time to UPGRADE

[razzy]

Ah, 2K for two speaks changes things a lot for sure alright.

The quote you ask about, it's like I said, I was just trying to tame your expectations with your old budget. I didn't want you to think, oh I can have cake and eat the whole thing, I mean shoving it in my face double handed, cranking the snot out of it, and all of a sudden you're placing orders for new tweeters, receiver, etc.

Remember how I said some speakers don't go all that low, so that they can do some other things tremendously? Your budget is not quite there, but getting pretty close I'd say, to some Triple 8s for example. Not the highest sens I've ever seen in the world, but the spec given is still VERY high at 98/w/m. If another speaker you're looking at has say a respectable 89/w/m, it still would require EIGHT times the power to match the Triple 8s. Then, you add silly power handling capability to boot, and basically, watch out for your ears.

JTR Speakers*|* Triple 8HT

Make sure to watch it to the end, only 1 min long.
JTR Growler Duo subwoofer & Triple 8 top. - YouTube

and since i'm buying used or b stock factory direct i can get something really good for that pricerange.

lol i understand - i don't like cranking music and getting distortion.

haha yeah i've heard of JTR - i looked at them when i was subwoofer shopping last year. they make some pretty crazy stuff it looks like. i don't doubt the SPL levels are king with them but are they clean and articulate like other high quality speakers i wonder? unfortunately they look awful lol

 

[razzy]

okay so i just finished my latest demo session yesterday! it was even more eye opening than my last session!


Here's the speakers I heard in the order I heard them: (all w/o subs)
PSB Imagine T2
Totem Hawk
(same room same placement, same amps)
Magnepan 20.7 (idk about the model exactly-i think it was that one)
(same room, mirrored placement, similar amps)
PSB Synchrony 1
Paradigm Signature S8 V5
Dynaudio Contour 5.4
(same room same placement, same amps)


Demo Material
-Dashboard Confessional: So Impossible EP
-Red: The End of Silence
-Jimmy Eat World: Futures
-Dove: Jazz Classics
-Jesus Culture: Awakening Live


Here are some of my overall impressions:
-YOU CANNOT BELIEVE WHAT YOU READ UNTIL YOU HEAR FOR YOURSELF! - Unless you get an opinion that is unbiased and even better an opinion from someone who you know shares your particulars in audio. I can't believe how DIFFERENT the opinions of posters here and elsewhere are from my actual demo experiences - NIGHT AND DAY! It makes me wonder if people are getting paid to give certain opinions or something...and for those thinking I'm off my rocker, I did not audition these alone - my blind uncle who has perfect pitch and is a virtuoso pianist with an acute ability to discern sound was along with me and also echoed many of my concluions - yes we had different LIKES and DISLIKES but how we HEARD each speaker was virtually identical. Granted OPINIONS DIFFER...BUT certain claims i've read are just ridiculously false!
-After hearing all of these speakers I realized that demoing speakers is easier than expected! I thought I would have SUCH a hard time deciphering what I liked - it was not that hard at all
-Also, it was amazing to note that jumping from series w/ in a brand proved to deliver a totally different experience than I had expected. BOTH the imagine to the synchrony and the studio to the signature were NOT improved versions of each other but rather TOTALLY different speakers with their own distinct audio characteristics.


Here are my impressions for each speaker respectively:
-PSB Imagine T2: very good detail but a little too much in your face sound to me - the sax on some songs was too shrill (MUCH smoother and more pleasant on the synchrony 1's), powerful bass with good extension w/o a sub (most bass out of all the speakers)
-Totem Hawk: sounded very STERILE with little character... like a yamaha NS-10 studio monitor pair! NO tactile experience whatsoever with these - i've both read on totem's website and heard people make claims on the forums that they were great with bass extension - i have one question - did they demo them with a subwoofer?! Seriously!!
-Magnepan 20.7: tried these tall slim giants for a kick and they had the most laid back sound presentation out of all of them - the ribbons are certainly the cause for this - my uncle LOVED these b/c of that particular way they sounded - not in your face whatsoever...like you are at a show sitting in the back listening to a performance - that is the impression they give.
-PSB Synchrony 1: Excellent speaker - not too in your face but present enough to be powerful and involving. Definitely a very clear and articulate speaker and one of my favorites. It's amazing how this is NOT an upgraded version of the Imagine T2 - it is an ENTIRELY different speaker! (and a MUCH better one IMO) The voicing of its sonic character was SO different and very beautiful. Jazz sounded EXCELLENT on these babies! This had the cleanest and most articulate and musical bass out of all of them.
-Paradigm Signature S8 V5: now I was expecting a slight upgrade from the studio's for these but that is not what I got. again like the synchrony's, they are a totally different speaker from their younger brothers - the sigs were more laid back and mellow than the studio's and didn't really wow me like the studios did - the sound was very pleasant and detailed but the sound character was not better IMO than the studios.
-Dynaudio Contour 5.4: TERRIBLE! I'm a HUGE dashboard confessional fan and i played track one from so impossible ep and the S's were STABBING me in the ears - they were SO pronounced it was disgustingly distracting from the experience. I hit the stop button after about a minute of play. LOL


