Turntables..Who has one or is considering getting a new one

[anamorphic96]

I should know within 10-20 albums if I will stick with vinyl. The uTurn table will sell in 1-3 days after I post it. I can just sell the vinyl online pretty quickly. This is where I will take a hit depending on how much I end up buying before I decide.

My 5 years at Tower records and another independent record store where the best years of my life. So much fun.

 

[TLS Guy]

Sold my Empire about 5 years ago and now I regret it. Got $350.00 for it and it was in almost new condition.

How did you sell it? I see one recently fetched $1500 on eBay. I would not have parted with it for that money!

 

[TLS Guy]

I beg to differ!

About 15 to 20 years ago was the BEST time to experiment with vinyl. Back then, CDs were all the rage, so many a vinyl could be had dirt cheap!

My college days, we had a record shop right across the street from campus, I would spend a couple hours in there just about every Friday between classes. I would often score 3 used LPs for the price of 1 new CD.

I have some records that I paid $10 for, now those are worth $50+

As the CD became so rapidly popular, it honestly never occurred to me that vinyl would make such a comeback and vintage turntables fetch such jaw dropping sums.

I have never stopped playing vinyl. I have to say though I have not significantly added to my collection with two exceptions. I did buy quite a few LPs out of the estate an audio fanatic in the UK, who was an electronic engineer and avid DIYer. The LPs from that source were all pristine. I also acquired some dbx2 encoded discs, which added interest to the museum aspect of this rig. They are dead quiet in terms of surface noise and the dynamic range is the equal of, or exceeds CD. Since groove modulation is much reduced, bass response is more extended.

I also have some commercially encoded Dolby B and dbx2 encoded reel to reel commercial tapes. That all adds interest to the collection.

Otherwise used LPs have been a disappointment due to poor care.

The LP craze is now coming back to the classical arena.

The sound track of Interstellar is to be issued on LP. That seems strange as that sound track can not be cut to vinyl without drastically reducing the bass output to avoid groove kissing. It will be issued on a two LP set.

The vintage prices really stagger me. Just look at this page on eBay and current Garrard 301 prices. Those two turntables have done better for me than stocks these last few years!

 

[Swerd]

On the subject of vintage turntables, I was talking with my daughter last week. She was in town helping me to clear out some old belongings and household goods from my late mother's home. We are getting ready to sell it, and have to clear out a lot of stuff.

She told me people in her generation (she recently turned 30) value old things made "in the olden days, like back in the 50s or 60s" because they weren't cheap junk like everything is now. She said how there is now a thriving vintage market in clothing and furniture, among other things. That certainly did not exist when I was her age. This idea hadn't occurred to me before.

Just how true this idea that "vintage is better" is depends on the type of item. I certainly disagree that vinyl records and their playback systems are better than CDs. I was around when nothing else existed other than vinyl records, and I witnessed the revolution of digital recording and CDs. But perhaps this idea has influenced the thinking of many people younger than TLS Guy or myself.

On the subject, my mother did have an old stereo, AR turntable (probably with the original Shure M91 pick up), a small Sansui model 800 receiver, two KLH model 17 speakers, and a more recently (1992?) purchased Phillips CD player. I doubt if the receiver is worth much, I know the speakers are poor, but I might be able to sell the turntable on the "vintage" market for a killing .

TLS Guy - what do you know about the value of an AR Xa turntable in apparently good condition?

 

[TLS Guy]

On the subject of vintage turntables, I was talking with my daughter last week. She was in town helping me to clear out some old belongings and household goods from my late mother's home. We are getting ready to sell it, and have to clear out a lot of stuff.

She told me people in her generation (she recently turned 30) value old things made "in the olden days, like back in the 50s or 60s" because they weren't cheap junk like everything is now. She said how there is now a thriving vintage market in clothing and furniture, among other things. That certainly did not exist when I was her age. This idea hadn't occurred to me before.

