Audio Power Cables / Cords - Do they really make a difference?

[lovinthehd]

Why, what would be gained other than a placebo effect? You just like to spend money needlessly?

 

[haraldo]

Why, what would be gained other than a placebo effect? You just like to spend money needlessly?

Plz read my post carefully!

 

[lovinthehd]

Plz read my post carefully!

I did. Are you trying to express sarcasm in that post? Hard to tell if so.

 

[haraldo]

No, I'm stating that I don't take any side, just referring to a post about a guy that was a proclaimed anti-cable guy...

And if he's a nutcase I don't see your point... Here are some other nutcases...
Sir Isac Newton was considered a mental nutcase at his time...

Beethoven went his own way in a way that people called him crazy, he needed a shrink

Abraham Lincoln was suffering from severe depression, he was suffering from huge depression but was still well enough to be US president

Ernest Hemingway most of his family committed suicide up to the point that he was extremely out of balance, he won the nobel price and pulitzer price

John Forbes Nash Jr. suffered from paranoid schizofrenia, he got a doctorate from Princeton and won a Nobel price in economics, watch the movie a beautiful mind

Other people that's been considered nutcases: Winston Churchill, Vincent Van Gogh

Listening to nutcases can be quite good

 

[lovinthehd]

No, I'm stating that I don't take any side, just referring to a post about a guy that was a proclaimed anti-cable guy...

And if he's a nutcase I don't see your point... Here are some other nutcases...
Sir Isac Newton was considered a mental nutcase at his time...

Beethoven went his own way in a way that people called him crazy, he needed a shrink

Abraham Lincoln was suffering from severe depression, he was suffering from huge depression but was still well enough to be US president

Ernest Hemingway most of his family committed suicide up to the point that he was extremely out of balance, he won the nobel price and pulitzer price

John Forbes Nash Jr. suffered from paranoid schizofrenia, he got a doctorate from Princeton and won a Nobel price in economics, watch the movie a beautiful mind

Other people that's been considered nutcases: Winston Churchill, Vincent Van Gogh

Listening to nutcases can be quite good

Not in this case, this is just a plain old nutcase. If that's where you like to stand, go for it!

 

[haraldo]

Not in this case, this is just a plain old nutcase. If that's where you like to stand, go for it!

Wow, you seem to be awfully tense in there today
I just simply want the best musical experience I can get, period!

 

[Jaybeez]

I suppose someday I may go the route of new power cables. To me, the impact on sound quality seems questionable, and I have other upgrades that would probably make a much bigger difference.
I have discussed this issue with Electrical Engineers and Electricians with much experience, and while not audiophiles, they aren't clear how the last meter of current can really be upgraded significantly when the average stock power cable is already of higher quality than most peoples' home wiring, not to mention the public utility system.

 

[MR.MAGOO]

Well, I'm glad I didn't ruin any disks! I did buy some gold MFSL ones though and wondered if I was out of my mind.

MFSL = Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab? Now I'm inspired to do a comparison test, I've got MFSL cd's of "Dark Side of the Moon" and Boz Scaggs "Silk Degrees". I'll try to find non-MFSL discs for comparison.

 

[lovinthehd]

Wow, you seem to be awfully tense in there today
I just simply want the best musical experience I can get, period!

Just tired of the wire/cable nonsense in general and the power cord thing tops that list. If you want the best musical experience get out and listen to some actual music played by musicians instead of wire/cable....or even just a good tecording.

 

[Jaybeez]

Just tired of the wire/cable nonsense in general and the power cord thing tops that list. If you want the best musical experience get out and listen to some actual music played by musicians instead of wire/cable....or even just a good tecording.

As the father of a musician I thank you!

 

[haraldo]

Just tired of the wire/cable nonsense in general and the power cord thing tops that list. If you want the best musical experience get out and listen to some actual music played by musicians instead of wire/cable....or even just a good tecording.

