So what is going on in Missouri

[herbu]

the local authorities should have taken that very serious, them people should have been hunted down and charged with what ever they could get to stick

Exactly the problem. These people were not worried about being seen, identified or held responsible. We have taught them that society will not hold them responsible for their actions... and for whatever reason, neither will their families or friends. They have immunity. Like I said, as long as people think they will not be held responsible, they will act irresponsibly. It is why we have laws and religion.

The pendulum of social climate slowly swings back and forth. It is now, (hopefully), fully at its left apex in regard to personal responsibility. I dearly hope the majority in this country agree, and we begin to see a move back toward equilibrium.

 

[Rickster71]

The mayor of Ferguson is a Republican.

I guess I misunderstood your first post.
Of all the things to glean from that video, your reply seemed unusual.

Actually he was Rick. And, if he wasn't, then what relevance does that video have to what's being discussed here? How did you phrase it? "Hyperbole much?"

I used that phrase toward someone that made no less than a dozen assumptions about me, all of them wrong.

Yes, initially he obviously was speaking of Ferguson. Then he spoke of what was going on nationally.
Semantics aside. I did say in the post title, "He made a few good points."
Didn't say I agreed 100%.
I wish he didn't get political.

 

[MidnightSensi2]

I can tell you this, I get stuck in youtube watching videos of ignorant people, if nothing else it is entertaining to be stunned at how people behave in public...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ytu2g_awdM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcjsrRfnhZE
there are hundreds of them, lol

Daaammnn... One clip in there with the guy with the golf club is like straight out of The Shining

The metal mixed with edits of mcdonalds promo videos and the fights is genius haha.

 

[ImcLoud]

The black guy in the video talking about democrats wasn't bad, I like seeing a black man saying what a white person would be called "racist" for saying... The entire democratic thing, I don't know, since we don't talk politics here its a moot point for us, I don't see any party leaps and bounds better than an other... A black friend of ours {sadly we don't have many, but for what ever reason there aren't many in our area} once in my presence said he was embarrassed at how black people acted in general, and I said "we should all be embarrassed", they are people we are people, I don't get any more embarrassed when I see a white person act like an animal than a black person, we are all americans and humans, we should all be embarrassed and in some way feel responsible for what is going on. Our social structure is wrong if it is breeding people that act like this, something is drastically wrong if this is normal anywhere in the US.... Now if it was a family member of mine acting like this, I would be "more" embarrassed and they would have to answer for it...

My sister went to one of them black friday sales and camped out from like 5am to when the store opened at 7am, there were news cameras there and a little riot broke out, it made the news and people were arrested... My sister called me around 8am to tell me she was alright and she said to me "all I could think of was how pissed you would be if I was in there pulling some ladies hair rolling around on the ground with security guards on TV" I said "I would dis own you", she laughed and said "I believe you"... Not that my sister would ever do that for $30 off a blender, I asked her what she bought and she named a few things, I said how much did you save and she said $50-60, I said "you make $40 an hour and took 3 hours out of your day to wait outside in a New England November to save $50?, really smart"... She laughed and agreed and said she would probably do it again next year, because it was exciting...

I guess I just don't understand people, but anyway, by my sister considering how her family and friends would react to her acting up and causing a scene it shows some control and respect for what others think. Not that I would ever expect to see my sister in a fight, she is not that way at all... But thats the thing, she was brought up in a good home around good people and ended up, "good", "productive", "honest", "hard working", "giving", ect now these kids were brought up in the ghetto, watching their uncles and daddies go to prison, mommy acting "the fool" when ever she thinks its a good idea to start screaming about chicken nuggets, and they are going to be worse in most cases, spit out 6 kids, collect welfare, free health care, and them 6 kids will have 6 kids each that act even worse, go to schools that are even more out of control, get even more people to act even worse...

I wish someone could tell me an answer to how to fix this from happening... Sometimes I think maybe a "free" country isn't an idea that can work... I hat eto think that way but its hard not to want to tel l people "you can not have kids unless YOU can support them with out assistance and YOU are mentally "intact" enough to raise them to be productive citizens of our country", "YOU can not get free medical, food stamps, ect unless YOU do 30 hours of community service", "You broke the law so YOU will go to prison where YOU will work for free to pay the prison costs" "YOU break the law enough or severe enough and YOU will die and not be allowed to reproduce", "You work your enough of your life and or serve the country well, YOU are entitled to social security and support when you can't work anymore".