Just how true this idea that "vintage is better" is depends on the type of item. I certainly disagree that vinyl records and their playback systems are better than CDs. I was around when nothing else existed other than vinyl records, and I witnessed the revolution of digital recording and CDs. But perhaps this idea has influenced the thinking of many people younger than TLS Guy or myself.

On the subject, my mother did have an old stereo, AR turntable (probably with the original Shure M91 pick up), a small Sansui model 800 receiver, two KLH model 17 speakers, and a more recently (1992?) purchased Phillips CD player. I doubt if the receiver is worth much, I know the speakers are poor, but I might be able to sell the turntable on the "vintage" market for a killing .

TLS Guy - what do you know about the value of an AR Xa turntable in apparently good condition?

If the unit is pristine, with a working cartridge and original, about $600 to $700.

If the cover is scratched and there are dings and or scratches on the base, then $150 to $200.

They are a collectible item.

I have always valued all types of quality vintage gear. I think actually the youngsters starting to make their way now are in fact a better more thoughtful lot then our crowd.

One of the reasons my set up is the way it is, is to show off the workmanship of days gone by, and also to show it did and does work well and is fit for purpose.

In addition preserving this gear helps prevent forgetting tricks and technology, that should not be forgotten.

Take my 67 year old tractor the 1948 JD Model A, it will out pull and outwork any modern tractor of equivalent horsepower, use less gas and is more reliable, even in advanced age.

The first reaction of many looking at it is: "What a contraption, that can't be much use." If you put it to work, they soon change their tune.

Same with my old turntables. We had a crowd here at New Year and they got curious about the turntables. I played one of the old famous Sheffield direct pressings and they were totally blown away.

Quite honestly Swerd, I think you have a lower opinion of turntables than is warranted as you have never had your hands on a really well crafted one.

I think if you were here I could change you mind set pretty quickly.

 

[Swerd]

If the unit is pristine, with a working cartridge and original, about $600 to $700.

If the cover is scratched and there are dings and or scratches on the base, then $150 to $200.

They are a collectible item.

Thanks. I'll soon have a closer look at it. Knowing my parents, they probably kept it in very good condition, as they were not rough with anything they owned. I already found a file folder with the original owner's manuals and the bill of sale from when it was purchased! They grew up during the depression, when you didn't buy much and whatever you did buy had to last. In my mother's last decade (she died at 93) she probably rarely if ever operated the stereo.

When they first got that stereo, my father commented "that's a lot of money for a radio".

I have always valued all types of quality vintage gear. I think actually the youngsters starting to make their way now are in fact a better more thoughtful lot then our crowd.

Yes, times are different now. When I came of age in the 1960s, no one wanted old stuff from before WWII, it was old and badly worn. And much of what had been made in the US after the war was already truly obsolete. I told my daughter that much of what was made back then she really wouldn't want, but she would never see it as it hasn't lasted.

Quite honestly Swerd, I think you have a lower opinion of turntables than is warranted as you have never had your hands on a really well crafted one.

I won't dispute that. The AR turntable was the lowest price turntable available that didn't mangle the sound or destroy the vinyl. I believe, at the time, it cost $70, and the Shure cartridge was another $20. An English, German, or Swiss made turntable easily cost double or triple that. The Japanese turntables had not yet appeared in the US.

 

[TLS Guy]

Thanks. I'll soon have a closer look at it. Knowing my parents, they probably kept it in very good condition, as they were not rough with anything they owned. I already found a file folder with the original owner's manuals and the bill of sale from when it was purchased! They grew up during the depression, when you didn't buy much and whatever you did buy had to last. In my mother's last decade (she died at 93) she probably rarely if ever operated the stereo.

