Comparison of Super Subwoofers for Home Theater!

[3db]

The F25 has been out much longer than a year- here is a preview article about it from Audioholics from 2006! However, I think its availability was spotty until recently. As for the RBH sub with its 12"s, those 12"s are accompanied by a gigantic 6" port, which enable it to roughly double the output of the FV15HP below 20 Hz. The RBH is a beast, but a very pricey one.

I know for a fact that it wasn't available (listed on Rythmik's web page) when I was choosing my Rythmik sub back in 2012. I remember seeing its availability for the first time this year. Maybe it was on the drawing board but definitely not available until this year.

 

[shadyJ]

I seem to remember reading about some people getting their F25s a few years back, can't remember when though. If I remember right, Rythmik mentioned something about trouble figuring out a way to reliably ship the F25 which is what precluded its availability. I may be wrong though.

One thing I would have liked to have seen from Rythmik is a dual opposed design using the DS1510 drivers, that would have been a killer sub!

 

[TLS Guy]

That 24" Deep Sea Sound thing fascinates me. I'm not sure why, it's not like I need it, I mean I already have a Bassaholic Extreme rated sub, and I'm not even stressing it. But its a puny little 18" thing. It costs about $200K to have the meanest Porsche sports car, but for less than $5K I could have the biggest, meanest-looking sub, that's probably capable of structural damage, and would certainly elicit all sorts of "Oh my gods" from guests. I doubt it would sound any different in my room. I think subs cause mental illness.

My thoughts exactly.

I can't wait to see a sub enthusiast on major network breaking news after making his house look as if it has been hit by an F6 Tornado.

Surely we are well past the point where a sub is capable of producing a shock wave that could push out the walls and windows.

I don't have a sub and that is one of my worries. My room is not a basement space. On quite a few movies shock waves hit my chest and the floor visibly moves. I have actually on occasions turned down the volume for fear of structural damage.

My four bass drivers equals two 15" drivers. They are not even true sub drivers. However I'm certain they could do structural damage. My calculations showed that they could produce a damaging shock wave. Total power available for the last octave and half is 1000 watts. Puny by what we are talking about here. However I doubt I have only ever used a fraction of the power available.

Yes, I think these subs could cause brain damage by concussion!

Now granted some of these subs are sealed and likely terminally inefficient. However some are substantial ported designs that should really couple to the space, and can't imagine a fraction of the power available ever being required.

 

[shadyJ]

Now granted some of these subs are sealed and likely terminally inefficient.

Many of the sealed subs in this article have a pretty high sensitivity, so they are not that inefficient. The HS24 24" driver has a sensitivity of 91 dB 1w/1m. The TSAD21v2 driver in the Funk Audio sub is 95 dB 1w/1m. The Drivers in the JTR Cap S2 are 97 dB 1w/1m, and the Reaction Gamma 21 driver is 93.4 dB sensitive at 1w/1m.

 

[Irvrobinson]

I have actually on occasions turned down the volume for fear of structural damage.

Some minor damage actually happened to me. When I first got the DD18+, I was doing some testing for placement. I used test tones, and once I found what I thought was the optimum spot, I turned up the volume on a 20Hz test tone. It sounded distortion-free and awesome, and was making me nauseous. After about ten seconds I saw something fall from the ceiling. It turned out to be some spackle covering a nail head. The revealed nail head was dark colored, and stood out against the painted white ceiling. Since the ceiling is about 20 feet high at that spot, the fix required scaffolding to patch it. It cost me dearly to fix that one nail head when we put the house up for sale.

 

[TLS Guy]

Many of the sealed subs in this article have a pretty high sensitivity, so they are not that inefficient. The HS24 24" driver has a sensitivity of 91 dB 1w/1m. The TSAD21v2 driver in the Funk Audio sub is 95 dB 1w/1m. The Drivers in the JTR Cap S2 are 97 dB 1w/1m, and the Reaction Gamma 21 driver is 93.4 dB sensitive at 1w/1m.

In a sealed enclosure the driver sensitivity is only a small part of the equation and tells you little of the sensitivity at 20 Hz and below.

The point is that in a sealed enclosure F3 is always far above Fs, and so 12 db boost per octave has to start a little above F3 to produce any decent bass. There is no free lunch and the penalty for small enclosure size and a sealed design is always monstrous inefficiency.