In this sense I agree with you, the best musical experience ever, probably... was going to Musicverein in Vienna

 

[haraldo]

there are a few things I simply don't understand....

1. Ayre Acoustics
Charles Hansen, founder of Avalon Acoustics and the later Ayre, chief designer at Ayre claimes that he uses a special "machine" that simply generates sine waves from 20 Hz to 20 Khz before doing critical auditioning or demoing. He simply runs this through the system... and of course there is absolutely no measurable difference before and after, but it's claimed that this strange thing makes an audible difference that everyone around can hear... I reckon Charles Hansen is an extremely clever guy that makes stunning electronics, but he is absolutely lost for words and have no idea about why and how this can be...

So one out of three:
- is Charles Hansen Crazy?
- is Charles Hansen he in the snake oil business?
- is there a chance there are things we don't understand?
- is there a fourth option?

2. Vandersteen Audio
Richard Vandersteen uses a 9 volt battery in the crossovers of his statemen model 5 and model 7 series speakers, claiming that this makes an unmistakble difference to the performance of his top of the line speekers. I imagine this is something Mr Vandersteen easily can prove with 100% precision to anyone attending his demos.

So one out of three:
- is Richard Vandersteen, one of the most respected loudspeaker deisgners in the world, Crazy?
- is Richard Vandersteen in the snake oil business?
- is there a chance there are things we don't understand?
- is there a fourth option?

3. Mark Levinson AS
In 1978, MLAS, Ltd. was using a wire-wound volume control in a preamplifier. The controls became noisy over time, so they switched to a precision conductive plastic part. The distributor in Japan complained that the sound was not as good. Chief engineer Tom Colangelo installed a three position switch in a preamplifier. In the center position, the audio signal was attenuated with two precision resistors. To the right, the volume was attenuated by the wire-wound volume control, and to the left, by the conductive plastic part. Levels were matched within 0,1dB. Bandwidth was likewise matched. All three positions measured the same for frequency response, noise, THD and IM to the residual levels of the precision laboratory test equipment.

They found that the conductive plastic part was identical sonically to the precision resistor divider. The wire-wound part introduced a warmer sound and was less bright. This was consistently heard by everyone who auditioned, most of whom did not know which position was which.
It was a specific Ella Fitzgerald track being used. The results were 100% conclusive. Yet, there was no measurable difference. MLAS did every test carefully and correctly. Based on this test, the conductive plastic part was accepted.

What did they miss?.
Yes, they looked for ringing and did square wave tests - all three positions identical. What was missed?

So one out of three:
- is Mark Levinson Crazy?
- is Mark Levinson in the snake oil business?
- is there a chance there are things we don't understand?
- is there a fourth option?

Anyone that can shed light on this, I'm lost....

 

[lovinthehd]

there are a few things I simply don't understand....

1. Ayre Acoustics
Charles Hansen, founder of Avalon Acoustics and the later Ayre, chief designer at Ayre claimes that he uses a special "machine" that simply generates sine waves from 20 Hz to 20 Khz before doing critical auditioning or demoing. He simply runs this through the system... and of course there is absolutely no measurable difference before and after, but it's claimed that this strange thing makes an audible difference that everyone around can hear... I reckon Charles Hansen is an extremely clever guy that makes stunning electronics, but he is absolutely lost for words and have no idea about why and how this can be...

So one out of three:
- is Charles Hansen Crazy?
- is Charles Hansen he in the snake oil business?
- is there a chance there are things we don't understand?
- is there a fourth option?

2. Vandersteen Audio
Richard Vandersteen uses a 9 volt battery in the crossovers of his statemen model 5 and model 7 series speakers, claiming that this makes an unmistakble difference to the performance of his top of the line speekers. I imagine this is something Mr Vandersteen easily can prove with 100% precision to anyone attending his demos.

So one out of three:
- is Richard Vandersteen, one of the most respected loudspeaker deisgners in the world, Crazy?
- is Richard Vandersteen in the snake oil business?
- is there a chance there are things we don't understand?
- is there a fourth option?