When they first got that stereo, my father commented "that's a lot of money for a radio".
Yes, times are different now. When I came of age in the 1960s, no one wanted old stuff from before WWII, it was old and badly worn. And much of what had been made in the US after the war was already truly obsolete. I told my daughter that much of what was made back then she really wouldn't want, but she would never see it as it hasn't lasted.
I won't dispute that. The AR turntable was the lowest price turntable available that didn't mangle the sound or destroy the vinyl. I believe, at the time, it cost $70, and the Shure cartridge was another $20. An English, German, or Swiss made turntable easily cost double or triple that. The Japanese turntables had not yet appeared in the US.

Reading your previous post, I see I have further work to do on your mindset.

I see you dismissed the Sansui 800 receiver. They are actually a good older receiver. I bought one once to play background music at our satellite Drayton clinic back in 1976, it was second hand then.

With the owners manual and original receipt and as long as it is working condition, it is worth at a minimum $200 and likely it would fetch a bit more. You see, I bet it works and works well.

Now this should have occurred to me in the previous post, as I have a sense that your daughter might like that rig. If she updated the speakers it would sound excellent. With a DAC from the optical out from a TV, it could greatly improve TV sound.

If she were my daughter and she had shown interest, I would ask her if she wanted it before selling it on.

As it happens I'm checking out an early Dyanco solid state rig for my eldest grandson. This was purchased by my friend Phil Marin in the Vietnam era, when he was drafted. I have the receipt etc. as well. One day Phil was careless and shorted the speaker leads and blew the output stage. I repaired it for him. A little while later the power supply board developed a major problem, and I fixed it again. It has worked fine since. After a few years he bought a more powerful rig and gave it to me. It has been used by at least three of my children. My youngest son has just given it back to me, and now my eldest grandson has dibs on it.

As soon as I am done with it, I will post pictures. But hopefully you are already getting the "picture" about vintage gear as this discussion progresses.

 

[TLS Guy]

Well, Swerd, vintage has turned up trumps again. Those KLH 17 are sought after and restoration recommended.

They are mid sixties and designed by the founder of KLH, the great Harry Kloss.
He was a brilliant engineer and designer. He sold 17 million KLH products and then decided to sell out.

Now comes the part where your daughter is correct, and its infuriating. The company was bought by Singer sewing machine. Corporate rot, that far back, as a sewing machine company has no business buying an audio company, but concentrate on making better sewing machines. This did not happen, they made worse sewing machines.

They sell KLH again and then the Far Eastern boys get their muckers on KLH and the rest is history and not a happy one.

The woofers do not have foam surrounds, so no rot, but cloth and should be resealed.

Here is a good post showing how to get a pair of KLH 17s back as good as new in four hours.

If nothing but for your own education, you should get this rig up and running and see for your self what it does. Probably you will have a happy surprise and find those speakers better than a lot and most in Best Buy right now.

Do not assume because this seems to be a 50 year old rig it is no good.

 

[Swerd]

Thanks for all the input on these older stereo items. I was not aware of any of their resale values. On some items, I'm way ahead of you. On others, not so much.

I did offer the entire stereo rig to my daughter, however she's not interested. I was disappointed about that, but not surprised. She has nabbed some other good stuff, all of it non-audio. My mother had a German-made Pfaff sewing machine that was bought around 1960. I learned that it is highly valued today. It, of course, still works well, even though it is rather complex.

I am well aware of the KLH name and history. The Model 17 speaker was a very big seller, but not one of their better designs, such as the KLH 6. The 17 is a large 2-way speaker with a sealed 8" woofer and roughly 1.5" or 2" cone tweeter. The bass is good, but the sound has a large dip in the mid range. However, these are sins of omission, it doesn't suffer any major sins of commission. The crossover is typical of the 1960s – too minimalist. And I doubt if any crossover could fill in where that 8" fails in the upper mid range. The very upper ranges of the tweeter fall off by today's standards, but that is less of a problem. The speakers work, I recently tried them, so I will sell them.

Thanks for the link on the KLH 17 repair. I could certainly do that.

