new AVR's

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Does Modeler go in 1dB increments? If yes, it wins on flexibility.

Not really. DEQ can be adjusted not only by the 4 Offset settings, but each trim level also adjusts the DEQ effects.

For example, if the standard reference trim is 0.0 for each channel, increasing the Trim to +0.5, +1.0, +1.5, up to +12.0 or decreasing the Trim to -0.5, -1.0, down to -12.0 will adjust the DEQ.

And I am also wondering if the Dolby Volume Leveler and Modeler go hand-in-hand; if shutting off the Leveler will also shut off the Modeler.

 

[ReUpRo]

Not really. DEQ can be adjusted not only by the 4 Offset settings, but each trim level also adjusts the DEQ effects.

For example, if the standard reference trim is 0.0 for each channel, increasing the Trim to +0.5, +1.0, +1.5, up to +12.0 or decreasing the Trim to -0.5, -1.0, down to -12.0 will adjust the DEQ.

Interesting! I never came across that titbit in my research prior to buying the X4000.

Can you please provide a reference.

 

[rnatalli]

And I am also wondering if the Dolby Volume Leveler and Modeler go hand-in-hand; if shutting off the Leveler will also shut off the Modeler.

You can run the Modeler without the Leveler. That's actually how I use it on my Anthem.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Interesting! I never came across that titbit in my research prior to buying the X4000.

Can you please provide a reference.

Here are references on Offset and Trim.

Adjusting Trims by even +/-0.5dB will affect DEQ, although it doesn't spell it out word for word. I have tried. So increasing trims by +0.5dB increments will increase DEQ effects. Decreasing trims by -0.5dB will decrease DEQ effects.

In any case, it's not a huge deal to change the trims if you feel the need to (keeping in mind the implications on Dynamic EQ). The most important part of Audyssey--the filters--are not affected by trim levels.

https://audyssey.zendesk.com/entries/73283-dynamic-eq-and-reference-level

https://audyssey.zendesk.com/entries/22104618-Speaker-Trim-Levels

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

You can run the Modeler without the Leveler. That's actually how I use it on my Anthem.

Seems like DEQ vs DV then.

What about Trim levels? Will changing Trims affect ARC filters? Will it affect Dolby Volume Modeler?

 

[ReUpRo]

ADTG, Thank you for posting the links. Even though the AVS Forum has a phenomenal compendium of Audyssey info in the Audyssey 101 thread, the effect of channel trims on DEQ calculations never got mentioned.

https://audyssey.zendesk.com/entries/22104618-Speaker-Trim-Levels

In this article Chris says, "It's not a good idea to change the trims because that will throw off the Dynamic EQ calibration. If you want the system to play louder just turn up the master volume".

My take away is that, if one changes the channel trims (most likely Subwoofer trim since most folks complain that sub is too low and we routinely tell folks to increase the trim), DEQ calculations post Audyssey auto-calibration are rendered invalid. To state it alternately, channel trims should not be used as a work around to give infinite DEQ variability.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

In this article Chris says, "It's not a good idea to change the trims because that will throw off the Dynamic EQ calibration. If you want the system to play louder just turn up the master volume".

My take away is that, if one changes the channel trims (most likely Subwoofer trim since most folks complain that sub is too low and we routinely tell folks to increase the trim), DEQ calculations post Audyssey auto-calibration are rendered invalid. To state it alternately, channel trims should not be used as a work around to give infinite DEQ variability.

Chris also says, "In any case, it's not a huge deal to change the trims if you feel the need to. The most important part of Audyssey--the filters--are not affected by trim levels."

I've played around with the trims. It does not affect Audyssey. It only adjusts the DEQ effects.

For example, if you prefer more DEQ, you can increase all trims by 0.5dB, 1.0dB, etc. It doesn't affect Audyssey. It doesn't affect the midrange or treble. It only affects the magnitude of DEQ. Mainly the punchiness and dynamics of the bass. It is not Dynamic Volume where the Volume is increased and dynamically compressed. The ONLY thing I get out of DEQ personally is better subwoofer dynamics. The bass sounds punchier, snappier, faster, more dynamic, while the midrange and treble appears utterly unchanged.

Like Chris says and I don't know how to say it any more simple, it's NOT a huge deal to change the trims.

