Toshiba INCREASES HD DVD Marketing

[The Dukester]

I think that if Toshiba want's to provide proof of continued support and belief in the product, they should come out with new players. That would convince me they wanted it to succeed, or at least continue for awhile. Simply reducing prices on existing players says they are getting all they can while they can until they run out or decide to quit making the exising players. I could be crazy, though.

I wonder if they had new players at CES and pulled them when the Warner announcement came out?

FWIW, I wish there had been no war, just competition between manufacturers putting out the same format. No doubt in my mind that would have worked much better in adoption and I believe prices would be coming down nicely, albeit perhaps not as low or as fast as HD DVD came down.

 

[stratman]

My only fear is that the winning format will turn into the next LaserDisc. Up to now hi def dvd players account for roughly 10% of the market, if the average consumer doesn't adopt it will disappear, (sorry Duke!) the economy will be a bigger player in the fate of hi def dvd. The numbers that came back from the Christmas season were flaccid at best. SD DVD is still the king of the hill (for now.)

 

[j_garcia]

SD DVD is still the king of the hill just like VHS was though... SD DVD sales have dropped quite a bit over the last year, so the novelty has worn off for J6P who just switched from VHS 2 years ago I guess. Prices are not going to come down to DVD levels immediately, however just like VHS, one way to get people to switch is to STOP MAKING SD DVDs; these are the same studios releasing the DVDs after all; and once there is an actual winner, they can do this (phase out over time just as with VHS).

 

[stratman]

SD DVD is still the king of the hill just like VHS was though... SD DVD sales have dropped quite a bit over the last year, so the novelty has worn off for J6P who just switched from VHS 2 years ago I guess. Prices are not going to come down to DVD levels immediately, however just like VHS, one way to get people to switch is to STOP MAKING SD DVDs; these are the same studios releasing the DVDs after all; and once there is an actual winner, they can do this (phase out over time just as with VHS).

Correct, but then they'll have to reinvest more capital in turning regular SD DVD production into bluray, I don't know how much that entails, the risk that the studios want to take, or how much J6P is willing to invest if his job is in jeopardy (actual or perceived), especially if he's in the construction/retail sector. Interesting times indeed. I hope it doesn't end like LaserDisc.

 

[TVJon]

I'm watching another niche player - Apple, Inc. - to see whether they add Bluray to their computers - and whether it's part of the rumored to be updated AppleTV. The MacWorld Keynote is tomorrow - we'll find out then. Apple's endorsement could be important -- especially given its growing profile in the digital content world.

TVJon

 

[MUDSHARK]

I think Stratman is right on about DVD. My 26 year old son said to me the other day that I'm the only one he knows with a Hd television. In my entire company of 400 employees there might be 5 with HD televisions (and those are RP sub 1,000 dollar models). I will labor over a speaker purchase for two years but we picked out the DLP in a single afternoon. If not for the promise of superior sound formats I would not even be more than curious.

The intelligentsia of this forum is not even close to the vast vast majority of citizens. My take is it doesn't really matter. The people here will be downloading HD movies without either format in a few years while the public will not even care let alone understand what the fuss was about.

The movie studios want the economies of large production runs and that means DVD like Rock N'Roll is here to stay.

 

[stratman]

I think Stratman is right on about DVD. My 26 year old son said to me the other day that I'm the only one he knows with a Hd television. In my entire company of 400 employees there might be 5 with HD televisions (and those are RP sub 1,000 dollar models). I will labor over a speaker purchase for two years but we picked out the DLP in a single afternoon. If not for the promise of superior sound formats I would not even be more than curious.

The intelligentsia of this forum is not even close to the vast vast majority of citizens. My take is it doesn't really matter. The people here will be downloading HD movies without either format in a few years while the public will not even care let alone understand what the fuss was about.

The movie studios want the economies of large production runs and that means DVD like Rock N'Roll is here to stay.

Agreed, there are many forces at work against hi-def dvd. Right now there are billions invested in a product that's reaching roughly 10% of the CE buying public (which entails the hardcore hobbysts, mainly us.) The economy, return on initial investment, confusion and apathy will be four tall hills Bluray will need to conquer before getting close to SD DVD sales and profit figures in the foreseeable future. I'm not saying its impossible, just highly inprobable with the existing conditions. So the first chapter of the "battle" might be closing, but the real war is far from over.