You did surprise me about the Sansui 800 receiver. In the US during the late 1960s, Sansui was the among the first Japanese manufacturers to enter the stereo receiver market. For a few years, they were the top selling maker. By the mid 1970s, Sansui had developed a poor reputation because some of their models were failure prone. I don't know which models were the culprits, it probably was their more powerful models. I doubt the 800 receiver was one because it was much more modestly powered with a claimed 22 watts/channel, if I recall. It was easily enough to drive the KLH 17s.

As a result, Sansui lost its status among American buyers, while its mainly Japanese competitors, Pioneer, Yamaha, Kenwood, etc. quickly stepped in to fill the void. Again, this receiver does still work, but I had imagined that it might not be highly valued today. I was wrong about that.

 

[walter duque]

No mentioning of the Garrard Zero 100 yet that most of us replaced the AR with and then came the Dual 701 or the lesser Dual 1229. Then we went to Empire and Thorens. That was the good old days.

 

[richard38]

Hi,
Amazed how few people own a tt and at the moment you pay way to much on a normal good turntable. The market really gets overrun by highend brands, making fairly cheap models.
Technics ain't the one to buy, i allready had my mk-5's , no mk2's , since you have to revise them totally, which is easy, but then you still have no good table if you want to listen. If you live in america or the uk, it ain't that expensive , but here in the netherlands .... shipping is way too expensive.

But these have origin live onyx tone-arms, which were last year still the best arm for it's price by far and you can scratch with them... And if you into electronics , you built your own psu, which can be down with the original psu, only external.. But my hifi table is from germany , an avid diva 2, with just a jelo 750 tonearm, only the psu and those tiny upgrades, make a tt -expensive.

and the cheaper rega and pro-ject once have that same nonsense that to sound it ok , you have to buy the external psu and offcourse upgrade the rega-arm and tone -arm wire. The rp-8 is a good table ... Last week i bought a technics sl-10 for 500euro with the liear arm. And since i need a a poweramp i bought for 250euro a yamaha m-50.... Revised. You just have to buy a second hand table.

 

[slipperybidness]

I hit up one of my favorite hole in the wall vinyl shops this weekend. Seriously, this place is in a back-alley off of a main strip, you gotta go up a concrete offload ramp at the back of some other store, then hook a left to find the doors to this place.

I found it by luck the first time I went in there! And, the guys behind the counter were listening to vinyl and sipping tall boys of Lonestar at like 3 in the afternoon!

I picked up a Clarence Carter LP for $5, and a "Suites for Violin and Jazz Piano" for $1!!!

Also, one of the vintage stores on the main strip had some gear. An old Pio receiver with the wood chassis and the chrome face. The speakers that they were using for demo were Primus 153.

 

[3db]

I recently picked up a vintage Yamaha RX-V1500 for $100 . Seriously, I think the biggest difference between vintage and today's stuff is that vintage stuff could be repaired (if parts are avaliable) where stuff built today are designed to be tossed out when broken.

 

[Swerd]

To be vintage, an item must not have a remote control.

By definition, that would exclude all AV receivers, CD and DVD players, and include all turntables. Does anyone make a turntable with a remote??

 

[cpp]

I'm actually happy with the one I have since I got myself another motor that went out after 20+ years. But I'm going to add another TT to my system, most likely a VPI Classic since my Micro is getting a little old. .

 

[Alex2507]

Does anyone make a turntable with a remote??

A programmable remote would be like a wife that you taught to flip the record. I don't think you can sell those.

 

[3db]

A programmable remote would be like a wife that you taught to flip the record. I don't think you can sell those.

Well not in North America

 

[3db]

To be vintage, an item must not have a remote control.

By definition, that would exclude all AV receivers, CD and DVD players, and include all turntables. Does anyone make a turntable with a remote??

But not power amps or are they now remote controlled as well?

 

[ematthews]

I need one. I have records from my youth that need spinning.

 

[tcarcio]

I had a Technics turntable years ago. They are making a comeback though. Just this morning they had a story on turntables on the local news.