In addition there is a strict inverse relationship between sensitivity and driver bass extension. The high sensitivities of the drivers you mention are going to make for very high F3s before Eq.

As I have stated many times a loudspeaker cone is a terrible coupler to the environmental acoustic space.

When you work with speakers you come to understand why a double bass is the size it is, a piano sound board is the size it is and the 32 ft organ stop case is so massive.

To be really efficient in the deep bass a speaker enclosure has to be very large. The fact that my speakers are essentially Gedeckt organ pipes, and sized just like those of a pipe organ would be allows these speakers to produce prodigious bass with little amp power, pretty small cone excursions and no fuss.

 

[XIANV]

XIANV the answer is it depends. They may be able to generate more output and dig deeper, but four subwoofers will be able to address room modes, and create a flatter response over more listening area.

That's exactly what I was getting at. This article seems to emphasize equipment fetish more than how to get good sound in your listening room. Compare it to "Does Price Determine Quality in Home Theater Equipment?," which ran only 2 days earlier. I'd prefer more articles like "Does Price..."

It also depends on what you mean to be 'normal subs'. Are you talking about the common mini subs which are sold at electronics stores or are you talking about $1k manufacture direct subs from outfits like Hsu or Rythmik?

I was thinking of high-value subs in the $800-1k range, so four would roughly match the average price in this survey. No problems with your examples.

 

[jubi]

Bonjour

En introduction, je veux frapper la sensibilité de aucun membre (membre) de ce forum

Je vraiment besoin d'un avis (avis), je vous livre la réponse de mon créateur d'annonceurs

concernant l'ajout d'une paire de sous-marins genre (genre) gamma 21

Bonjour Patrick,

Si vous voulez mon avis (avis) ce genre (genre) de la boîte est adapté pas du tout dans une utilisation avec votre exclusive GKF Votre choix ne doit pas se fonder uniquement sur des critères de réponse et les pressions. Il est vrai que l'un de 16 à 25 Hz avec une pression en crête a 1m de 117dB, sur le papier laisse rêveur. Mais encore faut bien qu'il (elle) pour comprendre (comprennent) comment ces performances sont obtenues. Le fait est que ce type (chap) de la boîte (comme beaucoup d'autres) sont équipés de haut parleur avec des membranes très lourdes et très important excursion avec une participation forte (vestimentaire) au pouvoir. La tombe donc produit est lourd et peu articulée avec souvent présence de traînage, en raison du temps (météo) prend par le Voyage (mouvement) de la membrane entre son excursion max et sa position initiale . Dans le même temps (en parallèle) elle l'a votre exclusive sont équipés de membranes en papier très légers avec une faible (faible) excursion qui (qui) leur obtenir cette dynamique et des accélérations très rapides avec plus d'un très haut rendement (efficacité) (> a 100db) Pour moi, si vous voulez avoir une tombe aussi élevé que votre GKF exclusive, il est nécessaire d'envisager un système différent et beaucoup plus de taille. Je dirai au moins 2 HP de 38cm, 4 serait mieux (présentant les mêmes caratéristiques que celle de votre exclusive) répartis en 2 ou 4 boîtes a grand volume de charge (la responsabilité), il revenir naturellement du haut rendement dans la tombe et protéger ainsi la dynamique et l'articulation (articulation) de la tombe. Une fois de plus mettre une boîte simple avec un 31 ou 38cm comme un supplément à votre exclusive qui sont équipés chacun de 2 x 38cm pour le moyen tombe est pas cohérent. Maintenant, le choix de ce type (chap) de la boîte est souvent lié (relié) a une préoccupation (souci) de dimensions (congestion) pour voir du budget (bien que souvent très cher (chère) tout de même) mais pour moi, ne présentent pas une solution qualitative, ou du moins pas avec votre exclusive, dans le cadre d'un Haut -fidelity écoute. Expérimenté si vous le souhaitez, et peut être que ce type (chap) de la boîte sera pour vous satisfaire. Sinon, je peux vous suggérer de vous étudier une solution cohérente. Ou alors pas ajouté aucun boîtes et utilisé votre exclusive seulement. Je rester a naturellement votre arrangement (mesure),

Très Cordialement, - GKF- Romain Yosmayan.

