Cannot seem to find an affordable upgrade from current speakers

[Phill]

Hey, it's Seth again to discuss speakers (like we haven't done this before). I've been hanging on to my Infinity Interlude 10 bookshelf speakers with some sort of kung fu death grip for more than a decade; I just can't seem to find a worth successor. I feel like I've tried a lot of things and always end up underwhelmed or inconvenienced in some way.

I live in a single bedroom apartment. My living room, dining area, and kitchen are a conjoined misshapenly room. It's probably the a horrible nightmare on acoustics that only Freddy himself could have inserted into an otherwise pleasant dream (and I am pretty sure that did not make sense).

I found the most effective area to use my speakers and subwoofer are in the dining area, which is sort of in its own little cubby hole. I get good bass response there, and good imaging from the speakers.

Now to get to the meat of it. The Infinity speakers are great, but I would like better. I find the Infinitys to be smooth, not agitating, open, and fun. I have some M&K S-80 monitors as well, they're less fun, more clinical, lack the bass the larger Infinitys have, but they are bright (not harsh). They too image well, but they just do not excite me.

The Infinitys have their shortcomings. The lower midrange or upper midbass is over pronounced typically of bookshelf speakers. This hump is helped by plugging the ports, but it is not entirely eliminated. This causes pianos and vocals to be noticeably colored. Depends what I'm listening to whether I notice this occur or not.

I've tried B&W 602 S3s, did not prefer them. Bass was just a little too "big", seemed exaggerated. A little brighter than the Infinitys as well, and I'm not looking for brighter. I prefer to keep the same balance of highs I've come to enjoy from the Interlude 10s.

Also tried Paradigm Studio 20 v1, again, brighter than I'd like. I enjoy their soundstage, but they're just more aggressive overall.

I do not have space for proper arrangement of floor speakers, I'm considering that almost a non option. I've tried several and almost always had trouble with placement.

So is there any bookshelf speaker out there that doesn't have a forced bass hump by the crossover and shares the smoothness I've come to enjoy from the Infinitys? Am I crazy for thinking the Infinitys sound smooth? I've heard other people just blanket claim all infinity speakers are bright and harsh, this is not what I hear from mine.

Am I correct to assume that tweeter dome material plays little factor on how smooth, warm, harsh, dark, etc ... a tweeter will sound, and this is more contingent of the utilization of a crossover?

Hi Seth,

Could I suggest you have a listen to Osborn speakers, they're made here in Australia and for the life of me have I found it difficult if not impossible to improve on in the real world of affordable Hi End speakers, I have a pair of Epitome's and bins they just murder most other speakers, some costing over 60K have trouble trying to keep up with these, I could rave on for hours but suggest you read the reviews by respected "Audio Guru's" on the Osborn site.

If you have the opportunity and an Osborn Dealer within driving distance please have a listen, I have ran them using 28 Watt single ended valve monoblocks and they sound great I currently use Stereo Knight M-100 monoblocks they are better owing to massive power reserves, these speakers really drag the detail out of any amp you would be using.

Using low or high power amplification these speakers still have spooky imaging and a sound stage that you think your in, bass is unbelievably real with gut wrenching slam when called for and inner detail and textures to die for I've not heard on any other speaker with the capacity to recreate all of this well, some have good bass, some good treble etc. but there's usually something either sticking out lacking not with the Osborn speakers they do it all to perfection.

I listen to a lot of music from classical opera to Roger Waters and The Stranglers they handle the lot with precision control and authority.

Greg Osborn builds quite a few different speakers models including bookshelf, it doesn't matter (within reason) what model they are all excellent sonically.

All this is happening in a tiny room at my place with a bit of acoustic treatment to the walls I don't have one complaint re sound quality.

Cheers.

Phill.

osbornloudspeakers.com.au

 

[Elijah1]

Have you listened to the Epos Élan 10 speakers? I really like them, and if I was looking for an affordable bookshelf speaker, they would be on my short list.

 

[Seth=L]

I recently had the opportunity to compare the IL10 against the Primus 250. Proof positive that a good bookshelf can best a tower of lower quality. I tried them in the exact same position and the Primus just had nothing on the old Interludes. I've come to accept that my safest course is to just save and/or wait for something up the chain from Infinity or Revel. I've tried so many speakers over the years from so many companies and have concluded that overall I like my little mid level Infinity bookshelf speakers to a plethora of other products ranging from most mass market hum drum and a few exotic things here and there.