 

[The Dukester]

My only fear is that the winning format will turn into the next LaserDisc. Up to now hi def dvd players account for roughly 10% of the market, if the average consumer doesn't adopt it will disappear, (sorry Duke!) the economy will be a bigger player in the fate of hi def dvd. The numbers that came back from the Christmas season were flaccid at best. SD DVD is still the king of the hill (for now.)

You haven't heard of HD DVD?! Your'e killin' me, Smalls.

Strat, you could be right about them becoming like Laserdisc, but I hope not. I don't think the studios killing SD will force the adoption of HDM on the average person. They will probably just get mad for awhile and not buy anything. They may eventually go for it, but it depends on what else has come along in the meantime to offer them a choice.

I also don't see downloads taking off in the near future. There are alot of young folks coming up that are used to downloading music, so it may take off eventually, but not in the near future, IMHO. Music and movies are two different things, too. Music is an almost anywhere, anytime type of thing. It isn't a wise idea to do yardwork, jog, wash the car or numerous other things while wathcing a movie. Movies are a sit down and relax time.

As for the success of HD DVD or BD, I think the only way to achieve mass adoption is for mass advertising, lower prices on hardware and software, putting out something that WORKS without firmware updates every few weeks and this silly war being over. Unity, baby, that's what I'm talking about. Getting the word out about HDM is the best thing that can happen out of Toshiba's not giving up yet. Just don't win the battle and lose the war. The real war is not with BD, it's SD if you ask me.

Oh, and Strat...stop with all the negative waves about the economy, dude! It's all good!

 

[stratman]

Hey Duke, it is all good!!!

Nothing but a small bump, we'll get over it! My problem with Net downloads is that the majority of the American public will not go for it, it's going to have to be extremely user-friendly almost like a hotel. Anyone over 45 will not want to bother (unless they really like to mess around with computers), remember the big to do with VCRs: the clock, the programming, putting in the tape, blah, blah blah. Net downloads: the young, optical media: everyone else.

 

[MUDSHARK]

Go easy on that over 45 stuff!

Never too old to rock n'roll.

 

[stratman]

That's for sure look at ZZ Top or The Stones, those guys have formaldehyde for blood, but they can outrock any of these new so-called rock bands!

 

[Hi Ho]

As for the success of HD DVD or BD, I think the only way to achieve mass adoption is for mass advertising, lower prices on hardware and software, putting out something that WORKS without firmware updates every few weeks and this silly war being over. Unity, baby, that's what I'm talking about. Getting the word out about HDM is the best thing that can happen out of Toshiba's not giving up yet. Just don't win the battle and lose the war. The real war is not with BD, it's SD if you ask me.

That's exactly what has me so baffled about this HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray battle. What made Joe Average want to get a Blu-Ray player when he could get HD-DVD for half the price? Isn't price everything to Joe Average?

HD-DVD was a completed spec right out of the gate. Sure, there were firmware update but every HD-DVD player from day one supported every feature in the spec. We're still waiting for profile 2.0 Blu-Ray players!

What caused Joe Average to go against the grain and buy into an incomplete format that cost twice as much? I bet that he wouldn't and I went with HD-DVD. Apparently I bet wrong.

 

[stratman]

That's exactly what has me so baffled about this HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray battle. What made Joe Average want to get a Blu-Ray player when he could get HD-DVD for half the price? Isn't price everything to Joe Average?

HD-DVD was a completed spec right out of the gate. Sure, there were firmware update but every HD-DVD player from day one supported every feature in the spec. We're still waiting for profile 2.0 Blu-Ray players!

What caused Joe Average to go against the grain and buy into an incomplete format that cost twice as much? I bet that he wouldn't and I went with HD-DVD. Apparently I bet wrong.

One very important aspect got J6P to look at BD: advertising. Bluray came out punching with heavy saturation and rotation all accross cable, satellite and printed media, whilst HD DVD stayed back and tried to get converts with lower pricing and arguably better software implementation. But like the old adage says "out of sight out of mind," if I don't know you're there I wont buy you. You have to be aggressive, that's marketing 101.

 

[Hi Ho]

One very important aspect got J6P to look at BD: advertising. Bluray came out punching with heavy saturation and rotation all accross cable, satellite and printed media, whilst HD DVD stayed back and tried to get converts with lower pricing and arguably better software implementation. But like the old adage says "out of sight out of mind," if I don't know you're there I wont buy you. You have to be aggressive, that's marketing 101.

That's just one more aspect that makes it that much more baffling. One would think that Toshiba would realize that advertising is absolutely necessary. I know I have seen far more Blu-Ray ads than HD-DVD. I have never figured out why they seemed to slack on ads!

