So what is going on in Missouri

[Nestor]

Because the "victim" initiated the altercation. If Eric Garner had not resisted arrest, the police would not have had to use force. It seems to me there are two relative subjects for discussion, both in this case and Missouri:
1) The violence initiated toward the police
2) The police response to that violence

When the police say, "You are under arrest", right or wrong, guilty or innocent, when is it the proper response to attack or resist? Was it proper in either of these cases?

I'm not saying the choke hold was proper. I don't know enough about it. The cop's supervisor was at the scene and didn't think it was excessive. The grand jury did not think it was murder. I'll let the formal process with access to all the information decide. By simply watching the video, I wonder why they didn't just taze him. I do know there has been recent controversy, press and pressure about cops tazing people. Again, I just don't know enough about it.

But I do know if you initiate violence toward a cop or cops trying to arrest you, you can expect a violent response. And I know the outcome of violence can not be 100% controlled. Not on the football field, not on the hockey rink, and not on the street.

Resisting arrest doesn't have to be violent. The video of Eric Garner proves that.

 

[jcparks]

Just skimmed over the majority of this thread and I would like to throw in my own two cents because I love to give my point of view... (just look at the LG thread) As a correctional officer I can give the prospective from a pseudo law enforcement point of view.
Lets start with the Michael Brown case..
This one is tough, at the end of the day no one can really say what happened. When I was in the academy, I was taught from day one, that you go home safe at the end of the day. I was shown several pictures and videos of officers that had been hurt while on duty. Even though you are also taught to be "Firm, Fair, and Consistent" and to have respect and be professional. When you start at this job you really do get a war zone, us vs them, mentality. You have to switch from one role to another at the drop of a hat, and you are constantly on your toes. I can show you several videos on you tube of cops being assaulted. It is the single biggest hazard, and most scary part of our job. When you are caught in a situation... often times the only thing your thinking about is going home safe at the end of the day. For this reason I cant help but side with Darren Wilson in this case. With out any sort of concrete evidence one way or another. I understand the inherent dangers of his career on a personal level.
Regarding the Michael Garner case...
Let me start by saying, and don't take this the wrong way... Michael Garner was a dumbass. Even though he was peaceful, I dont care if your black, white, hispanic, asian or whatever... you dont stand there surrounded by officers and continue to resist arrest. There is no one way around it, it will end up bad for you.
That being said we botched the hell out of that case in the grand jury. Officer Daniel Pantaleo had the entire thing pinned on him, but there were several other cops involved. Being that eric garner was able to talk and say "I cant breath" tells be that it wasn't Pantaleo, because if Panteleo was cutting off his air supply eric garner would not have been able to talk. It was most likely a combination of his heavy weight, along with his asthma, and the weight of all the officers that were on top of him probably created a positional asphyxia. As I watched that video I noticed none of the officers attempted any form of life saving measures on the large man. Yet the entire thing was pinned on Danny Panteleo for his choke hold... all of the officers involved should have been included in the case... not because they possibly accidentally killed a man, but because not one of them did anything to try to save him...

 

[jcparks]

The entire subject is so complicated... I can tell you that the majority of the officers I work with are decent people and don't come to work ready to punish inmates for their crimes against society. Most of us know how to communicate and can quell most situations before they start just by talking. There are a few assholes however... and those assholes exist in every branch of law enforcement, and they really do make the rest of us look bad.
That mixed with with distrust of our law enforcement in our economically challenged areas... along with that constant fear that comes inherent in the law enforcement career is a lethal combination...
I can promise you there will be lots of changes coming down the pipeline as a direct response to these cases. Will law enforcement ever be perfect, hell no, but their tactics, and training will hopefully get a lot better...

 

[Nestor]

Just skimmed over the majority of this thread and I would like to throw in my own two cents because I love to give my point of view... (just look at the LG thread) As a correctional officer I can give the prospective from a pseudo law enforcement point of view.
Lets start with the Michael Brown case..
This one is tough, at the end of the day no one can really say what happened. When I was in the academy, I was taught from day one, that you go home safe at the end of the day. I was shown several pictures and videos of officers that had been hurt while on duty. Even though you are also taught to be "Firm, Fair, and Consistent" and to have respect and be professional. When you start at this job you really do get a war zone, us vs them, mentality. You have to switch from one role to another at the drop of a hat, and you are constantly on your toes. I can show you several videos on you tube of cops being assaulted. It is the single biggest hazard, and most scary part of our job. When you are caught in a situation... often times the only thing your thinking about is going home safe at the end of the day. For this reason I cant help but side with Darren Wilson in this case. With out any sort of concrete evidence one way or another. I understand the inherent dangers of his career on a personal level.
Regarding the Michael Garner case...
Let me start by saying, and don't take this the wrong way... Michael Garner was a dumbass. Even though he was peaceful, I dont care if your black, white, hispanic, asian or whatever... you dont stand there surrounded by officers and continue to resist arrest. There is no one way around it, it will end up bad for you.
That being said we botched the hell out of that case in the grand jury. Officer Daniel Pantaleo had the entire thing pinned on him, but there were several other cops involved. Being that eric garner was able to talk and say "I cant breath" tells be that it wasn't Pantaleo, because if Panteleo was cutting off his air supply eric garner would not have been able to talk. It was most likely a combination of his heavy weight, along with his asthma, and the weight of all the officers that were on top of him probably created a positional asphyxia. As I watched that video I noticed none of the officers attempted any form of life saving measures on the large man. Yet the entire thing was pinned on Danny Panteleo for his choke hold... all of the officers involved should have been included in the case... not because they possibly accidentally killed a man, but because not one of them did anything to try to save him...

Medical examiner determined cause of death was homicide by compression of the neck and chest. And you can talk in that situation. What you can't do is replace the air expelled as you talk.


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[3db]

Speaking on the Misssouri thing.. Unfortunately, there aholes on both sides of this .. rioters who have no business being there whose soul purpose to add sparks to a powder keg and cause property damage which takes away from the real issue and the other ahole cops who stood around and did nothing to attempt to revive the victim.

 

[3db]

No. Some are, and it's mostly blacks. Since Affirmative action came into play fifty years ago, blacks have distince advantages as far as jobd and education if they choose to avail themselves of it.

But, at that time, the entitlement generation was born. Single parent families were started by many who cannot afford it when some "bees" started "pollinating the flowers" and then moving on to others without owing up to their parental responsibilities and raising their offspring. This has now been going on for several generations in some cases and now feel it's owed to them.

Along those lines, it seems that affirmative action, where standards were lowered for job testing and entry into schools had now morphed into societies acceptance of "affirmative morality" where many now feel they don't have to follow the same laws that others have to follow. Ergo, they should be allowed to beat up on cops with impunity, do flash mob raids of stores and let's not foprget the knock-out" game that seems to have taken this country by storm.

With civil rights come civil responsibility. I know many fine people of color and it pains me, and them, when I see these animals (yes, I said it) tearing this country apart and liberals cheering them on.

So, no, it's not a carryover from slavery or even racism, at least on the parts of whites and cops. There are some white aholes that are prejudiced but, trust me, there are a heckuva lot of blacks out there that are even worse, and many go out looking for white victims. Cops are now wary because of their experiences with the thug elements they are forced to deal with on a daily basis and react accordingly.

Listen to what Pastor Johnathan Gentry has to say about this whole thing.

I totally understand what you are saying.. and my remarks weren't levied against the peaceful people that made their lives better. My remarks are applied to aholes on both sides of this issue.