My questions:
Could someone tell me if there's a dynaudio speaker that doesn't sound like this one did? I listened to their studio monitor offerings (bm5aii etc.) and same thing SUPER sharp s's and just terrible painful listening experience! I can't wrap my mind around why people rave about dynaudio speakers (and MANY do) unless they offer a speaker that doesn't do this terrible thing to the listener! lol
Could someone tell me if the totem forest (the only other totem in my price range) has a different sound character than the hawk? Like I described the imagine/synchrony and studio/signature being different beasts - is it the same for the hawk/forest?
Can anyone who has listened to any of my ID possibles who gets a feel for my taste tell me what i may or may not like? It is MUCH easier to demo in store brands but ID is a BIG pain for obvious reasons. I have plans to demo all of the remaining dealer brands except for energy - can't seem to find the veritas v6.3 anywhere near me.


Bottom Line - for price and audio quality the Paradigm Studio 100 V5 is still at the top of my list and has yet to be dethroned by anything else I've listened to thus far! I would say a close second or even possibly a tie in the audio quality department would be the PSB synchrony 1's but they are nearly 2k more per pair!


Updated Possibles:
Paradigm Studio 100 $3500/ /$1475
Energy Veritas V-6.3 $3000/ /1050
Revel F206 $3000/ /
Monitor Audio Gold GX200 $ / /$1800
KEF R700 $ / /$1850
Focal Chorus 836v ($/$2550)/836w $4400/
comparable canton offering - so annoying can't find prices
Axiom Audio M80 V3 (ID)
Pinnacle BD 2000 II $5000/ (used only) (ID)
Aperion Verus Grand (ID)
Ascend Sierra $1900/ (ID)
Salk Song Tower (ID)
Philharmonic 1 Tower (ID)
SVS Ultra Towers $2000 (ID)
Atlantic Technology 8200e LR $3700/ (ID)


THE SEARCH GOES ON!

 

[jostenmeat]

Here are some of my overall impressions:
-YOU CANNOT BELIEVE WHAT YOU READ UNTIL YOU HEAR FOR YOURSELF! - Unless you get an opinion that is unbiased and even better an opinion from someone who you know shares your particulars in audio. I can't believe how DIFFERENT the opinions of posters here and elsewhere are from my actual demo experiences - NIGHT AND DAY! It makes me wonder if people are getting paid to give certain opinions or something...and for those thinking I'm off my rocker, I did not audition these alone - my blind uncle who has perfect pitch and is a virtuoso pianist with an acute ability to discern sound was along with me and also echoed many of my concluions - yes we had different LIKES and DISLIKES but how we HEARD each speaker was virtually identical. Granted OPINIONS DIFFER...BUT certain claims i've read are just ridiculously false!

Curiously, like what for example? Opinions are opinions and there's nothing wrong with that. You know I recently met an extremely talented jazz pianist (who runs a jazz dept at a school as well), and apparently we share some AV interests as well. He is quite convinced about the superiority of tubes in an audio system. I put up a counter statement or two, but you know, he likes what he likes. He's now looking to get into vinyl as well. He scored some very early gen BW 801s as his fee for giving some lessons to a certain student in the past. Is his claim false, maybe, I dunno. He has an amazing (musical) ear and knows way too dang much about jazz music, that's for sure.

I own some PSBs and planars. That said I did listen to some Contours a number of years ago for a little bit, and I quite liked them. It wasn't a very controlled situation at all, however. At least you know you hate them. One thing I always wonder about every time a Dynaudio or Totem speaker comes up is what the sens or eff might be. Every once in a while it seems they have a very low rated one, particularly Totem, I want to say something like 81db/w/m or something, I can't recall. The ones you listened to seem to be reasonable though. I'm curious what you'll end up with.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Everyone is different for sure. Everyone has a different opinion. If you are gonig to ask for opinions, expect a hundred different opinions. I think my Dynaudio X32 sound great. But that's me.