I've been keeping my eyes peeled for some Intermezzo 2.6 or 2.6p (some up on the bay right now but funds just are not available) and going to be looking at Revel as well (this route is more costly as value retention is higher on similar product levels).

Just seems nuts to me, that 12-13 year old speakers are still my go to at the end of it all. I want to be blown away the next time I buy speakers, not reminded that the IL10 is better overall than anything I've gotten.

 

[Seth=L]

Hi Seth,

Could I suggest you have a listen to Osborn speakers, they're made here in Australia and for the life of me have I found it difficult if not impossible to improve on in the real world of affordable Hi End speakers, I have a pair of Epitome's and bins they just murder most other speakers, some costing over 60K have trouble trying to keep up with these, I could rave on for hours but suggest you read the reviews by respected "Audio Guru's" on the Osborn site.

If you have the opportunity and an Osborn Dealer within driving distance please have a listen, I have ran them using 28 Watt single ended valve monoblocks and they sound great I currently use Stereo Knight M-100 monoblocks they are better owing to massive power reserves, these speakers really drag the detail out of any amp you would be using.

Using low or high power amplification these speakers still have spooky imaging and a sound stage that you think your in, bass is unbelievably real with gut wrenching slam when called for and inner detail and textures to die for I've not heard on any other speaker with the capacity to recreate all of this well, some have good bass, some good treble etc. but there's usually something either sticking out lacking not with the Osborn speakers they do it all to perfection.

I listen to a lot of music from classical opera to Roger Waters and The Stranglers they handle the lot with precision control and authority.

Greg Osborn builds quite a few different speakers models including bookshelf, it doesn't matter (within reason) what model they are all excellent sonically.

All this is happening in a tiny room at my place with a bit of acoustic treatment to the walls I don't have one complaint re sound quality.

Cheers.

Phill.

osbornloudspeakers.com.au

I do not know of any dealers here, and even if I did I'd have no luck going to audition. Time just does not allow it.

 

[Seth=L]

Have you listened to the Epos Élan 10 speakers? I really like them, and if I was looking for an affordable bookshelf speaker, they would be on my short list.

Saw a pair of Epos EL14 speakers on the bay a few days ago listed incorrectly. The seller had taken pictures of them upside down and thought they where called "soda". If I had been drinking anything I most certainly would have lost it, hilarious.

 

[slipperybidness]

I recently had the opportunity to compare the IL10 against the Primus 250. Proof positive that a good bookshelf can best a tower of lower quality. I tried them in the exact same position and the Primus just had nothing on the old Interludes. I've come to accept that my safest course is to just save and/or wait for something up the chain from Infinity or Revel. I've tried so many speakers over the years from so many companies and have concluded that overall I like my little mid level Infinity bookshelf speakers to a plethora of other products ranging from most mass market hum drum and a few exotic things here and there.


I've been keeping my eyes peeled for some Intermezzo 2.6 or 2.6p (some up on the bay right now but funds just are not available) and going to be looking at Revel as well (this route is more costly as value retention is higher on similar product levels).

Just seems nuts to me, that 12-13 year old speakers are still my go to at the end of it all. I want to be blown away the next time I buy speakers, not reminded that the IL10 is better overall than anything I've gotten.

Well, that is a good "problem" to have!

Enjoy what you've got!

 

[Seth=L]

Enjoy what you've got!

I know, but the itch just doesn't quit.

 

[TheWarrior]

Have you considered the DIY route? Me thinks a pair of Seas Bifrost would offer you that same or better sound stage with increased resolution.

Not able to build your own cabinets? Well it just so happens that I should have enough mdf left over from my Thor build, I might be able to help you out!

 

[Seth=L]

Have you considered the DIY route? Me thinks a pair of Seas Bifrost would offer you that same or better sound stage with increased resolution.

Not able to build your own cabinets? Well it just so happens that I should have enough mdf left over from my Thor build, I might be able to help you out!

Very thoughtful, but I'm rubbish at carpentry. If I get something I want to look very nice as well.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Very thoughtful, but I'm rubbish at carpentry. If I get something I want to look very nice as well.

