Parasound P5, P7, Integrated 2.1 comparisons

[DD66000]

I currently own the P7...fantastic unit....only short coming no digital inputs.
And all settings can be changed on the fly, from the remote, something that can not be done on the other two. But the XO is limited to three options. P5, Integated have continuous XO options.
All three units have a phono input.....does anyone know how the three phono stages compare?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

ematthews could probably tell you since he owned two P5s and now will be getting the P7. I think he also has vinyl player.

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/alternate-for-parasound-p5-pre.97315/

 

[DD66000]

I am thinking of adding the Integrated 2.1...from what I've read it's better than P5/A23 combo....160w is twice what I am driving the L/R now. With a really good BM w/o having to go with an external unit.
Although the P7 does have its own advantages, as I mentioned.
I suspect the 2.1 produces a soundstage similar, if not identical, to the P7...which is far superior to my HK AVR.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

You already have a good 220WPC amp. Why get a 160WPC I.A.?

If you want to get Halo, I would get the Halo A21 250WPC amp.

 

[DD66000]

You already have a good 220WPC amp. Why get a 160WPC I.A.?

If you want to get Halo, I would get the Halo A21 250WPC amp.

Only for 5 channels, C, 4 SS....the HK amp drives the mains...@80w....an A21 does nothing for adding digital inputs.
And I don't even come close to using 80w, 99% of the time.
If I use the AVR for optical connection I loose detail, and depth.

I currently have the P7 connected thru a dragonfly DAC.
I don't use the 2205A for the mains as I don't like the idea of heating up 5 channels to use only 2.
I had been using a Citation 19 amp for years, but it got long in the tooth....does not have the HF resolution of the newer amp.

 

[DD66000]

So has anyone compared the Oppo 105 pre-out to the Parasound pre-amps?
To listen to Oppo, the 105 has a superb soundstage.
But is it as good as the P7, or Integrated?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

So has anyone compared the Oppo 105 pre-out to the Parasound pre-amps?
To listen to Oppo, the 105 has a superb soundstage.
But is it as good as the P7, or Integrated?

Might ask RichB to comment since he owns Oppo and Parasound components and probably has compared.

 

[PENG]

So has anyone compared the Oppo 105 pre-out to the Parasound pre-amps?
To listen to Oppo, the 105 has a superb soundstage.
But is it as good as the P7, or Integrated?

I don't find the 105 pre-out any better than my prepro pre-out but I do feel the HA-1 preout the best. I know RichB prefer 105D preout compared to his prepro (also the AV8801) but I am not sure if the 105D's preout is better than the 105, I don't think so but YMMV.

 

[RichB]

I do not have a lot of experienace with other DACs other than the XMC-1 , 105D, and HA-1.
For two channel, I agree with PENG, the HA-1 is my preference. The bass is a bit tighter and the upper end more open. The 105D is on slouch though.

Many use the 105(D) in conjunction with the P7 for volume control and bass management. I was told that the Oppo XX5's help sell a lot of P7's That is the best choice if you require multi-channel. I had the 105 and 105D but not at the same time. I don't believe there is any difference in the analog implementation.

The HA-1 can also be placed between the P7 and amp using HT-Bypass but this requires the HA-1 to be powered on. However, if you want bass management, then use the HA-1 as a DAC in By-Pass mode with the P7 for volume control and bass management. Currently, I am using this configuration with the XMC-1 which has excellent 2 channel performance (in XLR Stereo Reference mode).

The HA-1 is fully balanced with a class-a headphone amp and it gets hot.

- Rich

 

[PENG]

The HA-1 is fully balanced with a class-a headphone amp and it gets hot.

- Rich

I know it is normal for class A but I am seriously considering adding a fan as soon as I can find one that is inaudible. Where it sits, all 4 sides are open with 5.5 inches of space above and the thing is still so hot, that leaves no doubt it is truly class A.

 

[RichB]

I know it is normal for class A but I am seriously considering adding a fan as soon as I can find one that is inaudible. Where it sits, all 4 sides are open with 5.5 inches of space above and the thing is still so hot, that leaves no doubt it is truly class A.

There is good air-space above each component but the stack is: Parasound A51, XMC-1, and HA-1 on top.
I was concerned about the heat so I installed:

GELID Solutions Slim 12 UV BLUE 120mm Case Fan:

https://secure.newegg.com/NewMyAccount/OrderHistory.aspx?RandomID=4354872932208120160212055348​

These fans are extremely quiet when run at 5 volts.​

I use a USB Powered Programmable thermal Controller with LED Display and a standard (old apple charger) wall wart to control the fans:

http://www.coolerguys.com/840556100584.html​

- Rich

 

[Cos]

Rich,

Why did you get rid of your AV8801? I know you had some initial problems with it?

 

[RichB]

Rich,

Why did you get rid of your AV8801? I know you had some initial problems with it?

It's a long story.
It was a good funtionality but I had two separate trigger failures that caused the unit to be out for repair 2 of the 9 months I owned it. Subsequent posts on AVS indicate a less than robust trigger implementation.

Many claim the AV8802 is a better sounding unit, but until they make a better trigger design, I shall watch from afar

I like the XMC-1 Stereo Reference which truely bypass all DSP processing. The Marantz/Denon have many features that have the effect of making Pure/Direct almost soft of Pure/Direct

- Rich

 

[Cos]

Interesting feedback, I have 3 amps daisy chained to drive my Atmos Setup with 2 A51 and 1 A21 and I have never had any issues.