 

[PENG]

ADTG, Thank you for posting the links. Even though the AVS Forum has a phenomenal compendium of Audyssey info in the Audyssey 101 thread, the effect of channel trims on DEQ calculations never got mentioned.

In this article Chris says, "It's not a good idea to change the trims because that will throw off the Dynamic EQ calibration. If you want the system to play louder just turn up the master volume".

My take away is that, if one changes the channel trims (most likely Subwoofer trim since most folks complain that sub is too low and we routinely tell folks to increase the trim), DEQ calculations post Audyssey auto-calibration are rendered invalid. To state it alternately, channel trims should not be used as a work around to give infinite DEQ variability.

For those who like to experiment, adjusting the trim to affect DEQ is a bonus way, as long as one remember, or write it down, the trim level before adjusting. That way if things go south, one can just set it back to the original levels, without having to re-run Audyssey.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

For those who like to experiment, adjusting the trim to affect DEQ is a bonus way, as long as one remember, or write it down, the trim level before adjusting. That way if things go south, one can just set it back to the original levels, without having to re-run Audyssey.

Exactly.

I think most people will be duly content with the standard settings plus one of the Reference Offset Levels.

But there is room for "safe" experimentation for people who want extended levels of adjustment; in this case it is a 0.5dB increment.

 

[ReUpRo]

What you guys are saying makes sense. I feel comfortable now knowing that running my sub hotter is not negating the DEQ calculations.

 

[PENG]

Here are references on Offset and Trim.

Adjusting Trims by even +/-0.5dB will affect DEQ, although it doesn't spell it out word for word. I have tried. So increasing trims by +0.5dB increments will increase DEQ effects. Decreasing trims by -0.5dB will decrease DEQ effects.

In any case, it's not a huge deal to change the trims if you feel the need to (keeping in mind the implications on Dynamic EQ). The most important part of Audyssey--the filters--are not affected by trim levels.

https://audyssey.zendesk.com/entries/73283-dynamic-eq-and-reference-level

https://audyssey.zendesk.com/entries/22104618-Speaker-Trim-Levels

Reading through those FAQs should make one realize how often people could confuse DEQ with DV, meaning of +, - dB offset, reference levels, and subwoofer level setting (like how people felt Audyssey resulted in too low sub level), small vs large etc. Everyone interested in running Audyssey per Prof. Chris Kyriakakis instructions should really read through stuff on the Audyssey website. It really is a pre-requisite, before they form an opinion on how well, or poorly Audyssey works. This thing is not as user friendly as one would think, at least not in terms of its design principles and objectives.

 

[PENG]

What you guys are saying makes sense. I feel comfortable now knowing that running my sub hotter is not negating the DEQ calculations.

That's correct, I run my 2 dB hot also, as Dr. Chris K said, the software (in meaning only, not words) cannot predict one's person preference. Once Audyssey has been run and operating, barring any subsequent trim level changes made manually, only the volume adjustments and reference offset setting affect the DEQ curve. Trim level adjustments made subsequently would obviously also affect it, but negating it.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Most people are content with the Audyssey reference standard most of the time.

But I think a lot of people feel at ease with slightly manually adjusting the trims to suite their preferences.

Some find the bass too high, some too low.

Some fine the center dialogue level too low, some too high.

What makes the sound best.

 

[3db]

That's correct, I run my 2 dB hot also, as Dr. Chris K said, the software (in meaning only, not words) cannot predict one's person preference. Once Audyssey has been run and operating, barring any subsequent trim level changes made manually, only the volume adjustments and reference offset setting affect the DEQ curve. Trim level adjustments made subsequently would obviously also affect it, but negating it.

I think your first sentence can be applied to all room correction facilities.

 

[PENG]

That's correct, I run my 2 dB hot also, as Dr. Chris K said, the software (in meaning only, not words) cannot predict one's person preference. Once Audyssey has been run and operating, barring any subsequent trim level changes made manually, only the volume adjustments and reference offset setting affect the DEQ curve. Trim level adjustments made subsequently would obviously also affect it, but NOT negating it.

Just noticed I missed the word "not" in my last sentence. Too bad quoting myself seems the only way to make the correction.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Just noticed I missed the word "not" in my last sentence. Too bad quoting myself seems the only way to make the correction.

Yeah. It would be nice if we could edit indefinitely.