Peculiar New Issue ... maybe HDMI related

[Alex2507]

I have four running to my AVR and two running from it to my TV.

No wonder your amps buzz.

 

[itschris]

Just got home. Not that I thought any different, but I verified HDMI control on the receiver was set to OFF. So... it's definitely a compatibility issue with my receiver and the Redmere cables. Right now I have four HDMI's IN and one HDMI OUT using just standard cables... a couple from Blue Jean and I think the others from Vizio... all at least 3 or 4 years old.

Whatever. The new thin HDMI's from Parts Express should be on their way. I'll just redo everything... again... when they come in.

Thanks guys. This has been an education.

 

[TLS Guy]

Well, I guess that wraps up this thread. You are welcome.

 

[BMXTRIX]

Thread not quite over...

From monoprice: "The VW-1 rating on this cable indicates that it complies with fire safety codes and insurance requirements and is safe for use inside the walls of residential class buildings."

The VW-1 rating is generally not accepted by NEC and therefore, since most states reference NEC, the cable is not actually approved for in-wall use. There was some discussion on this over at AVS and the details are all there for someone who really wants to get into it, but NEC recognizes a number of different fire rating specifications such as CL2/CL3, or 'CM' (cat cabling), but at this time VW-1 is not a standard for in-wall by NEC.

That said, I don't think anyone in the world will really have an issue with them as VW-1 is a fire rating test, and the bigger headache is that you want retro access no matter what if using these cables.

 

[panteragstk]

Right. If they work and aren't against code that's all I care about. Didn't have time to test today, but I'll try tomorrow. It really is a strange issue that Chris is having. Yet another reason the HDMI standard is just not that great.

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[itschris]

Just because... I fiddled with every setting on my Receiver last night, swapped cables to and fro... still there was no combination, no setting on the receiver that made it work. Didn't think there would be but i really wanted to exhaust all scenarios.

Who's to say, however, that a newer receiver would have any issues. I emailed Pioneer last night asking them about Redmere compatibility. I'll see what they say.

 

[Alex2507]

Redmere is probably okay if you don't mind your house catching on fire and BBQ-ing your dog.

 

[sawzalot]

Well this has become a very interesting thread regarding these redmere cables, I took all of the redmeres out of my set up and replaced them with my older anaconda style hdmi cables with about zero flexibility and there is no change relating to my original issue here:http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/amps-pre-pros-receivers/89124-pass-thru-signal-avr.html

I now know exactly how Alex felt during his Mantown urban renewal project , my HT will not be back together again today!! I will totally skip trying to send any signals thru the AVR via HDMI .

 

[panteragstk]

Redmere is probably okay if you don't mind your house catching on fire and BBQ-ing your dog.

Ha....I don't have a dog.

 

[BMXTRIX]

Well this has become a very interesting thread regarding these redmere cables, I took all of the redmeres out of my set up and replaced them with my older anaconda style hdmi cables with about zero flexibility and there is no change relating to my original issue here:http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/amps-pre-pros-receivers/89124-pass-thru-signal-avr.html

I now know exactly how Alex felt during his Mantown urban renewal project , my HT will not be back together again today, I will totally skip trying to send any signals thru the AVR via HDMI .

I responded in your thread, but what you are trying to achieve really would not have anything to do with HDMI cabling. I guess since you were trying to pass through A/V with your receiver off, you were thinking that the HDMI port may be powered down and not feeding the Redmere cable with proper voltage, but I don't think this would be a real possibility when using power off pass through functionality. Just a poorly designed product from Pioneer in this case.

 

[TLS Guy]

Right. If they work and aren't against code that's all I care about. Didn't have time to test today, but I'll try tomorrow. It really is a strange issue that Chris is having. Yet another reason the HDMI standard is just not that great.

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It is not an HDMI issue in this instance.

Those Redmere cables are NOT HDMI compliant. The +5 voltage on pin 18 is not a powering voltage, but a control voltage. The spec calls for 50 MA to be available on that pin. Redmere cables take 75 MA. So some devices will have enough reserve ans some won't. Whether drawing the higher current than spec will damage some units is another issue, but I would say it is certainly possible.

In the case under discussion, that excessive power draw caused malfunction of the receiver.

At its most basic producing an active cable for short runs is a really dumb idea. For runs over 50 ft I can see some point. However having a point of failure in powered IC in an installed cable is not something I would spec.

 

[panteragstk]

Do you think a computer video card will supply the amps required to prevent an issue like Chris?

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[TLS Guy]

Do you think a computer video card will supply the amps required to prevent an issue like Chris?

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Who knows? Since the +5 on pin 18 is not supposed to be a powering voltage, then manufacturers don't spec the current draw available form pin 18. I have never seen that specked.

So you could ask the manufacturer, if they know the maximum safe current draw from pin 18.

The take home really is though, that there is no need for active cables for short runs under 25 ft. That is just a totally unnecessary point of failure and not to be recommended under any circumstances.

There are active cables with an external power source, and that makes some sense for longer runs.

As stated by HDMI.org active cables should have their own external power source and not be powered off pin 18.

 

[panteragstk]

The cable I have is 50 ft. I have a good 25 ft from monoprice that works great.

I did test the 50 ft redmere and my receiver acts normally.

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[ahblaza]

I have to agree with Mark, I see no reason to use an active HDMI cable under 25', I'm really glad I hung around this thread, I learned a lot. I wish PE sold longer lengths of the cable BM spoke so highly of. I use all BJC cables without ever an incident of failure.
Cheers Jeff

 

[copmagnet82]

...and I was about to order a bunch of those redmere cables ...thank God for the "search" button

 

[TLS Guy]

The cable I have is 50 ft. I have a good 25 ft from monoprice that works great.

I did test the 50 ft redmere and my receiver acts normally.

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The thing you don't know is if your receiver is designed to handle 75 MA from the HDMI port. If not. you are setting yourself up for premature failure. So you would be well advised to ask the manufacturer of your receiver. Remember the HDMI spec only requires 50 MA.

 

[panteragstk]

True. The question now is to find out if it is capable. The bigger question is to find out how to find out. I'll pull out the volt meter and see how many MA are at the end of the cable when plugged in.

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[TLS Guy]

I have just found this article from the CEDIA technology council on best practices for long HDMI runs

They strongly recommend using active cables with an external power source.

It seems to me the best long term solution is a change in the HDMI specs, to require adequate power from pin 18 for active cables. Until that happens use caution!

 

[TLS Guy]

True. The question now is to find out if it is capable. The bigger question is to find out how to find out. I'll pull out the volt meter and see how many MA are at the end of the cable when plugged in.

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You can't check current with a volt meter. It reads volts. There is no way you can do this with a meter, as you need a milliamp meter in series with the load and not parallel. You can't do that with an HDMI cable. You will have to ask your receiver manufacturer what the safe current draw is from pin 18.