous burning smell that filled almost my entire apartment.

I acknowledged your phone call in the aforementioned response, which can be found on the Emotiva message board yesterday and gave it its proper due however I am disappointed in your assumptions and misinformed accusations. I am also deeply troubled by your aggressive attempt to smear a customer as a blatant attempt to deflect the actual issues while also ignoring my side of the story. With the lack of professionalism displayed, lack of care in handling your response, lack of empathy in terms of why a customer would be upset over the situation, and arrogance displayed in your message - it doesn't take much to understand why this same type of treatment was found in your customer service rep. By the way, you acknowledged my apology but not yours - because I never received one.

I think it's important to understand that this isn't like dealing with a defective piece of furniture or something like that. The stakes are much different. Because of your expertise, you are going to see the situation much different than someone like me who doesn't have an electrical engineering background. I couldn't possibly understand what the extent of the damage was and seeing a piece of equipment literally go up in smoke with initial indications that it may have also negatively impacted other high price pieces of equipment - that's a very unnerving experience.

I agree at this point, there's nothing else to say on the matter both figuratively and literally. I imagine that you will go on to sell many amps but I will not be a future Emotiva customer. Time to move on.

 

[Adam Kelly]

My response on the Emotiva message board.

"I've read all the responses for this thread and appreciate the constructive feedback - for the rest, maybe you can take a couple thousand dollar hit and shrug it off as just something that happened. I would imagine that you probably wouldn't however... and I imagine you have all had "moments" in your life so let's not cast stones. It's easy to be cool and calm when it's not your money on the line and your simply responding to a post in an internet chat room. I don't have endless disposable income and wouldn't be able to absorb that kind of hit. I've worked very hard to build my system and it's taken a long time.

My expectations were such that my 3 month old amp would not blow up (I use that in a general sense) and smoke would not come billowing out from the top. I've owned numerous pieces of audio / video gear throughout my life - mostly Denon and B&W and I've never seen anything like that. My expectations were also that there would be some discussion and/or guidance on the other end of the phone in terms of helping me understand what could or could not be potentially damaged in this scenario. Perhaps a run through of a couple tests to possibly try and diagnose whether the speakers could have been blown or to test whether anything else was damaged. I don't know to what extent this help could have been provided but this was not offered.

Instead, the first response I received was "well I'm here late and I didn't need to take your call" then it was "our amps don't blow up" and then the response was the company line (again I am using a general term) of how the warranty clearly states that anything outside of the amp is not covered. Now I take some responsibility in this because I was angry - angry at situation, shocked at what I just saw, distressed over what else was potentially damaged, and disappointed that I wasn't experiencing the level of support that I envisioned I would receive from Emotiva - however I own some of that because of my emotions. However, at that moment I felt betrayed in my trust of the company and its product and I felt like I was on the hook for potentially hundreds if not thousands of dollars for something that was clearly caused by this piece of equipment and the last thing I needed at that moment was the company line....

NOW...I received a call from and spoke to DL today and that spoke just as loudly to me but in the opposite direction than what I felt I experienced the night before - and I appreciated that. My hope is that the matter will be resolved and I believe that it will be. I bought this amp because of the videos I saw of DL and LV and the care that was communicated in their tone as they discussed their product development and the culture they create from the top down. I will provide confirmation of the conclusion of this matter when the loop is closed."

 

[Alex2507]

Greg blew a speaker ... in college.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I like the Max Volume LIMIT feature on AVR & Pre-Pro.

That way I know if idiots somehow got a hold of my system, they cannot exceed the max volume. And since they are idiots, they won't be able to figure out how to change that setting.

One time my living room system was blasting away at Max Volume Limit. And one of the in-laws failed miserably trying to increase the volume.

 

[Adam Kelly]

Just to clarify - my volume on the receiver was at -35 dbs when this happened. I live in a downtown high-rise and I couldn't crank the system up even if I wanted to because of neighbors...city living you know...


Yes - to set the record straight - I hooked up my speakers to the receiver after disconnecting everything from the amp and all that I was hearing was the low frequency. Sound was just coming from the woofer - nothing in the mid range or upper frequency.

The thought was that because of this - the speakers were damaged. However, I pretty much disconnected everything and reset my Denon and then started systematically plugging the basic things back in and doing some basic configurations. After doing all of this, I was able to achieve sound from the speakers at all frequencies. It's difficult to say whether anything on the inside was impacted and I have an MBA not a degree in Electrical Engineering and so I didn't know the impact at that time and don't fully understand whether there could have or could not have been an impact due to DC (something or other), and the protections that are either built or not built into the system.

BUT...to make a long story short - yes the speakers appear to be working just fine and again - Dan did call yesterday to discuss the amp.

 

[Rickster71]

Greg blew a speaker ... in college.

In his defense, Greg had one appletini too many and guy was really cute.... NTTAWWT

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Just to clarify - my volume on the receiver was at -35 dbs when this happened. I live in a downtown high-rise and I couldn't crank the system up even if I wanted to because of neighbors...city living you know...


Yes - to set the record straight - I hooked up my speakers to the receiver after disconnecting everything from the amp and all that I was hearing was the low frequency. Sound was just coming from the woofer - nothing in the mid range or upper frequency.

The thought was that because of this - the speakers were damaged. However, I pretty much disconnected everything and reset my Denon and then started systematically plugging the basic things back in and doing some basic configurations. After doing all of this, I was able to achieve sound from the speakers at all frequencies. It's difficult to say whether anything on the inside was impacted and I have an MBA not a degree in Electrical Engineering and so I didn't know the impact at that time and don't fully understand whether there could have or could not have been an impact due to DC (something or other), and the protections that are either built or not built into the system.

BUT...to make a long story short - yes the speakers appear to be working just fine and again - Dan did call yesterday to discuss the amp.

Definitely seems like equipment failure and not misuse.

It would have scared a lot of people. Definitely not a fun situation.

I might have missed this, but what is your AVR?

 

[Adam Kelly]

Denon 5308 - Receiver
Denon DNP 720ae - Network Player
Denon DVD 5910 - DVD / CD Player
Oppo 103 - Blu Ray Player
Panamax Power Conditioner

B&W 683 S2 Fronts
B&W HTM 61 S2 Center
B&W DS3 Surrounds
B&W ASW 1000 Sub

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Denon 5308 - Receiver
Denon DNP 720ae - Network Player
Denon DVD 5910 - DVD / CD Player
Oppo 103 - Blu Ray Player
Panamax Power Conditioner

B&W 683 S2 Fronts
B&W HTM 61 S2 Center
B&W DS3 Surrounds
B&W ASW 1000 Sub

Oh, I love that Denon AVR-5308CI. I have one myself.

I don't even know why you would want to use an external amp when you have the AVR-5308CI (MSRP $5,500).

 

[Adam Kelly]

Yeah it's a great receiver that's very well made and reliable. I think it's the last sort of true flagship receiver that Denon has made - with what has seemed to be an industry shift from power and performance to connectivity.