3db bump is certainly noticeable, but hardly critical. Vented subs also benefit from room gain, while sealed designs need it much more.
In my case - the living room is open to whole house and I would get room gain of exactly nil.
Please don't put words in to my mouth.
No one, not even me calling PSA subs rip offs, just different in perceived value - and in my option it's
a bit less than Hsu at the moment. Early on PSA subs were indeed amazing value, but for various reasons (and that's manufacturer right to do so) - the prices went up considerably. If PSA doesn't want race to the bottom and serve only higher end customer (ala Funk/Seaton) - totally legitimate option for them.
As for comparing vented and sealed subs - I do disagree with you - both subs can produce linear bass output without must distortion - it's apples to a slightly different apples (not oranges) - end result of both designs is same, they just get there differently - so yeah - I feel like such comparison are legitimate.
We could argue back and forward, but we both going to stick to our own opinions. This is my last post on this subject matter and if you feel you need to rebuff - you're welcome to do so. It's free country and everyone is entitled to their own opinion, including me - I do admit that I don't know everything, but common sense has rarely let me down before.
As for PSA's honesty:
Image below stretching facts a bit - VTF is 1.0 DB
higher in
crucial 31-50hz range.
Then it's loosing only 0.6DB to V1500 in
much less critical 63-100hz range, yet PSA decides that it would take 1.1 VTFs to compare to V1500... I only wonder how they got to this conclusion. Same goes for in room extension - Who's room? The tiny 4x6 ft of tiny New York apartment or more typical open concept room in (lets say) 6000 sqft home in Texas. Without knowing room size - this spec is meaningless.
Lets price V1500 $100 below VTF-15H MK2 and I will start salivating myself, but $40 more? What for?
Country of Origin USA - I mean do we have a concrete proof that 100% of V1500 is indeed built in US of A? Down to every single resistor in amp circuit? What makes it "USA origin" ?
It's never that simple. All Apple hardware is made in China, yet I don't know anyone who might not consider they as premium product.
“3db bump is certainly noticeable, but hardly critical.”
Since both subs are still quite capable, it depends on your definition of critical, but you are paying for double to quadruple the SPL, so you ARE getting more performance contrary to your original opinion.
“Vented subs also benefit from room gain, while sealed designs need it much more.”
Nonsense. I never said a vented design didn’t gain. Sealed subs, due to their gentle roll off, can take more advantage of room gain. Having a room too large to take advantage of room gain usually yields to needing a vented design. I discussed this.
“In my case - the living room is open to whole house and I would get room gain of exactly nil.”
In your case a vented option is best, which helps prove my point. Thanks!
“Please don't put words in to my mouth. No one, not even me calling PSA subs rip offs, just different in perceived value - and in my option it's
a bit less than Hsu at the moment.”
That’s the best definition of what I’d call a ripoff, but to each is own. Your orginnal language went far beyond ‘a bit less.’ Also, you’re still making your claim of being a lesser value IN SPITE of clear evidence of greater performance. You also made this claim more broadly and definitively as you are now.
“Early on PSA subs were indeed amazing value, but for various reasons (and that's manufacturer right to do so) - the prices went up considerably. If PSA doesn't want race to the bottom and serve only higher end customer (ala Funk/Seaton) - totally legitimate option for them.”
Obviously they don’t serve as lower dollar consumer as HSU, but I don’t see how this serves your original point. Are you now trying to pivot to suggest a different argument?
“As for comparing vented and sealed subs - I do disagree with you both subs can produce linear bass output without must distortion it's apples to a slightly different apples (not oranges)”
What on earth does this even mean? CEA 2010 is a measurement of distortion, that’s the data I’m trying to present.
“end result of both designs is same, they just get there differently so yeah - I feel like such comparison are legitimate.”
There is a litany of information comparing the pros and cons of a sealed and vented design, which you yourself admits. The consensus opinion is that it greatly depends on your room, equipment and listening goals. That being the case we shouldn’t compare vented and sealed subs as they would likely not be offered to similar customers.
“We could argue back and forward, but we both going to stick to our own opinions.”
I’ve backed up my opinions with facts and data, you’re still pivoting and backtracking from a terrible statement and instead of just saying you misspoke you dig in deeper.
“This is my last post on this subject matter and if you feel you need to rebuff - you're welcome to do so. It's free country and everyone is entitled to their own opinion, including me - I do admit that I don't know everything, but common sense has rarely let me down before.”
Thanks for your permission. I’m sure someone who makes up meaningless talking points would also feel so bold as to ‘allow’ someone to post on a public board. Common sense doesn’t make a good sub, nor does it provide credible data.
“As for PSA's honesty:”
Since you couldn’t prove that PSA was ripping folks off, you’re taking a shot at their honesty, ok then…
“Image below stretching facts a bit - VTF is 1.0 DB
higher in
crucial 31-50hz range. Then it's loosing only 0.6DB to V1500 in
much less critical 63-100hz range, yet PSA decides that it would take 1.1 VTFs to compare to V1500. I only wonder how they got to this conclusion.”
That’s because you can’t average a set averages. Time to go back to math class? In any case, I just went to the HSU site and compared using measurements of one port open and the measurements on the PSA site were BETTER for the HSU sub. So apparently PSA is giving HSU more credit then they are giving themselves. Based off an average of all CEA measurements they state the 1.1 as an average dB for all dB point in the CEA measurements comparing both subs.
“Same goes for in room extension – Who's room? The tiny 4x6 ft of tiny New York apartment or more typical open concept room in (lets say) 6000 sqft home in Texas. Without knowing room size - this spec is meaningless.”
Nice strawman argument. These are CEA 2010 measurements in open space, flat plane, at 1m. Room gain is not implied. Since they will be in a room, it’s fair to state that some amount of room extension will apply. Room extension is a concept used by everyone in the industry not just PSA. If you wanted to be precise I’d suggest measuring your room. Tom at PSA would be more than happy to help you out, as would everyone at an ID sub dealer. However for the purposes of a website an average has to be assumed.
That said, it’s obvious that you’re now trying to compare the two subs that SHOULD have been compared all along. You’re so desperate to see the HSU sub as superior and you can’t come up with anything other than your typical poor information, and baseless accusations. Get a grip man, it’s ok for there to be other good sub makers, both subs are good, and likely so close as to not be a serious factor. The differences are tertiary at best, but like I said, your original statement comparing the 3000/3000i, which you stated rather broadly and definitively is laughably absurd.