Instead of building prisons we should be building schools, the lost souls of our generation are lost, I laugh to myself when I see a 45 year old "ex" drug addict criminal getting out of prison with a degree of some sort, I want to see how many of them stories have happy endings, I have yet to see one in person.... I wouldn't know where to start to reform our country, I know there are way more good people than bad, I understand that, and its easy for me to see because I live in a good area and surround myself with good people, BUT the news, and the internet show you this element that you can't help but want to fix... Or DELETE....

 

[psbfan9]

I guess I misunderstood your first post.
Of all the things to glean from that video, your reply seemed unusual.



I used that phrase toward someone that made no less than a dozen assumptions about me, all of them wrong.

Yes, initially he obviously was speaking of Ferguson. Then he spoke of what was going on nationally.
Semantics aside. I did say in the post title, "He made a few good points."
Didn't say I agreed 100%.
I wish he didn't get political.

Um, yeah, ok.

 

[markw]

We've got the schools and they are open to everyone but the problem is that you can't force people to learn. That's a choice they have to make, or their parents have to instill in them. If that doesn't happen, all the money in the world won't make it happen.

And, your black friend isn't alone in his thoughts. My black associates, clients, and friends would never act like this. This guy has the keys to the kingdom and tells it like it is.

 

[rnatalli]

All this craziness going on: cop vs. citizen; white vs. black; etc. Meanwhile, the bankers are stealing all the money while everyone isn't looking.

 

[markw]

All this craziness going on: cop vs. citizen; white vs. black; etc. Meanwhile, the bankers are stealing all the money while everyone isn't looking.

The plan is working.

 

[Rickster71]

I am not sure where to place the blame, walmart, education, welfare, parenting, drug abuse, mental health, poverty????? I think fast food may also be to blame a little, it seems like that is where all these ignorant people get together to fight....
...

The linked problem (below) has been going on for many decades, with none of the usual scapegoats there to blame.
Nothing to blame but good old hate and class warfare.
I guess it worked so well there, we've brought that technique to the USA.

The History of Hutu and Tutsi Conflicts
Generally, the Hutu-Tutsi strife stems from class warfare, with the Tutsis perceived to have greater wealth.

I'd encourage anyone to read that linked story, the death toll (over many decades) is staggering. Totals well over a million.

One of the group's commanders told the Daily Telegraph in 2008, We are fighting every day because we are Hutu and they are Tutsis. We cannot mix, we are always in conflict. We will stay enemies forever."

 

[ImcLoud]

I wish I paid attention sooner, because I don't know when it happened, but for a while there in say 1998-2004 it looked like the "bad" neighborhoods were getting better, some money was getting spent on cleaning up, putting up playgrounds, curfews, neighborhood watches, camera systems, more police, ect then with in a few years it went in reverse. I do some work in Providence {one of our cities} and see the changes, its turning into Gotham city as of late. less and less police, more and more people just "hanging" around, more and more murders on the news, ect...

Its not hard to clean up a neighborhood, install camera systems {private and public} give private property owners incentives to install cameras, make patrols more frequent, instead of the cops sitting parked watching cars drive by well lit main streets, have them on constant patrol, driving up and down each street in random patterns {oxymoron I know}, have more gun trade ins, have "safe" places for children, installing a playground does a lot to a neighborhood around here we have stricter laws when in the area of a school or playground, so you get caught with an illegal gun or drugs within 500ft, you are going to jail, don't pass go don't collect $200 you go to jail, sex offenders cant be around them, more good people outside watching the kids vs scum hanging out looking for trouble... Have paid tipster programs, you snitch on someone selling or buying drugs in your area and you get money a stupid $50 visa card will get most of these people the incentive to clean their streets, rite now they think "what am I getting out of it" well heres $50 for a simple phone call that leads to a conviction, more people will call... Curfews, no one outside hanging around after 11pm, you better be inside or going to work, after a while it will be a lot harder for people to do bad things when there is no where to do them... Make littering fines $1000 and up, you treat the land like a dump and it will cost you $1000, after a while it will get cleaned up.
They can do so many things to clean up the "bad" areas and then the youth will have some respect for life and living, turn these inner cities from prison waiting rooms into places people can live like people, not animals, you live like a wild animal then you are going to act that way....