Building from 100% ready parts kit id hardly what I would call carpentry.
The recent pe Jeff Bagby's solice kit sure seems very interesting. 1k for pair of towers, which at least are as good as speakers double the price

 

[TheWarrior]

Any type of cabinet requires tools that the average person would have no use for.

I am half way through a cost evaluation for a kitchen cabinet company that will launch this year, which means I am pre-incorporation. In my effort to offer other products when cabinets cannot move, speakers have come to mind.

If you would be interested, I'd be willing to build a pair of Bi-frosts for you. I am specializing in furniture grade, hand rubbed finishes. We can work out a price, and you won't have to pay a cent until you can see and hear them for yourself. Cause if you don't like them, I'll keep 'em and put my Thors on the back burner for another day.

It would be ideal if you are within a days drive of ATL as shipping with insurance would be costly. And I am much more comfortable transporting myself as I feel thats the only way to affordably guarantee their safety.

Think about it, let me know. If you can decide relatively soon I can immediately begin construction of them and get them to you by February (or when I can get the drivers/crossover etc)

 

[GeneC]

I recently had the opportunity to compare the IL10 against the Primus 250. Proof positive that a good bookshelf can best a tower of lower quality. I tried them in the exact same position and the Primus just had nothing on the old Interludes. I've come to accept that my safest course is to just save and/or wait for something up the chain from Infinity or Revel. I've tried so many speakers over the years from so many companies and have concluded that overall I like my little mid level Infinity bookshelf speakers to a plethora of other products ranging from most mass market hum drum and a few exotic things here and there.


I've been keeping my eyes peeled for some Intermezzo 2.6 or 2.6p (some up on the bay right now but funds just are not available) and going to be looking at Revel as well (this route is more costly as value retention is higher on similar product levels).

Just seems nuts to me, that 12-13 year old speakers are still my go to at the end of it all. I want to be blown away the next time I buy speakers, not reminded that the IL10 is better overall than anything I've gotten.

Sorry for the late reply.

I sorta feel the same way about the Infinity Beta 20 as you do about the IL 10's. I've had a pair of IL 50's and the top half sounded just like the Beta 20 to me. It took the MB Quart Vera's to replace them. I've also had quite a few pairs of speakers in the last few years and my favorites are the Paradigm Studio 20 v2's (not surprising) and the little Mordaunt Short Avant 902's. The 902's don't "wow' you, it's just hard to find fault with them considering their size and price. The only speaker that really "wow'ed" me was the Dynaudio Audience 40's. Didn't care as much for the Audience 80 towers. Way too bright. Sold the whole lot. BTW, I also has a set of Revel Concerta's, F12's, M12's and the C12 (I think?). I didn't think they were that much better the the Beta series and not as good in some respects. If you fancy some revels, shoot for the M22's. Or better yet, the Kappa 200's, if you can find a pair.

 

[zieglj01]

Sorry for the late reply.

Have you been a sleep?

On a side note: My Vera speakers are still going strong.

 

[GeneC]

Have you been a sleep?

On a side note: My Vera speakers are still going strong.

I wish! Just been way too busy. Love the Holidays....hate the Holidays.

I moved my Vera's from my livingroom, which doesn't get that much use but was supposed to have the Grade A movie/music system, to my family room, which should have had the everyday tv system. Decided to put them where I'd get the most use out of them.

 

[Seth=L]

Sorry for the late reply.

I sorta feel the same way about the Infinity Beta 20 as you do about the IL 10's. I've had a pair of IL 50's and the top half sounded just like the Beta 20 to me. It took the MB Quart Vera's to replace them. I've also had quite a few pairs of speakers in the last few years and my favorites are the Paradigm Studio 20 v2's (not surprising) and the little Mordaunt Short Avant 902's. The 902's don't "wow' you, it's just hard to find fault with them considering their size and price. The only speaker that really "wow'ed" me was the Dynaudio Audience 40's. Didn't care as much for the Audience 80 towers. Way too bright. Sold the whole lot. BTW, I also has a set of Revel Concerta's, F12's, M12's and the C12 (I think?). I didn't think they were that much better the the Beta series and not as good in some respects. If you fancy some revels, shoot for the M22's. Or better yet, the Kappa 200's, if you can find a pair.