 

[shadyJ]

Jubi, if I understand you correctly, you are saying that these high-excursion woofers move slowly and are not articulate due to their large throw and weight. I disagree. If a woofer moves too slowly to track the signal, it will show up in measurements. All of the woofers in this article have very powerful motors, and have no problem tracking the signal. The 24" HS24 woofer was measured and found to have a quicker decay and less group delay than JL Audio subs which are supposedly the gold standard for audiophile subwoofers (an opinion I do not hold).

You are recommending 15" subs by the reasoning that somehow they can accelerate faster due to lower moving mass. This is incorrect for a lot of reasons. The full equation you have to consider is how much moving mass driven by how much force, and how far the moving mass can be pushed before it loses linearity. Also consider that the further a cone moves away from the center position of its rest point, the further it movies away from the location of greatest magnetic force. Consider that a cone on the driver of the 24" HS24 only has to move 1/4 the distance of a 12" woofer to generate the same output. By staying closer to its rest position, it can track the signal with much greater linearity than a woofer which has to move a lot further to produce the same output level.

 

[jubi]

Bonjour shadyJ

It est pas mon opinion (Avis), Mais Celui DU createur de mes haut-parleurs!

You suggest me The Deep Sea Sound Mariana 24!

 

[shadyJ]

Bonjour shadyJ

It est pas mon opinion (Avis), Mais Celui DU createur de mes haut-parleurs!

You suggest me The Deep Sea Sound Mariana 24!

I was only using the Mariana 24 as an example, but yes, it is a very good subwoofer. You can not go wrong with it (if you can handle the size, weight, and price).

 

[jubi]

Hello shady

I have an offer of jérémy of audio reaction:

If you so desire, we can still do pair of Gamma 21 with Power ICE 1400w for $3500

shipped to France + 20% TTC

Thank you

Jeremy

How compares two gamma 21 with Power ICE 1400w

Versus 2 X MARIANA 18S versus 1 MARIANA 24SC?

Thank you

 

[shadyJ]

That is a very difficult decision! All are very good subwoofer systems. I think two Mariana 18 vs two Gamma 21 should be very close. I think the Mariana 18s might have an edge because of a more powerful amplifier, but it is more expensive. All are good choices, there is not a bad choice among them.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I would like to see how the MUCH-LESS-expensive RBH SX-1212N + Crown XLS 2500 (or similar) does.

The MSRP is $1500, so sale price would be much less.

 

[lsiberian]

These subs look AMAZING in outdoor testing. But there are no room modes outside.

Would 1 of these subs outperform 4x "normal" subs inside a room at the same total expense?

You could always get 4 of these.

 

[Eddie E]

Really nice stuff but can you in a future review compare subwoofers for us non-wealty audiophiles? Like in the say the $400 to $1000 range. Thanks

 

[shadyJ]

Really nice stuff but can you in a future review compare subwoofers for us non-wealty audiophiles? Like in the say the $400 to $1000 range. Thanks

Audioholics does have a comparison like that with this $500 subwoofer roundup article. It is slightly old but most of the information in it is still relevant. The only thing to change would be to replace the no-longer-available EMP Tek ES1010i with the EMP Tek I-12. A $1000 roundup would be good article though.

 

[jubi]

Hello the guys

I Ordered the purchase of the gamma 21 With the ampli of Power to speakpower sp 3200 HT!


He(it) will be also good as the 3x12 XTZ? Distortion SPL Sq etc...

7500 km separates me from Jérémie of audio reaction, What a little frightens me! Apparently,

Jérémie's subwoofers is specially protected for the sea transport! For those whom that interests I

would take 2 or 3 photos

 

[shadyJ]

I think the Gamma 21 should be able to outperform the 3X12 for the most part, except around 20-30 Hz, where the 3X12's port will add a lot of output. If you add the surface of all the woofers of the 3X12, it is the same surface area as a 21" woofer, so, in a way, comparing the Gamma 21 to the 3X12 is a lot alike. The advantage of the Gamma 21 is it will have more stroke, so it can displace more cumulative air than the 3X12. It will be a killer sub, and I would like to see pictures of it when you get it setup. Hopefully it makes it there safely.

 

[jubi]

He shadyj


I contacted audio piercé for the sensibility of their woofer 21 he indicates 94 db / 1w / m-modèle

not modified!


Musically the integrity 24 or 18 is of the level or upper in 21 of audio pierce modified by Jérémy

audio reaction?

It is important for me, because my transfer towards the USA was refused! I i thus a possibility of

correcting my purchase order up to 3900 dollars!

Thank you for the answer