We have to buy the speakers that sound the best to us.

 

[cpp]

We have to buy the speakers that sound the best to us.

Well said. Please yourself, not someone else.

 

[3db]

okay so i just finished my latest demo session yesterday! it was even more eye opening than my last session!




Here are some of my overall impressions:
-YOU CANNOT BELIEVE WHAT YOU READ UNTIL YOU HEAR FOR YOURSELF! - Unless you get an opinion that is unbiased and even better an opinion from someone who you know shares your particulars in audio. I can't believe how DIFFERENT the opinions of posters here and elsewhere are from my actual demo experiences - NIGHT AND DAY! It makes me wonder if people are getting paid to give certain opinions or something...and for those thinking I'm off my rocker, I did not audition these alone - my blind uncle who has perfect pitch and is a virtuoso pianist with an acute ability to discern sound was along with me and also echoed many of my concluions - yes we had different LIKES and DISLIKES but how we HEARD each speaker was virtually identical. Granted OPINIONS DIFFER...BUT certain claims i've read are just ridiculously false!
-After hearing all of these speakers I realized that demoing speakers is easier than expected! I thought I would have SUCH a hard time deciphering what I liked - it was not that hard at all
-Also, it was amazing to note that jumping from series w/ in a brand proved to deliver a totally different experience than I had expected. BOTH the imagine to the synchrony and the studio to the signature were NOT improved versions of each other but rather TOTALLY different speakers with their own distinct audio characteristics.

Hearing is a very subjective sense and no two people hear exactly the same thing. Throw in subjective bias and you'll have people's opnions vary all over the map. Its no that they are right or worng...or being a salesman etc.. its their subjective opinions. The trick is to find something that best fits your hearing, not somebody else's hearing.

 

[razzy]

Curiously, like what for example? Opinions are opinions and there's nothing wrong with that. You know I recently met an extremely talented jazz pianist (who runs a jazz dept at a school as well), and apparently we share some AV interests as well. He is quite convinced about the superiority of tubes in an audio system. I put up a counter statement or two, but you know, he likes what he likes. He's now looking to get into vinyl as well. He scored some very early gen BW 801s as his fee for giving some lessons to a certain student in the past. Is his claim false, maybe, I dunno. He has an amazing (musical) ear and knows way too dang much about jazz music, that's for sure.

I own some PSBs and planars. That said I did listen to some Contours a number of years ago for a little bit, and I quite liked them. It wasn't a very controlled situation at all, however. At least you know you hate them. One thing I always wonder about every time a Dynaudio or Totem speaker comes up is what the sens or eff might be. Every once in a while it seems they have a very low rated one, particularly Totem, I want to say something like 81db/w/m or something, I can't recall. The ones you listened to seem to be reasonable though. I'm curious what you'll end up with.

well one for example is the statement about the hawk having great bass, i can't recall that many all i know is is that i've certainly read plenty of wild statements lol

i'm curious as well

Everyone is different for sure. Everyone has a different opinion. If you are gonig to ask for opinions, expect a hundred different opinions. I think my Dynaudio X32 sound great. But that's me.

We have to buy the speakers that sound the best to us.

absolutely but all i'm saying is that i'd like opinions that can help me narrow my ID choices now that people can get a sense for my taste.
people can have their opinions but calling black white is just plain stupid.

Well said. Please yourself, not someone else.

that's what i'm going for - totally worth all the demo effort.

Hearing is a very subjective sense and no two people hear exactly the same thing. Throw in subjective bias and you'll have people's opnions vary all over the map. Its no that they are right or worng...or being a salesman etc.. its their subjective opinions. The trick is to find something that best fits your hearing, not somebody else's hearing.

like i said to acudeftechguy there's certainly opinions but some things people claim are just outrageously ridiculous.

 

[jostenmeat]

well one for example is the statement about the hawk having great bass, i can't recall that many all i know is is that i've certainly read plenty of wild statements lol


people can have their opinions but calling black white is just plain stupid.


like i said to acudeftechguy there's certainly opinions but some things people claim are just outrageously ridiculous.

Fine then. Go ahead and call some unnamed members here stupid and ridiculous if you need to. Seems pretty over the top to me though.

