How does the sound quality compare between Yamaha RX-Z1 and Outlaw 975?

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I think he knows that but probably think if the unit is full of bells and whistles then it is not what he considers money well spent if those things are going to be used. The logic is there except for the effects of economy of scale.

I think audiophiles worry to much.

They worry about AVR not sounding good. They worry that if components have too many features, they won't sound good.

 

[Irvrobinson]

I think audiophiles worry to much.

They worry about AVR not sounding good. They worry that if components have too many features, they won't sound good.

No, we worry that if you try to stuff seven, nine or eleven power amplifiers in a little box along with a bunch of digital processors, a pre-amp, and an AM-FM tuner, and try to sell the whole thing for an MSRP of maybe $1500, that some corners will get cut. Performance corners or reliability corners, or both. And some of us only want two amplifiers. That's what us silly audiophiles are worrying about.

 

[PENG]

I think audiophiles worry to much.

They worry about AVR not sounding good. They worry that if components have too many features, they won't sound good.

You probably realized I missed the word "not" before "going to be used" but your response would have been the same regardless. I agree with you to a point, also agree with IRV to a point. We all have our worries.

 

[RichB]

No, we worry that if you try to stuff seven, nine or eleven power amplifiers in a little box along with a bunch of digital processors, a pre-amp, and an AM-FM tuner, and try to sell the whole thing for an MSRP of maybe $1500, that some corners will get cut. Performance corners or reliability corners, or both. And some of us only want two amplifiers. That's what us silly audiophiles are worrying about.

After a suitable amp(s) are selected, it can last far longer that the technology churn found in processors.

- Rich

 

[Irvrobinson]

After a suitable amp(s) are selected, it can last far longer that the technology churn found in processors.

- Rich

Good point, and another excellent argument for choosing a pre-pro over an AVR, IMO. Contrary to ADTG's stereotype (I couldn't resist the pun), too many features in one chassis is not the primary concern. The features are mostly IC-based.

 

[Tidan]

Yeah, those comments sum up some of my concerns for sure!
Found a Yamaha 2020 for a good price. Any ideas on how the 975/7125 would sound compared to the rx-a2020 or rx-a3020?

 

[Irvrobinson]

Any ideas on how the 975/7125 would sound compared to the rx-a2020 or rx-a3020?

You haven't mentioned your speakers, but unless you have really awesome speakers strategically placed in a large, acoustically friendly room, and you play well-recorded wide-range music with acoustic instruments, you are unlikely to hear consistent differences between those two combinations. IMO.

 

[Tidan]

I use my paradigm studio reference set; studio 40's (or sometimes 20's) as mains, studio cc570 as center, studio 20's (or monitor atoms or ADP 590) as surrounds, and two svs subs running off a 1200 watt amp.
I have mild room treatments and placement is decent. Had my Z1 sounding very nice using NO tone control outside of an eq for my subs.
I listen to alot of DTS multichannel music - much of which I create from two channel flac's or original uncompressed source - using layouts I developed for Plogue Bidule and DTS encoder.
I don't listen to MP3 or other lossy formats except on very rare occassion.

 

[PENG]

Yeah, those comments sum up some of my concerns for sure!
Found a Yamaha 2020 for a good price. Any ideas on how the 975/7125 would sound compared to the rx-a2020 or rx-a3020?

I would take the 3020 unless you enjoy listening to 5/7 ch stereo but since you seem to only need the basic features then I will say that again, for $1,398 you can't beat the Outlaw pair.

 

[Tidan]

Thanks for the reply!
I guess I didn't quite understand you when you said "...take the 3020 unless you enjoy listening to 5/7 ch stereo".
I didn't think the 975 had 5/7 analog inputs?

I usually listen to 2ch source via DTS neo. And most the time I listen to DTS 5.1 music.

 

[PENG]

Thanks for the reply!
I guess I didn't quite understand you when you said "...take the 3020 unless you enjoy listening to 5/7 ch stereo".
I didn't think the 975 had 5/7 analog inputs?

I usually listen to 2ch source via DTS neo. And most the time I listen to DTS 5.1 music.

Some multichannel AVR and prepros have the 5 channel and 7 channel stereo DSP modes. They are just DSP, splitting the 2 channel stereo signal into 5 and/or 7 channels and have nothing to do with analog inputs. To me that is weird and I have no use for them but apparently some people enjoy them. Those modes obviously puts more or less equal demand on each and every channels simultaneously and the Yamaha AVR's smaller power supply would have more difficult time delivering than dealing with typical 5.1 or 7.1 DTS HD and DDTHD signals. The Outlaw 7125 has a much larger power supply so it can handle those weird sound modes much better than the Yamaha can, but other than that I doubt the more powerful 7125 would make any difference for you.

 

[Tidan]

The "parasound 7125"? I was referring to the outlaw 7125 amp.
But I see what you are saying about the 7ch stereo. I thought the reference was to the lack of multichannel inputs on the outlaw and no SACD option - which I don't own any SACD's anyway. All my material is on my HTPC.
This is a tough decision...wish I was independently wealthy!

 

[PENG]

Thanks for the reply!
I guess I didn't quite understand you when you said "...take the 3020 unless you enjoy listening to 5/7 ch stereo".
I didn't think the 975 had 5/7 analog inputs?

I usually listen to 2ch source via DTS neo. And most the time I listen to DTS 5.1 music.

Sorry that was a mistake, of course I meant Outlaw all along, fixed now.

