Too much amp for the speakers?

[PENG]

From the same article you linked:

...The common misconception is that the distortion creates harmonics, and the additional harmonic content destroys the tweeter. Not really - woofers and midrange drivers can also blow from a distorted amp, and this is unlikely to have anything to do with harmonics...

My take: it is not the "squared signal component" that damages the speaker. It is the excessive average power that damages the speakers.

Perhaps we are just miscommunicating. Perhaps that is exactly what you are saying - that the clipping can produce the excessive power. And the excessive power is what damages the speakers.

Let me ask you this. From an engineering perspective. If the speaker engineer recommends to use 100W-200W amp for the speaker, is it a bad idea to use a 100W-200W amp? Is the engineer wrong for making such a recommendation?

That's why I agree with you that we should emphasize the term "average" power. I also believe in theory overpower amp would cause more speaker damages than underpower amps do because underpower amps must clipp first, in order produce the excessive harmonics that would result in sending higher average power to speakers, and only if time is in their favor (i.e. sustained long enough) for them to damage the speakers. Even then, they tend to be of much lower risk to the woofers.

Having said that, I have no proof, and I doubt there are any statistics out there. So it boils down to just whatever one choose to believe. I believe what I believe only base on my perceived logic of events.

 

[PENG]

Netflix is slow as heck on all sides of the borders.

I don't use Netflix anymore. Only my wife and kids use Netflix.

Question #1: How many amps have you killed?
Question #2: How many speakers (drivers) have you killed?
Question #3: Why did you turn up the volume?

Well Sir, I can't top this, may be 3 dB can but only if he watches TWD.

 

[3db]

Yes, I agree that clipping can be a significant factor because it can cause excessive power.

But I also think that excessive power will occur regardless of clipping if a person were to crank the volume all the way up.

For example - using a 100W amp that clips at extreme volume (but otherwise would never clip) or using a 300W amp that does not clip at extreme volume. Both cases can damage the speakers.

I guess it's a double edge sword. Both sides can cut you just as easily.

It's probably the same exact thing all of us are saying, just different ways and in circles.

I'm not agruing about overly power amps... I'm a 110% behind that it will definately cause damage if power is not used prudently....

My sticky point was that clipping in underpowered amp is primary, not secondary... without clipping the "squared wave" with more average power would not occur.

All is good.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Rules
1.) If your amp/avr are rated for higher power than your speakers, never turn the amp/avr past half way.
2.) If your amp/avr has equal power rating to the speakers, never turn the amp/avr past half way.
3.) If your amp/avr is much more powerful than your speakers:
don't operate when drunk or allow drunk friends to operate
listen carefully to your speakers so they don't strained or making any other funny noises

All of us would agree to that.

I think my ONLY disagreement was towards the cliché: "It is safer to use a more powerful amp" when the speaker engineer recommends 50W-200W and the user asks if he should buy a 200W amp or 300W amp.

My POV is, it is NOT any safer at all to use a more powerful amp than what is recommended by the speaker engineer. It is just as dangerous.

I am very pro-calculus, pro-physics, and pro-engineering.

That was my initial college major and all.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I'm not agruing about overly power amps... I'm a 110% behind that it will definately cause damage if power is not used prudently....

My sticky point was that clipping in underpowered amp is primary, not secondary... without clipping the "squared wave" with more average power would not occur.

All is good.

I agree totally.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

That's why I agree with you that we should emphasize the term "average" power. I also believe in theory overpower amp would cause more speaker damages than underpower amps do because underpower amps must clipp first, in order produce the excessive harmonics that would result in sending higher average power to speakers, and only if time is in their favor (i.e. sustained long enough) for them to damage the speakers. Even then, they tend to be of much lower risk to the woofers.

Having said that, I have no proof, and I doubt there are any statistics out there. So it boils down to just whatever one choose to believe. I believe what I believe only base on my perceived logic of events.

I believe whatever you electrical engineers tell me when it comes to electrical.

Time of exposure has got to be a factor. Average power has got to be a factor.

I assume that mild clipping probably does not produce audible distortion in speakers. But severe cataclysmic clipping would produce audible distortion. The moment we hear that severe audible clipping distortion, we know that something is terribly amiss. Thus we can turn down the volume immediately and save the speaker because we limit time of exposure.

If we use an over-powered amp, clipping may never occur. We may never hear audible distortion, at least not due to clipping. So we don't decrease the volume immediately and don't limit time of exposure.

That's my partial engineering brain thinking.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I'm not an engineer or EE or speaker engineer.

But I'm just thinking that if I were an EE & speaker engineer, and I did all my engineering analyses and calculations and all that engineering stuff , and I made a recommendation to everyone that they should use an amp that is 100W-200W for my speakers, that everyone would take me seriously.

Otherwise, it would really hurt my feelings.

 

[3db]

Otherwise, it would really hurt my feelings.

You get used to it

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

You get used to it

True that.