What if any certain speaker you had seemed to have anemic bass only because you were sitting in a horrible null of the room. But that the speaker actually measured ok with 3rd party measurements. If I find any measurements that prove you wrong, do I have free license to call you plain stupid and outrageously ridiculous? Anyway, your wording is pretty strong, particularly when it seems to be directed at the very forum members that you're asking help from. JMO. Maybe instead of calling some of us plain stupid and outrageously ridiculous, you could say instead you simply disagree, or have found differing impressions. Because if these statements aren't directed at us, then I have no idea who it would be.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

absolutely but all i'm saying is that i'd like opinions that can help me narrow my ID choices now that people can get a sense for my taste.
people can have their opinions but calling black white is just plain stupid.

like i said to acudeftechguy there's certainly opinions but some things people claim are just outrageously ridiculous.

When I was younger , I used to call it black-and-white & night-and-day.

But now that I'm older and wiser , I tend to like most things.

But here is one example. Monkish54, GrantedEV, and I like the sound of Phil3, Salk, Salon2, KEF Blade, TAD R1. It would seem we have a similar "sense of taste".

Yet I also like and enjoy the sound of B&W 802D2, but Monkish54 & GranteedEV do NOT like the sound of the B&W 802D2. You might say they even HATE B&W.

So just because we like similar speakers does not guarantee that we will like all the same speakers.

 

[ahblaza]

ADTG, maybe you and the others are like me, if something sounds good to me "it is good". As far as popularity and volume of sales we should all own Bose, to some they are good speakers, in the end that's all that really matters. Be happy without pre-concieved ideals, I thought that this is what audio is all about, sharing your experiences of how well something conveys the message to the listener and the emotions that follow. I know I don't want to listen to a sterile loudspeaker with no emotional impact just because it measures ruler flat. It's all about how one responds to sound they are hearing. I'm sick of look at how big mine is, it has to be better than yours, being stupid really is stupid.

 

[razzy]

Fine then. Go ahead and call some unnamed members here stupid and ridiculous if you need to. Seems pretty over the top to me though.

What if any certain speaker you had seemed to have anemic bass only because you were sitting in a horrible null of the room. But that the speaker actually measured ok with 3rd party measurements. If I find any measurements that prove you wrong, do I have free license to call you plain stupid and outrageously ridiculous? Anyway, your wording is pretty strong, particularly when it seems to be directed at the very forum members that you're asking help from. JMO. Maybe instead of calling some of us plain stupid and outrageously ridiculous, you could say instead you simply disagree, or have found differing impressions. Because if these statements aren't directed at us, then I have no idea who it would be.

lol relax!
my demos all took place at reputable dealers with adequate knowledge on placement and proper setup (with the exception of the magnolia at best buy - the B&W cm9's weren't far enough apart and they were pretty close to the back wall.

i didn't make any outrageous claims that will be disproved from some 3rd party measurements - what parts of my posts are you referring to exactly that you would think can be somehow disproved. like i said there are opinions - i HATE dynaudio but other people LOVE them. are the fundamentally "bad" speakers - well, no but for me they certainly are. BUT anyone who could've sat with me and my uncle in the room while we were listening to the totem hawks could most certainly NOT claim with any honesty that there was adequate bass coming from those speakers that would be even fairly comparable to other floorstanders in that pricerange. they are speakers with very little bass. like them or hate them but don't say they're bass capable b/c they are not. another example would be the dyns - anyone sitting with me who refused to acknowledge the harshness of the s's in the vocals would be straight out lying. you can like it or hate it but you can't state something about the speaker that is not there that clearly is.

and i don't read only this forum - i read about 5 other forums as well so don't take it so personally. i've read some pretty ridiculous stuff but who cares - people will say all sorts of crazy stuff and most people regurgitate crap that they read elsewhere from other people that have had no hands on experience with a particular product or situation! LOL

if i were to come on here and give people advice for monitor audio speakers (never heard them) and tell people xyz about the spakers i'd be a complete fool - i have ZERO information to offer people except that of which I can copy and paste from their website spec section - and even that is risky as specs can even be misleading to get sales! lol do you get my point?

When I was younger , I used to call it black-and-white & night-and-day.

But now that I'm older and wiser , I tend to like most things.

But here is one example. Monkish54, GrantedEV, and I like the sound of Phil3, Salk, Salon2, KEF Blade, TAD R1. It would seem we have a similar "sense of taste".

Yet I also like and enjoy the sound of B&W 802D2, but Monkish54 & GranteedEV do NOT like the sound of the B&W 802D2. You might say they even HATE B&W.