We can talk about it until we pass out, but nothing is going to change, I fear its too far gone... I know I go for walks with my kids and bring a trash bag, we pick up any garbage we see on the walks, I have them volunteer their time to the community, through church and the fire station they learn that helping people feels good... A women about a 1/2 mile from us lost her husband 2 years ago, my son rides his bike there and cuts her grass, we drive by and pick up her trash when we take ours to the transfer station {no public trash pickup here}, her neighbor {also older} takes her shopping. The local library needed a roof and the budget wasn't there to replace it, we had fundraisers and paid the balance, there are neighboring towns that couldn't afford their football program we had fundraisers to save them and reworked the zoning so the kids all had the chance to play and stay out of trouble.. Its a community, but more important it is where our home is.... Not perfect by any means but we don't have murders, very few police calls, we try to make sure all the graduating kids have plans, we do our best to prevent teen pregnancy {with education and free protection}, ect... I know there are a lot more people in the inner cities and I honestly wouldn't have all the answers, but I know the first place to start is with the parents, showing them how teaching their kids to be productive vs destructive is better for them and everyone else... So much violence, larceny, ect I think I would just move away before trying to change it...

I think it all boils down to SOME PEOPLE ARE JUST SCUM, and they will continue to raise kids that follow suit, and they will do the same, their numbers will climb, they will take over neighborhood by neighborhood until we have to all move to lillyhammer...

 

[GO-NAD!]

The linked problem (below) has been going on for many decades, with none of the usual scapegoats there to blame.
Nothing to blame but good old hate and class warfare.
I guess it worked so well there, we've brought that technique to the USA.

The History of Hutu and Tutsi Conflicts
Generally, the Hutu-Tutsi strife stems from class warfare, with the Tutsis perceived to have greater wealth.

I'd encourage anyone to read that linked story, the death toll (over many decades) is staggering. Totals well over a million.

One of the group's commanders told the Daily Telegraph in 2008, We are fighting every day because we are Hutu and they are Tutsis. We cannot mix, we are always in conflict. We will stay enemies forever."

Rick, I can't remember where I read it - and it's only briefly touched on in the link you provided - but as I understand it, when the Belgians colonized Rwanda, they put the Tutsis on a higher level (racial/economic/social/whatever) than the Hutus. They Tutsis were told by the Belgians that they were better than the Hutus and were given better jobs, education, benefits, etc. A classic divide and conquer technique. This would, of course, create resentment amongst the Hutu, although it certainly doesn't excuse what happened. So, the genocide might not have happened if not for the Belgians' handiwork. Who knows?

As for what's happening in Ferguson, there have been so many mis-steps by so many different groups since this whole thing started, it's difficult to figure out where to point fingers. The first story to come out, was that Brown was gunned down by a cop for no reason. This brought out the protestors. Some would say that they were premature in judging the officer who shot him. We would think, "Why can't they wait for the results of the investigation?" We don't live in the that community, so we don't know what their experience with the police is. Perhaps it was just the last straw for them and they were in no mood to wait for an investigation. When you live under a constant cloud of suspicion, subject to arbitrary traffic stops, get judged more harshly in court than white people for the same offense (there are studies confirming this, but I don't have time to hunt them down right now), etc, patience can wear a bit thin.

Then, the police brought out the armored vehicles waaaay to early. There was no allowance for escalating their response, according to the changing situation.

Of course, Brown's reputation has taken a hit since the incident, but the protest train has already left the station, so his history has to be glossed over. In fact, the protesting may be in his name, but perhaps it isn't really about him anymore. It could be that the tension was already there and this incident was enough to make the anger and resentment boil over. That doesn't excuse the miscreants that are taking advantage of the situation to loot and pillage. And, it could very well be that this officer was fully justified in this shooting. Unfortunately, that might not satisfy the community. I don't see much positive coming out of this....

 

[Rickster71]

Rick, I can't remember where I read it - and it's only briefly touched on in the link you provided - but as I understand it, when the Belgians colonized Rwanda, A classic divide and conquer technique. This would, of course, create resentment amongst the Hutu, although it certainly doesn't excuse what happened. So, the genocide might not have happened if not for the Belgians' handiwork. Who knows?

Agree.
That's what I meant by "not the usual scape goats"

Their problem was Social Engineered, as it is in the USA.
In the USA politicians need them for votes, so they're kept in their place, so to speak.
60 years of social programs and we're still no better off. Except for the politicians, there's money and power in keeping the status quo. Promise them free stuff in exchange for votes.