You said you found a 2020 for a good price, did you mean well below the price of the Outlaw 975/7125? The Outlaws are a better choice for you only if you are sure you don't need the many features that the Yamaha offer. The Yamaha is very network capable and are Apple friendly, I would have hard time giving up those convenient features, such as Airplay, and the ability to stream music or just play music from a 64GB USB thumb drive or an iPad/iPod etc.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

No, we worry that if you try to stuff seven, nine or eleven power amplifiers in a little box along with a bunch of digital processors, a pre-amp, and an AM-FM tuner, and try to sell the whole thing for an MSRP of maybe $1500, that some corners will get cut. Performance corners or reliability corners, or both. And some of us only want two amplifiers. That's what us silly audiophiles are worrying about.

Yeah, but is there any proof that any of that matters when it comes to sound quality and reliability? These AVRs measure great, they sound great, and many of them last for 15-20 years.

Just enjoy the movies and music. If they sound great, it is all great. No worries.

 

[Tidan]

Sorry that was a mistake, of course I meant Outlaw all along, fixed now.

You said you found a 2020 for a good price, did you mean well below the price of the Outlaw 975/7125? The Outlaws are a better choice for you only if you are sure you don't need the many features that the Yamaha offer. The Yamaha is very network capable and are Apple friendly, I would have hard time giving up those convenient features, such as Airplay, and the ability to stream music or just play music from a 64GB USB thumb drive or an iPad/iPod etc.

Heres a 2020 for 1200.00: Amazon.com: Yamaha RX-A2020 9.2-Channel Network AVENTAGE AV Receiver (Discontinued by Manufacturer): Electronics
And a 3020 for 1650.00: Amazon.com: Yamaha RX-A3020 9.2-Channel Network AVENTAGE AV Receiver (Discontinued by Manufacturer): Electronics

I don't see myself missing those features as I don't have them now and don't see me using them. I have my HTPC hooked up and it has all my movies, music, pictures, streaming content, etc...
Looks like Outlaw covers the return shipping if you decide not to keep it so I'd probably not be out anything but time if it doesn't sound as good as my Z1. Guess I could try it and if it doesn't work out, return it and maybe get the 2020 or 3020.

 

[PENG]

Heres a 2020 for 1200.00: Amazon.com: Yamaha RX-A2020 9.2-Channel Network AVENTAGE AV Receiver (Discontinued by Manufacturer): Electronics
And a 3020 for 1650.00: Amazon.com: Yamaha RX-A3020 9.2-Channel Network AVENTAGE AV Receiver (Discontinued by Manufacturer): Electronics

I don't see myself missing those features as I don't have them now and don't see me using them. I have my HTPC hooked up and it has all my movies, music, pictures, streaming content, etc...
Looks like Outlaw covers the return shipping if you decide not to keep it so I'd probably not be out anything but time if it doesn't sound as good as my Z1. Guess I could try it and if it doesn't work out, return it and maybe get the 2020 or 3020.

You can certainly use a BDP or other device to stream and play music on USBs without a network/USB capable prepro, that's why I referred to those as convenient features. If Outlaw's in home trial policy covers return shipping well then it really is a super deal so I'll say the 3rd time, go for it.

 

[RichB]

You can certainly use a BDP or other device to stream and play music on USBs without a network/USB capable prepro, that's why I referred to those as convenient features. If Outlaw's in home trial policy covers return shipping well then it really is a super deal so I'll say the 3rd time, go for it.

... and you could connect the BDP-105 directly to the 7125 amp...

- Rich

 

[Irvrobinson]

Yeah, but is there any proof that any of that matters...

Proof that matters to whom? Looking inside any modern AVR tells me I don't like their product design strategy. There are AVRs that might measure well and might be reliable, but I wouldn't have one if given to me gratis. It's just a preference, but based on some reasoning beyond I don't like their looks.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Proof that matters to whom? Looking inside any modern AVR tells me I don't like their product design strategy. There are AVRs that might measure well and might be reliable, but I wouldn't have one if given to me gratis. It's just a preference, but based on some reasoning beyond I don't like their looks.

Matters to people who care to know.

Well, if you must have separates, then that is the only reason that matters to you. It doesn't even matter if the AVR measures better and have better Subwoofer EQ and Dynamic EQ, etc.

But to other people who want to know if separates really have better sound quality and better reliability, it matters to them. It may matter to them if something like the Denon X4000 has Audyssey XT32 + dual Sub EQ + Dynamic EQ and the separate components do NOT.

With my experience, there is no way I would ever go back to Direct mode for music or movies because Audyssey XT Sub EQ + DEQ improves the sound quality so significantly like night and day. I suppose many people may never experience the same thing I experience and most people will never even try. I guess it will never matter to them. But it matters to some people.

Features like AirPlay and iOS remote app also matter to some people. I stream lossless music files from my iPad to my Denon all the time. And use the Denon remote on my iPad exclusively. Of course, it may not matter to everyone. But for some people it matters a lot.

And as far as taking a brand new electrical component gratis, I would take anything.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Well, if you must have separates, then that is the only reason that matters to you. It doesn't even matter if the AVR measures better and have better Subwoofer EQ and Dynamic EQ, etc.

But to other people who want to know if separates really have better sound quality and better reliability, it matters to them. It may matter to them if something like the Denon X4000 has Audyssey XT32 + dual Sub EQ + Dynamic EQ and the separate components do NOT.

Features like AirPlay and iOS remote app also matter to some people. I stream lossless music files from my iPad to my Denon all the time. And use the Denon remote on my iPad exclusively. Of course, it may not matter to everyone. But for some people it matters a lot.

And as far as taking a brand new electrical component gratis, I would take anything.

But they don't measure better, they measure maybe as well as a PrePro in the processor section. The amps don't really compare. As for all of that EQ stuff, I don't use it. I use a powered sub with EQ in it, and I don't use full-spectrum EQ. A lot of people are like that. The AirPlay point is valid, and wireless streaming has tempted me, but, alas, I'm still a dinosaur who spins CDs!