 

[aberkowitz]

That's just one more aspect that makes it that much more baffling. One would think that Toshiba would realize that advertising is absolutely necessary. I know I have seen far more Blu-Ray ads than HD-DVD. I have never figured out why they seemed to slack on ads!

That's because Toshiba is a hardware manufacturer, while Sony is an entertainment company. I would bet on Sony any day of the week to out-market the hell out of Toshiba- on top of the fact that Sony was probably able to lean on both their gaming and movie production areas to help provide marketing dollars to put towards Blu Ray promotion.

 

[alexsound]

That's exactly what has me so baffled about this HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray battle. What made Joe Average want to get a Blu-Ray player when he could get HD-DVD for half the price? Isn't price everything to Joe Average?

HD-DVD was a completed spec right out of the gate. Sure, there were firmware update but every HD-DVD player from day one supported every feature in the spec. We're still waiting for profile 2.0 Blu-Ray players!

What caused Joe Average to go against the grain and buy into an incomplete format that cost twice as much? I bet that he wouldn't and I went with HD-DVD. Apparently I bet wrong.

Available software, OR, better yet, the illusion of available software was IMO another deciding factor. Even though HD-DVD had more titles available initially, the different adds for BD showed all these different characters from major movies like Spiderman, Pirates of the Carribean, Harry Potter, etc. Of course, many of the movies weren't even available yet in BD, but they at least gave the impression that they would be. Eventually, BD did overtake HD-DVD in title availability.

I also believe that, regardless of the price differences in the hardware, the pricing was high enough for both formats, that most of the early adopters would be more along the lines of a "videophile", not really a "Joe Average" therefore, they won't just look at the component itself, but also, how much the software was, and how much of it is available, etc. Even though BD was no quite "complete", it had some major backing from the big boys in the A/V world, like Panasonic, Pioneer, and Samsung and Phillips. Others that committed to BD were Mitsubishi, Sharp and Denon. That's where HD-DVD could have possibley won the war, but they couldn't get any other major manufacturers, other than RCA to jump on board. Yeah, Onkyo made a late announcement, but at this point, I don't think their HD player will be out for very long. Also having the prices are $30+ dollars for ONE movie at most retail outlets for most titles put them in the same boat as BD.

Please don't take this as a defense for BD. I like Toshiba, and still have my SD-3109 DVD player from them. I just think it's time for them to move on.
At this point, I don't think they can win this now.

 

[stratman]

That's just one more aspect that makes it that much more baffling. One would think that Toshiba would realize that advertising is absolutely necessary. I know I have seen far more Blu-Ray ads than HD-DVD. I have never figured out why they seemed to slack on ads!

Back in 1989 Infiniti did the same dumb thing with their Q45, it cost them dearly, it let Lexus overtake them, they still haven't rebounded and at this stage they never will, Lexus outsells them by a wide margin.

 

[j_garcia]

I saw an HD DVD ad at the theater before some movie from one of the format backers...that was about the only ad I ever saw. I have seen Blu-ray ads in magazines, on TV, and yet the average person STILL doesn't know what either one is. If BD wins, people will know what it is, but that only means fence sitters and the second "stage phase" adopters will buy in - that may add another 10-20% to the total, but SD DVD will still be in the mind of the masses.

 

[majorloser]

The download sollution is the ABSOLUTE best idea. But until we get some companies to get off their butt and provide us enough bandwidth it might be awhile. We are a bandwidth hungry society.

I still say that companies need to move away from the mechanical drive optical media. No matter what they do it will still be "just another shiny spinning disc."

Toshiba has lost the war and just doesn't want to tell it's stockholders.

Got to give Clint his props.http://www.audioholics.com/news/editorials/10-more-reasons-hd-dvd-failed/?searchterm=both will lose

 

[GlocksRock]

The download sollution is the ABSOLUTE best idea.

I disagree completely

Downloadable content is good, but I don't see it as a solution that is better than physical media. What happens when you want to watch a movie on a different tv, or take it to a friends house, or play it somewhere without an internet connection? I still say physical media is the only way to go, wether it be an optical disc, flash drive, or some other medium. You can store downloadable content on a hard drive, but eventually you will run out of space and then what? Pay again to redownload what you already paid for? Plus if there is an outage of online service, or someone else is using a pc in your house and using up a lot of bandwidth, will that disturb your movie? I don't know, but you won't have those issues with phsyical media.