Audio Power Cables / Cords - Do they really make a difference?

[TLS Guy]

Hmm, maybe I am grossly overestimating how much power I am using. The amp is a crown xls5000, and it IS capable of drawing 26a continuous. As is the QSC rmx5050a and all of its sister amps.

I'm pretty sure I can draw transient peaks of well over 20amps on my 20 amp circuit. 20a circuits are designed to take up to 20a continuous, although I've been told <80% of that is recommend.

Again, I'm talking in theory here, in not saying I'm going to hear anything and I'm certainly not suggesting anyone should go out and buy a overpriced aftermarket PC

I think you are grossly over estimating. If you did draw that power for even more than the briefest instant, there is no voice coil around that would not smoke.

I also have a strong suspicion that the power available from those digital amps like Crown are grossly embellished.

 

[nickwin]

I think you are grossly over estimating. If you did draw that power for even more than the briefest instant, there is no voice coil around that would not smoke.

I also have a strong suspicion that the power available from those digital amps like Crown are grossly embellished.

I won't argue that. Although xls5000 is not one of those amps. It has a linear power supply, dual 1500va toroidals (hence the high current draw).

 

[nickwin]

A quick Google tells me that most homes are wired with 12 to 14 gauge. With that in mind I'm going to have to agree that I can't see it make any difference whatsoever in practice.

Now at the amplifier outputs assuming you have unlimited power input like if you're using power distribution, it could technically make a difference.

I'll admit to using the blanket statement the power cords can never make a difference, but it sounds like you have to add *on standard residential electric* to make that a true statement.

 

[Speedskater]

You can run lots & lots of current through a circuit breaker for a little while without tripping the breaker! For example a 15 Amp breaker is rated to carry 15 Amps continuously and continuously in the case is 3 or more hours. So if you put 15 Amps of old-fashioned incandescent light bulbs on that circuit they will operate till you turn them off. Now after they cool down you turn them back on they will draw 150 Amps for a fraction of a second (till they warm-up). But the 15 Amp breaker will still be happy.

 

[Speedskater]

One day I measured several IEC cords in my spares box with a very expensive Ohm-meter. I was surprised to see that some had way more end-to-end resistance than the printed AWG # would indicate.

So an over-sized cord might be a good idea if you're in the market for a cord, but please don't come back and say how great it sounds.

 

[highfigh]

If we're talking continuous probably never, but powering a pair of 18's, I don't think it's out of the question. If we're talking peak then probably quite frequently.

I'm pretty far into the PC's make no difference camp, I've never seen an argument for them that made ant real sense to me. But then I saw that graph and if I'm understanding it right they technically could make a difference in some situations, and maybe even in my own case.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not expecting miracles or even any audible change whatsoever, but in theory there could be some benifit, no?

Good point about the PC, just being a small piece of a chain. You could say the same thing about speaker cable gauge vs internal wire gauge (being much thinner) though, but we all know gauge still matters with speaker cable. It also begs the question, what gauge wire is used for the power lines in residential homes?

The diameter of the driver has nothing to do with the power demand. By that logic, I would have needed to connect my 30" EV woofers to the 220VAC service feed, in order to reach a usable SLP for 60Hz. They're rated for 65W.

Look at the spec sheet again- does it show 26A peak output current? That's much different from current draw. BTW- the spec sheet shows frequency response of 22- 20KHz@1W, but no full power bandwidth. These days, amplifiers are usually rated at 1KHz so they can show the maximum power output, but that's only a usable number if you only want to use 1KHz. Full band power is usually very different and it's a sad state when an amplifier manufacturer doesn't have the stones to post ALL of the specs that show an amplifier to be useful, or not. Sure, it's rated at 5KW in bridge mode into a 4 Ohm load, but in a residential application, that's useless at normal listening levels. Anyone who thinks they cam expose their ears to 120dB+ for more than a few minutes without permanent hearing damage is either in denial or full of crap.

FYI- 26A on a 120VAC circuit won't achieve the power rating for that amp, even on a circuit that can handle 30A . Do the math- the truth will set you free. The only way that amp will draw close to 26A at 5000W is on a 220V/50Hz or 230/240VAC/60Hz circuit that's sized appropriately.

 

[mtrycrafts]

...
Look at the spec sheet again- does it show 26A peak output current? That's much different from current draw. BTW- the spec sheet shows frequency response of 22- 20KHz@1W, but no full power bandwidth. These days,
.

Here is the power rating:
Power (per channel) 1 kHz Continuous Average Power with 0.1% THD
4 Ohms 1800W
8 Ohms 1100 W

So, while it is at 1kHz, full bandwidth only suffers a 15% reduction, approximately.
So, it is a powerful amp.

 

[haraldo]

I need power

20 Ampere is not gonna do it

 

[fmw]

Hmm, maybe I am grossly overestimating how much power I am using. The amp is a crown xls5000, and it IS capable of drawing 26a continuous. As is the QSC rmx5050a and all of its sister amps.

I'm pretty sure I can draw transient peaks of well over 20amps on my 20 amp circuit. 20a circuits are designed to take up to 20a continuous, although I've been told <80% of that is recommend.

Again, I'm talking in theory here, in not saying I'm going to hear anything and I'm certainly not suggesting anyone should go out and buy a overpriced aftermarket PC

It doesn't make any sense to me to estimating current draw. You need to measure it. If your whole audio system draws 26 amps, something is seriously wrong.

 

[nickwin]

It doesn't make any sense to me to estimating current draw. You need to measure it. If your whole audio system draws 26 amps, something is seriously wrong.