3. Mark Levinson AS
In 1978, MLAS, Ltd. was using a wire-wound volume control in a preamplifier. The controls became noisy over time, so they switched to a precision conductive plastic part. The distributor in Japan complained that the sound was not as good. Chief engineer Tom Colangelo installed a three position switch in a preamplifier. In the center position, the audio signal was attenuated with two precision resistors. To the right, the volume was attenuated by the wire-wound volume control, and to the left, by the conductive plastic part. Levels were matched within 0,1dB. Bandwidth was likewise matched. All three positions measured the same for frequency response, noise, THD and IM to the residual levels of the precision laboratory test equipment.

They found that the conductive plastic part was identical sonically to the precision resistor divider. The wire-wound part introduced a warmer sound and was less bright. This was consistently heard by everyone who auditioned, most of whom did not know which position was which.
It was a specific Ella Fitzgerald track being used. The results were 100% conclusive. Yet, there was no measurable difference. MLAS did every test carefully and correctly. Based on this test, the conductive plastic part was accepted.

What did they miss?.
Yes, they looked for ringing and did square wave tests - all three positions identical. What was missed?

So one out of three:
- is Mark Levinson Crazy?
- is Mark Levinson in the snake oil business?
- is there a chance there are things we don't understand?
- is there a fourth option?

Anyone that can shed light on this, I'm lost....

So the point being you are a fan of cables with unexplainable electronic tweaks incorporated into the cable to alter the signal that make a "difference" that some may or may not find audible?

 

[mtrycrafts]

Anyone that can shed light on this, I'm lost....

Certainly. Doubt they are crazy as they are in business, scratch the first.
Scratch the 3rd as well. We know enough to test for audibility of things.
The 2nd is not totally accurate, doubt that is why they got into business at first.
So, I would say a forth. They are businessmen to make money and know that people are gullible and snake oil claims sell.

 

[MR.MAGOO]

Buy Monster cable, that way you know you're paying too much.

 

[Speedskater]

As to Charles Hansen, Richard Vandersteen and Mark Levinson, they all made those statements while wearing their marketing department hats. If they were wearing their engineering hats, they would have investigated further. Was there an uncontrolled variable or error in their tests? If not a skilled engineer should be able to find the reason for the differences.

So it would seem that they must have been wearing their marketing hats.

 

[Craig Gordon]

I have what most might call "Golden Ears". I can say without a doubt that audio cables make a huge difference. I tried my system the other day without any cables, and I definitely heard the difference.

Although I do recommend Nordost WHITELIGHT Glass Fiber Optic Cables – (about $33,000) because nothing transmits 1's and 0's better. Inferior cables often transmit a random number. Its infuriating.

 

[TLS Guy]

I have what most might call "Golden Ears". I can say without a doubt that audio cables make a huge difference. I tried my system the other day without any cables, and I definitely heard the difference.

Keep that up and you will make an excellent member here!

 

[MR.MAGOO]

and I noticed a big difference when electrical power is used!

 

[haraldo]

So the point being you are a fan of cables with unexplainable electronic tweaks incorporated into the cable to alter the signal that make a "difference" that some may or may not find audible?

No, I'm not!

I'm a fan of sitting down in the evening with a glass of whitewine with my wife and have an incredibly nice evening with nice music....

I'm a fan of going to musicverein in Vienna listeining to the best musicians on the planet....
(read: This is where the new years concerts from Vienna takes place)

I'm a fan of great musical experiences....

I'm a fan of Kate Bush (music wise)....

I'm fan of transmission line speakers....
(Meadowlark audio)

I'm a fan of small, simple two way studio monitors

I'm a fan of working hard....

I'm a fan at how the Norwegians at Seas over and over again are making world class drivers used all over the world in benchmark designs....

And I Don't think a person should be called an idiot simply because we don't understand or can't explain what the heck is going on