My point of bringing up the tribes in Rwanda was the contrast of the sheer death toll. It gets ignored.
The Black on black death toll in Detroit, it gets ignored.
But somehow this is the one they hang their hats on.

As for what's happening in Ferguson, there have been so many mis-steps by so many different groups since this whole thing started, it's difficult to figure out where to point fingers. The first story to come out, was that Brown was gunned down by a cop for no reason. This brought out the protestors. Some would say that they were premature in judging the officer who shot him. We would think, "Why can't they wait for the results of the investigation?" We don't live in the that community, so we don't know what their experience with the police is. Perhaps it was just the last straw for them and they were in no mood to wait for an investigation. When you live under a constant cloud of suspicion, subject to arbitrary traffic stops, get judged more harshly in court than white people for the same offense (there are studies confirming this, but I don't have time to hunt them down right now), etc, patience can wear a bit thin.

I guess I see more of a 'Chicken vs Egg' scenario. No personal responsibility, ever.... It's always the fault of someone else.

Then, the police brought out the armored vehicles waaaay to early. There was no allowance for escalating their response, according to the changing situation.

That one is above my pay grade.
I did see a map of the looting and burnt out places. It was much more widespread that the propaganda on TV.

Of course, Brown's reputation has taken a hit since the incident, but the protest train has already left the station, so his history has to be glossed over. In fact, the protesting may be in his name, but perhaps it isn't really about him anymore. It could be that the tension was already there and this incident was enough to make the anger and resentment boil over. That doesn't excuse the miscreants that are taking advantage of the situation to loot and pillage. And, it could very well be that this officer was fully justified in this shooting. Unfortunately, that might not satisfy the community. I don't see much positive coming out of this....

I saw on CNN, the quote was, "The proof doesn't matter! We don't want proof! We want justice!"

The only good to come out of this, is that some millionaire politicians just got tons of new voters.
They divide and conquer and keep the status quo.

I agree, I don't see much positive coming out of this....

 

[markw]

A lot of this "social injustice" is engineered by the media, professional race baiters and politicians for their own nefarious reasons.

The mass media focus' on what they want you to see to manipulate you to respond emotionally and ignore anything that might actually make you think about what's really going on.

It's not as draconian as the would have you believe down here. There's lot more black-on white crime than the media reports. That doesn't make news.

 

[Steve81]

More trouble in St. Louis:
St. Louis Police Officer Fatally Shoots Suspected Gunman, Authorities Say

The guy had a gun this time around and fired three rounds at an off duty cop.

 

[j_garcia]

He was working at the time; the cop was working a second job as a security officer (approved by the department). Not sure why ANYONE would be upset about that incident given that the dude shot at him first and only stopped because his gun jammed. People are just looking for reasons to be mad now.

 

[markw]

Apparently, the people in that town think they have a right to shoot at police but they aren't allowed to shoot back.

The dead guy's sister is either in denial, a liar, or both. That town is beyond redemption.

Bye bye, St. Louis. It's been nice knowing ya.

Next up: Special appearances by Holder Jackson, Sharpton, and maybe even our president.

 

[Rickster71]

It sounds like things are getting worse:
REPORT: Missouri Authorities Planning for Riots if Ferguson Officer Not Indicted « CBS St. Louis

One Ferguson protest leader warns that there will be “carnage” if the grand jury doesn’t indict Wilson.
“I do believe if Darren Wilson is not indicted you will see a lot of carnage,” Tef Poe told Reuters. “There is a lot of explosive energy.”

 

[Steve81]

He was working at the time; the cop was working a second job as a security officer (approved by the department). Not sure why ANYONE would be upset about that incident given that the dude shot at him first and only stopped because his gun jammed. People are just looking for reasons to be mad now.

I know I'm somewhat amused by the comments like "17 shots is too much", as if they've ever been in a gunfight.

 

[markw]

It sounds like things are getting worse:
REPORT: Missouri Authorities Planning for Riots if Ferguson Officer Not Indicted « CBS St. Louis

One Ferguson protest leader warns that there will be “carnage” if the grand jury doesn’t indict Wilson.
“I do believe if Darren Wilson is not indicted you will see a lot of carnage,” Tef Poe told Reuters. “There is a lot of explosive energy.”

I think the technical terms for these would be either "extortion" or "lynching".

 

[j_garcia]

Mob mentality. Just because you think you're right doesn't mean you are.