Why Bi-wiring Makes No Sense.

[Seth=L]

I own this book about High-End audio purchasing called "The Complete Guide to High-End Audio" Second Edition. I don't know what Robert Harley is smokin' but I think I want some, so long as I am no where were I can buy cables.

Just read this and tell me what you think-

Bi-wiring is running two lengths of cable between the power amplifier and loudspeakers. This technique usually produces much better sound quality than conventional single wiring. Most high-end loudspeakers have two pairs of binding posts for bi-wiring, with one pair connected to the crossover's tweeter circuit and the the other pair connected to the woofer's circuit. The jumpers connecting the the two pairs of binding posts fitted at the factory must be removed for bi-wiring.

OK, so far it all appears to be BS, it gets better.

In a bi-wired system, the amplifier "sees" a higher impedance on the tweeter cable at low frequencies, and a lower impedance ha high frequencies. The opposite is true in the woofer half of the bi-wired pair. This causes the signal to be split up, with high frequencies traveling mostly in the pair diveing the loudspeaker's tweeter circuit and low frequencies conducted by the pair connected to the loudspeaker's woofer circuit.

Wait a minute, the amplifier can "see", wow! That is like space age or something isn't it?

This frequency splitting reportedly reduces the magnetic interactions in the cable, resulting in better sound. The large magnetic fields set up around the conductors by low-frequency energy can't affect the transfer of treble energy. No one knows exactly how or why bi-wiring works, but on nearly all loudspeakers with bi-wiring provision, it makes a big improvement in the sound. Whatever you cable budget, you should bi-wire if you loudspeaker has bi-wired inputs, even if it means buying two runs of less expensive cables.

Words/phrases like nearly, reportedly, and no one knows exactly how or why...this works, makes me wonder how reliable this information is. Of course there is also doubt that stems from what I believe to be BS. I will tell you why no one knows, because it is all in the user's mind. If you believe it will sound better bi-wired, then go ahead, so long as you think it sounds better more power to you. Just don't call me when you are broke from buying $500 sets of cables.

You can bi-wire your loudspeakers with wo identical single-wire runs, or with a specially prepared bi-wire set. A bi-wire set has one pair (positive and negative) of terminations at the amplifier end of the cable, and two pairs at the loudspeaker end of the cable. This makes it easier to hook up, and probably offers slightly better sound quality.

Again we see the non-absolute terms like "probably". There apparently isn't any solid evidence to support bi-wiring, go figure right?

Loudspeakers can be connected with a single bi-wire set in which a single cable with multiple internal conductors has two pairs of terminations at the other end. Although this approach is much less expensive tan two runs of cable, you lose the benefits of magnetically isolating the low- and high-frequency conductors from each other.

He probably uses styrafoam lifters for his cable runs and he probably can't conceal his wires either because the would be way to many.

Most bi-wired sets use identical cables for the high- and low-frequency legs. Mixing cables, however, can have several advantages. By using a cable with good bass on the low-frequency pair, and more expensive but sweeter-sounding cable on the high-frequency pair, you can get better performance for a lower cost. Use a less expensive cable on the bass and put more money in to the higher-frequency cable. If you've already got two pairs of cable the same length, the higher-quality cable usually sounds better on the high-frequency side of the bi-wired pair. If you use different cables for bi-wiring, they should be made by the same manufacturer and have similar physical construction. If the cables in a bi-wired set have different capacitances or inductances, those capacitances and inductances change the loudspeaker's crossover characteristics.

So that is contradictory, if a cheaper wire is good for the bass but a more expensive one is "sweeter" and sounds better with high frequencies wouldn't the cables have to be different. Well first I would have to believe there was a difference between cables to even question that, so I will let someone with extensive knowledge on how cables "sound" explain that one to me.

I just thought this was interesting to read and to laugh at. Hope you enjoy it as much I have.

P.S. Sorry for the long post.

 

[dave1490]

So that is contradictory, if a cheaper wire is good for the bass but a more expensive one is "sweeter" and sounds better with high frequencies wouldn't the cables have to be different. Well first I would have to believe there was a difference between cables to even question that, so I will let someone with extensive knowledge on how cables "sound" explain that one to me.

I just thought this was interesting to read and to laugh at. Hope you enjoy it as much I have.