So just because we like similar speakers does not guarantee that we will like all the same speakers.

LOL well that is most certainly a more costlier change in perspective!

i guess your're an enigma with regards to speaker taste then - no one can figure you out!

I don't hate B&W but I certainly don't like them compared to other stuff I can get lol

ADTG, maybe you and the others are like me, if something sounds good to me "it is good". As far as popularity and volume of sales we should all own Bose, to some they are good speakers, in the end that's all that really matters. Be happy without pre-concieved ideals, I thought that this is what audio is all about, sharing your experiences of how well something conveys the message to the listener and the emotions that follow. I know I don't want to listen to a sterile loudspeaker with no emotional impact just because it measures ruler flat. It's all about how one responds to sound they are hearing. I'm sick of look at how big mine is, it has to be better than yours, being stupid really is stupid.

of course people like bose b/c if thats all that you know then yes its the best there is! lol

i'm with you on the response chart - if the speaker doesn't wow me, draw me in, move me emotionally etc. then it's not worth buying IMO

 

[3db]

LOL well that is most certainly a more costlier change in perspective!

i guess your're an enigma with regards to speaker taste then - no one can figure you out!

I don't hate B&W but I certainly don't like them compared to other stuff I can get lol

That's the point you keep missing.... Let's rephrase this in terms you may understand.... "another man's meat is another man's poison" You may choose something you really like (which is the smart thing to do off course) and some of us won't be so enthralled about your choice because we heard something we liked better. Whether or not you begin preaching black and white after you narrowed down your speakers of choice will remain to be seen .

 

[razzy]

That's the point you keep missing.... Let's rephrase this in terms you may understand.... "another man's meat is another man's poison" You may choose something you really like (which is the smart thing to do off course) and some of us won't be so enthralled about your choice because we heard something we liked better. Whether or not you begin preaching black and white after you narrowed down your speakers of choice will remain to be seen .

no i totally get it.
im not saying people can't or won't like different things, but my point was that people should not call things that are not as if they are. that's all.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

but my point was that people should not call things that are not as if they are.

Can you give a specific example?

You mean people would lie that speaker A is night & day significantly better than speaker B? When speaker A & B are very close in sound quality?

Or people claim that amp A is night & day significantly better than amp B when they really sound similar?

 

[razzy]

Can you give a specific example?

You mean people would lie that speaker A is night & day significantly better than speaker B? When speaker A & B are very close in sound quality?

Or people claim that amp A is night & day significantly better than amp B when they really sound similar?

haha i should start copying and pasting this stuff and share it with you all - I haven't up until this point but i'm going to start!

lol i'm not talking about "better" or "worse" as those are completely and legitimately definable by the listener/observer. what i'm referring to are statements made from people listening to something that isn't capable of doing what the person is claiming it can do or even worse, claiming it is doing right before their ears lol

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

haha i should start copying and pasting this stuff and share it with you all - I haven't up until this point but i'm going to start!

lol i'm not talking about "better" or "worse" as those are completely and legitimately definable by the listener/observer. what i'm referring to are statements made from people listening to something that isn't capable of doing what the person is claiming it can do or even worse, claiming it is doing right before their ears lol

Yeah, I don't get it. So people say speaker A sounds warm, when they sound bright & forward? Don't get it. I need a picture.

Or speaker A can output clean 125dB from 1m when they have a sensitivity of 80dB? So physically not possible?

 

[3db]

Noooo, you still aren't getting it. People who call things as they are hear it that way but it may disagree with what you hear.

 

[ahblaza]

I can't believe you guys are still here bickering over ...I forgot the topic

 

[3db]

I would have left it alone ahblaza but when one starts to question another's preferences, I kinda get crusty and prickly about it.

 

[razzy]

Yeah, I don't get it. So people say speaker A sounds warm, when they sound bright & forward? Don't get it. I need a picture.

Or speaker A can output clean 125dB from 1m when they have a sensitivity of 80dB? So physically not possible?

B. i'm referring to impossibilities claimed as realities! lol

Noooo, you still aren't getting it. People who call things as they are hear it that way but it may disagree with what you hear.

lol in that case there are "tonally blind" individuals like there are "color blind" folks who would INSIST all day that red is purple or whatever - you must get my point now! LOL

I can't believe you guys are still here bickering over ...I forgot the topic

hahahahaha !

I would have left it alone ahblaza but when one starts to question another's preferences, I kinda get crusty and prickly about it.

crusty eh? hahahahaha!