You think the Kappa 200s are that much better? Those and the Alpha series are both built in Denmark.

 

[Seth=L]

I'm considering that I will have to save up to close to or exceeding 1k in order to get what I want. Been looking at used Thiel speakers from their aluminum driver era. The CS1.6s reminded me a lot of the Infinitys but vastly better sounding, I'm curious about the PCS monitors, which I've never heard. They're a 3 way design with the coincident mid/tweet drivers that Jim spent years designing.

 

[GeneC]

You think the Kappa 200s are that much better? Those and the Alpha series are both built in Denmark.

I didn't realize the Alpha's were made in Denmark. I've never owned or heard the Alpha's but I always felt they were pretty much in the same league as the Beta's. Maybe I've been wrong all these years? I listened to a pair of Kappa 200's a few years ago at a guys house (from Craigslist) and thought they were quite a bet better then the Beta 20. Maybe I just fell in love with their looks. The cabinets are gorgeous.

I've always wanted a pair of Theil's (among so many others). Maybe some day. Just have way too much consumer level stuff on hand right now.

 

[annunaki]

Hey Seth, not sure if you would be up for a DIY option with a well regarded kit. The Kairos kit developed by Jeff Bagby seems to likely fit your bill. I am not sure if it is in your budget or not but take a look anyway.

http://meniscusaudio.com/kairos-pair-p-1380.html

For what it is worth I am planning to use them as the mid/high of a three way reference speaker.

 

[Seth=L]

I didn't realize the Alpha's were made in Denmark. I've never owned or heard the Alpha's but I always felt they were pretty much in the same league as the Beta's. Maybe I've been wrong all these years? I listened to a pair of Kappa 200's a few years ago at a guys house (from Craigslist) and thought they were quite a bet better then the Beta 20. Maybe I just fell in love with their looks. The cabinets are gorgeous.

I've always wanted a pair of Theil's (among so many others). Maybe some day. Just have way too much consumer level stuff on hand right now.

I've had the Kappa 200 on and off my list of "wanted" speakers for a while. Also on the list is the Thiel CS1.6 (the only floor standing system I'd seriously consider), Thiel PCS and the Infinity Intermezzo 2.6/2.6p

 

[mresseguie]

Hello, Seth.

I woke up too early today and found myself on this forum. This must be my first post here.

You have not mentioned what music you usually listen to. Different speakers do better with different music.

I have a couple ideas for you to consider. The first is way off from what you've been thinking. Consider replacing your Teac integrated amp with either a more powerful amp or a tube/hybrid amp - 2nd hand to keep costs down.

With this idea, you would keep your present speakers, but they would sound quite a bit different. I was amazed by how much better my speakers sounded after I replaced my old Denon. Peachtree Audio sells a nifty tube amp "Nova65SE" peachtreeaudio.com. New price is above your limit, but used would be a couple hundred (or more?) cheaper. There are plenty of other alternatives.

If you keep the Teac, consider this possibility:

Buy a full range speaker. [If you listen to Skrillex, don't consider this option.] Full range speakers excel at midrange clarity, are VERY efficient, and mate well with a subwoofer. Omega Speakers' Super3i speaker looks like this: omegaloudspeakers.com Notice the 94.5 dB sensitivity at 8 ohms. Suddenly, your 50W amplifier performs like a 200W amp. Not too shabby.

Twice in this thread, posters mentioned Philharmonic speakers. Look into the Philharmonitor: philharmonicaudio.com

Lastly, (I'm running out of time.).....Take a gander at these kits offered by Madisound Speaker store , GR Research, and Meniscus Audio. [I know you don't have the tools or know how - neither do I.] Cabinets can be ordered from Parts Express and other places. Front baffles must be specially made sometimes.

madisoundspeakerstore.com

gr-research.com

meniscusaudio.com

I own the Adelphos speakers from Meniscus (designed by Jeff Bagby). These are fantastic IMHO. I also own the GR Research LGK full range speakers. LGK = Little Giant Killers

The above kits give you loads of bang for your bucks. I may never consider buying retail speakers again.

I hope this is helpful to you in your search.

Ack! I can't post link until I have posted 10 times. Sigh.....

Regards,

Michael