P.S. Sorry for the long post.[/QUOTE]

i find heavy copper is a better bass wire.and 20gaw silver wire sounds more crisp for tweeters.i thought about this but the 10%more condutivity of silver would seem to give a phaseing problem.if you use silver alone like i did you,ll notice a loss of bass.

 

[Seth=L]

i find heavy copper is a better bass wire.and 20gaw silver wire sounds more crisp for tweeters.i thought about this but the 10%more condutivity of silver would seem to give a phaseing problem.if you use silver alone like i did you,ll notice a loss of bass.

20 awg is very thin wire, are you sure that isn't why the bass when down? It is sort of like a water hose. You try to put to much water into a small hose you get compression.

 

[dave1490]

20 awg is very thin wire, are you sure that isn't why the bass when down? It is sort of like a water hose. You try to put to much water into a small hose you get compression.

i made interconnect cables but the same is true for speaker wire,but more beefy gaw

 

[Seth=L]

i made interconnect cables but the same is true for speaker wire

Do you mean interconnects, that was the 20 awg cables?

 

[dave1490]

Do you mean interconnects, that was the 20 awg cables?

well their really 4 hot and 4 neg,s 24gaw each wraped in copper for a final gaw of about 20gaw-silver.id like to try heavy copper for bass and thinner silver for the higher frq.seems like the best of both world,s.and yes they are interconnects.

 

[Seth=L]

well their really 4 hot and 4 neg,s 24gaw each wraped in copper for a final gaw of about 20gaw-silver.

Right, are you bi-wiring?

 

[dave1490]

Right, are you bi-wiring?

bi-wiring is just a word that people use to split the hi and low freq,some use differnt gaw to accomplish this.and no im not bi-wiring.just 10 gaw 413 strand mega flex tube silver plater copper.

 

[highfihoney]

Robert Harley is an idiot & the only thing his book is good for aside from amusing one's self (or emergency toilet paper ) is to use it to decode the terminology used in describing sounds(Audiophile Ebonics).

 

[Buckle-meister]

You try to put to much water into a small hose you get compression.

Actually, what you get is pressure. Water is generally considered to be incompressible.

 

[Seth=L]

Actually, what you get is pressure. Water is generally considered to be incompressible.

What happens when you force to much water through a hose?

 

[Buckle-meister]

What happens when you force to much water through a hose?

Pressure increases until something ruptures.

Bang!

 

[Seth=L]

Pressure increases until something ruptures.

Bang!

Why would silver wire, 20 awg, sound different? Is it because it is silver or because it is very thin?

 

[Buckle-meister]

Why would silver wire, 20 awg, sound different? Is it because it is silver or because it is very thin?

Pass, though I suspect it's thin to keep the cost of the silver content down.

 

[Seth=L]

Well at least I know that Bi-Wiring is bogus. I need to research silver wiring.

 

[jonnythan]

When bi-wiring, you take an electrical signal traveling through one wire and split it into two wires 20 feet earlier than you normally would.

Anyone who thinks this makes a difference knows nothing whatsoever about electricity.

 

[Buckle-meister]

Well at least I know that Bi-Wiring is bogus.

My understanding is that bi-wiring is not bogus...when used in conjunction with an active crossover. It's when (in the vast majority of cases) people passively bi-wire their speakers that it makes no difference.

 

[Seth=L]

My understanding is that bi-wiring is not bogus...when used in conjunction with an active crossover. It's when (in the vast majority of cases) people passively bi-wire their speakers that it makes no difference.

Why would that help, I made this argument once before and I got shot down. But I understand why. The speaker's crossover, in most cases isn't over-riden, so it really makes things conceivably worse in reality, unless I am mistaken.

 

[Buckle-meister]

Why...

Looky here.

 

[Seth=L]

Looky here.

That is "quad-amping", Bi-wiring makes no sense, bi-amping is perfectly logical. But when you feed a speaker a signal from one amplifier and use two sets of cables (the amplifier "seeing" anything is a far cry from logical) that does nothing but raise your cabling costs.

With a 4 way speaker it does make sense to actively amplify each part with different amp. The x-over in those Nautilus are very sophisticated, I would never over-ride it with some kind of active x-over.