Whats so nonsensical about going by a reputable manufacturers spec? Especially keeping in mind that this is a spec that buyers want low, the company has no motive to make it look artificially high. I agree an actual measurement would be ideal, but where do you draw the line? Do you measure every single spec of your electronics yourself for fear that the manufacturer might have got it wrong?

And for the record the manufacturer specs for the XLS5000 are:

• 1600x2 20-20,000hz Continuous Average Power with 0.1% THD at 4 ohms .
• 26.9 amps current draw, 1/3 power pink noise, 4 ohms.

I do believe both of those specs are on a 120v line, although I guess I'm not 100% positive on that.

 

[fmw]

No I don't. But I know that a 26 amp current draw in home audio doesn't happen. You aren't likely to use more than 20 or 30 of those 1600 watts per channel. You won't draw 26 amps.

 

[nickwin]

No I don't. But I know that a 26 amp current draw in home audio doesn't happen.

Probably not, not intentionally anyways. My understanding of 1/3 power pink noise is that its equivalent to severe clipping, not something you try to do. That said, this single amp is capable of drawing 26+ amps, its certinaly plausible that an entire home audio system could draw well over that for short durations and I'm sure it does happen, especially when your talking about multiple large class A/B amps.

20-30 watts? We must use our subs very differently. 88db/watt takes 1000 watts to hit 105db at 12ft distance. This is a modest 10db below reference. Add 3db of EQ on top of that and your demanding well over 1600 watts. I do agree that 26 amps is really extreme for a home audio system but you start talking about 1600x2, 600x2 and 350x5, all class a/b, plus a couple amps here and there from other electronics and the max current draw starts to add up.

 

[fmw]

Probably not, not intentionally anyways. My understanding of 1/3 power pink noise is that its equivalent to severe clipping, not something you try to do. That said, this single amp is capable of drawing 26+ amps, its certinaly plausible that an entire home audio system could draw well over that for short durations and I'm sure it does happen, especially when your talking about multiple large class A/B amps.

20-30 watts? We must use our subs very differently. 88db/watt takes 1000 watts to hit 105db at 12ft distance. This is a modest 10db below reference. Add 3db of EQ on top of that and your demanding well over 1600 watts. I do agree that 26 amps is really extreme for a home audio system but you start talking about 1600x2, 600x2 and 350x5, all class a/b, plus a couple amps here and there from other electronics and the max current draw starts to add up.

It shouldn't take more than 100 to 200 watts in a room to reach those levels. I'm guessing your estimate is based on anechoic calculations. As you know boundary gain affects bass frequencies the most. We do use our subs differently. I wouldn't want to be in the same room with 105 db of sound pressure.

 

[nickwin]

It shouldn't take more than 100 to 200 watts in a room to reach those levels. I'm guessing your estimate is based on anechoic calculations. As you know boundary gain affects bass frequencies the most. We do use our subs differently. I wouldn't want to be in the same room with 105 db of sound pressure.

What can I say I like it loud. Im talking about peaks in movies hitting that level, not continuous. According to OSHA 105db for less than an hour a day, every single day, will not cause hearing damage. In an average movie im probably only exposed to that level for a few minutes.

As far as what's comfortable that's totally relative. My listening habits may seem extreme to you but there's plenty of people who think I'm tame. Making the blanket statement that this kind of current draw NEVER happens is just inaccurate. My system is very modest capared to some of what's out there and it's capable of this kind of draw. That said ill concede that it probably never actually hits those levels in use.

 

[fmw]

What can I say I like it loud. Im talking about peaks in movies hitting that level, not continuous. According to OSHA 105db for less than an hour a day, every single day, will not cause hearing damage. In an average movie im probably only exposed to that level for a few minutes.

As far as what's comfortable that's totally relative. My listening habits may seem extreme to you but there's plenty of people who think I'm tame. Making the blanket statement that this kind of current draw NEVER happens is just inaccurate. My system is very modest capared to some of what's out there and it's capable of this kind of draw. That said ill concede that it probably never actually hits those levels in use.

If it happens sometimes then it happens very, very rarely. I wasn't suggesting that 105db is dangerous, only that it is too loud for most people.

 

[nickwin]

If it happens sometimes then it happens very, very rarely. I wasn't suggesting that 105db is dangerous, only that it is too loud for most people.

Ok, I can agree with that one

One thing I have noticed with listening levels is that what's comfortable is very dependent on the reverberancy of the room and the frequency response as well as the tastes of the individal person. In an untreated room with a peaky freq response iv found -15db (LFE peaks of 100db) to be unpleasantly loud but in my current room with eq and room treatment -10db (105db LFE peaks) is loud but totally enjoyable. That said its still loud at that level and some people do find it uncomfortable.

 

[Speedskater]

Does the amplifier in question have a 20 Amp plug on its cord? or a 20 Amp IEC chassis connector?
We have to remember that the rating for a 20 Amp circuit breaker is a 3 hour continuous rating. Music and movie peaks are nowhere near continuous.

 

[nickwin]

Good point and yes it has a 20a iec.

 

[Speedskater]

If the amp has a 20 Amp IEC, then the cord has to have a 20 Amp plug, then the wall outlet has to have a 20 Amp receptacle, then the circuit has to have a 20 Amp circuit breaker.

 

[nickwin]

If the amp has a 20 Amp IEC, then the cord has to have a 20 Amp plug, then the wall outlet has to have a 20 Amp receptacle, then the circuit has to have a 20 Amp circuit breaker.

Yes, that's how 20 amp gear works.

You can run it on a 15a outlet with an adapter, just not anywhere near full power. Up until the point where the 15a breaker trips you will get the same current off a 15a circuit as a 20a. I've heard of people blowing 20 amp circuits with these but only when running it at 2 ohms, and only with test tones.