I have no complaints with my AV8802A with 2 Channel Pure Direct, but I have not compared it to other units side by side. I was all about getting the XMC-1 in the beginning, but lost interest after it came so long after the announced it. It is really a nice unit.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The Marantz/Denon have many features that have the effect of making Pure/Direct almost soft of Pure/Direct

- Rich

Are you saying that the Emo has true Pure Direct, but the Denon/Marantz don't have true Pure Direct?

 

[RichB]

Interesting feedback, I have 3 amps daisy chained to drive my Atmos Setup with 2 A51 and 1 A21 and I have never had any issues.

I am not sure why this happens to some and not others. At one time, my dealer said 10% had issues.
The first failure was failure to power on.

The second happened after the unit had been on for a while. There was a smell of burning electronics and my amp powered off. I measure the trigger voltage and it was low. The other trigger output operated normally. When sent in the second repair, the tech recounted his conversation with Marantz where he wondered if I was pluggin in my Prius. Marantz is still in a timeout

- Rich

 

[RichB]

Are you saying that the Emo has true Pure Direct, but the Denon/Marantz don't have true Pure Direct?

There is no real definitions of Pure/Direct each manufacturer picks there own.

Thankfully, Emotiva chose to divorced illuminating the front panel from "Stereo Reference Mode". This has always been a feature from the marketing department that has no bearing on performance.

Let's take the XLR inputs on Marantz AV8801 and Emotiva XMC-1.

XMC-1 Stereo Reference performs no A/D conversion, never applies DSP processing, bypasses DSP circuitry, and is fully balanced. Trims operate as they are part of the volume control but distance settings do not as they are DSP based.

AV8801 Pure/Direct - Sometimes performs A/D conversion, may apply some DSP processing, bypasses room correction and PEQ, forces the from panel display off.

I am not certain when DSP processing is bypassed or not. It is clear that features like bi-amp, Bass LFE+Main are DSP implementations so A/D conversion must occur.

The 7.1 analog inputs on both units do not support any DSP features because A/D converters are not implemented.

- Rich

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Thankfully, Emotiva chose to divorced illuminating the front panel from "Stereo Reference Mode". This has always been a feature from the marketing department that has no bearing on performance.

That statement is FALSE. A few people may hear improvement when all Video circuits are bypassed in Pure Direct Mode, just like a few people may hear improvement when they passive bi-amp.

So you may not be getting "TRUE PURE DIRECT" if the video circuit is still 100% active.

BTW, they don't FORCE you to have the front display off. You can use DIRECT mode, which allows the front display to be on.

So Emo has the equivalent of "Direct" mode, but lack "PURE DIRECT".

XMC-1 Stereo Reference performs no A/D conversion, never applies DSP processing, bypasses DSP circuitry, and is fully balanced. Trims operate as they are part of the volume control but distance settings do not as they are DSP based.

AV8801 Pure/Direct - Sometimes performs A/D conversion, may apply some DSP processing, bypasses room correction and PEQ, forces the from panel display off.

I have never heard any Denon/Marantz units performing DSP or A/D conversion when PURE DIRECT or DIRECT mode is activated. If your unit is able to do this with Direct or Pure Direct mode activated, then your unit is defective.

 

[RichB]

That statement is FALSE. A few people may hear improvement when all Video circuits are bypassed in Pure Direct Mode, just like a few people may hear improvement when they passive bi-amp.

So you may not be getting "TRUE PURE DIRECT" if the video circuit is still 100% active.

Please read my posts carefully.
I said:

There is no real definitions of Pure/Direct each manufacturer picks there own.

I also said the "illuminating the front panel" which is NOT "Video Circuits".
Go ahead and make your own defintion of Pure Direct if you like, but I would ask you not to attribute them to me and claim falsehood. Nothing was false in my post.

I have never heard any Denon/Marantz units performing DSP, Room Correction or A/D conversion when PURE DIRECT or DIRECT mode is activated. If your unit is able to do any of these things with Direct or Pure Direct mode activated, then your unit is clearly defective.

I wrote that that in Pure/Direct mode the AV8801 "bypasses room correction and PEQ". Thank you for your vehement agreement with this statement.

I think you may be confusing All DSP processing with REQ/PEQ. DSP's are also used for functions like: Duplicating channels, bass managment, duplicating bass (LFE+MAIN), and channel delays (distance settings).

If you want to discuss these topics, fine. if you have another purpose, I'll pass.

- Rich

 

[PENG]

Many claim the AV8802 is a better sounding unit, but until they make a better trigger design, I shall watch from afar

Because of Dr. Rich's article about the OPA, Marantz apparently was forced to replace them with discrete components to preserve the quality of the whole chain though they initially claim the OPA did not make the difference, sort of.. Since the professional reviewers, even you and I read and know about it, all subsequent reviewers were biased and prepared to hear the difference. If you write to the right technical people in Marantz, I bet they will tell you if you don't need the new features, there is nothing to gain upgrading to the 8802 in terms of SQ. I strongly believe for H.T., 8801, 4520, 7200, 7707 makes no difference in SQ, for music you need a separate system. So I am watching from afar too.