Need Advice, new HT 15k budget

ParadigmDawg

ParadigmDawg

Audioholic Overlord
lol

so you're recommending this?
PB13-ULTRA - SVS
That's what I have and will keep. It's the only one out of 10 subs that has stayed in my house. I am sure the Funk is as good or even slightly better but it's just difficult to beat SVS when you factor in everything.
 
ParadigmDawg

ParadigmDawg

Audioholic Overlord
You can use a $25 Smart Power Strip from Amazon that turns off the Amp (and everything hooked to the strip) about 5 seconds After the AVR is turned off.

The Crown amps have Limiters just like internal sub amps. In fact some other Crown amps have very sophisticated EQ, Limiters, etc.

I believe many sub amps are variations of these pro amps. The big difference is one is internal, one is external, and the price.
I wouldn't use a power strip for a high powered amp. You want 15 Amps continuous, 30 Amps peak ability so that leaves you with a Xantech. I used one with my outboard sub amp and it's a nifty little trigger but it's also one more thing in a line of a million other things.

Xantech Controlled AC Outlet - AC1 - Smarthome
 
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AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Audioholics will be reviewing the Funk 18.0 sub hopefully soon. We will see how the TSAD18 performs compared to the mighty SVS, HSU, & Rythmik. :D
 
S

Senact

Audioholic Intern
Audioholics will be reviewing the Funk 18.0 sub hopefully soon. We will see how the TSAD18 performs compared to the mighty SVS, HSU, & Rythmik. :D
But I want a sub now :( lol
The price point is very similar between the 18.1 and the ultra. They have a canadian dealer in Ontario so I can avoid customs. I'll see what their lead time is. Fact is, I don't think I have the skills to notice the small variations that might exist between two similar subs. If the ultra could be delivered this week, that would take precedence over Funk. I'm checking some reviews on the ultra and it sounds pretty good :)
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
But I want a sub now :( lol
The price point is very similar between the 18.1 and the ultra. They have a canadian dealer in Ontario so I can avoid customs. I'll see what their lead time is. Fact is, I don't think I have the skills to notice the small variations that might exist between two similar subs. If the ultra could be delivered this week, that would take precedence over Funk. I'm checking some reviews on the ultra and it sounds pretty good :)
Just get the SVS. It's cheaper and does quite well. Make sure to use the 20hz tuning.
 
GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Spartan
Do not place subs directly behind screen unless you don't mind a pulsating screen at extreme volumes.
That hasn't been a problem for me; both of my subs are behind the screen. Well, the bottom of the screen is above the subwoofers. If they were firing directly through the screen instead of the false wall, it might be different...
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
But I want a sub now :( lol
The price point is very similar between the 18.1 and the ultra. They have a canadian dealer in Ontario so I can avoid customs. I'll see what their lead time is. Fact is, I don't think I have the skills to notice the small variations that might exist between two similar subs. If the ultra could be delivered this week, that would take precedence over Funk. I'm checking some reviews on the ultra and it sounds pretty good :)
You could have a good sub right now or a great one if you wait a bit. I think the Funk would destroy the SVS sub- and do it in style, depending on what finish you order. Have patience and go for the Funk, higher performance and higher craftsmanship, it'll be worth the wait.
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord



The Sealed LMS doesn't exactly destroy the Ported Ultra. It only wins up high and loses down low, but not by a lot. Mind you the test is fairly old, but the drivers and subs are basically the same thing.
 
Steve81

Steve81

Audioholics Five-0
Just get the SVS. It's cheaper and does quite well.
Certainly hard to go too far wrong with it. It's got ample output for the OP's room size, it's got plenty of tuning options to help fit it to your room, it's fully warranted for 5 years, and top tier support to top it all off.

Make sure to use the 20hz tuning.
Depends on what he's after. Certainly 20Hz tuning offers the most output for the least distortion, but I think most would be hard pressed to tell those differences between it and the 16Hz tuning in real world use. Of course, I would note that I currently am running in 20Hz tune with my PB13 since I get a whole lot of nothing for gain and output was sagging by 16Hz even when tuned for it.
 
Steve81

Steve81

Audioholics Five-0
The Sealed LMS doesn't exactly destroy the Ported Ultra. It only wins up high and loses down low, but not by a lot. Mind you the test is fairly old, but the drivers and subs are basically the same thing.
The Funk 18.1 is a bit different actually. By the specs, it's using an 18" driver with ~1" of linear peak to peak excursion and an 800 watt amplifier in a fairly large ported enclosure. Funk rates it to deliver a max of 124dB output at 2 meters ground plane, although there's no indication as to what frequency or anything else. Technically a PB13U can deliver better than 120dB at 2m per CEA 2010 protocol in peaks (Josh Ricci's numbers are RMS).
 
S

Senact

Audioholic Intern
You could have a good sub right now or a great one if you wait a bit. I think the Funk would destroy the SVS sub- and do it in style, depending on what finish you order. Have patience and go for the Funk, higher performance and higher craftsmanship, it'll be worth the wait.
Are you basing that on personal experience or specs?

Edit: I've ordered an 18.1 Funk Audio sub from Nathan. I'm sure the Ultra is fantastic but I had to go with my gut. I just have a better feeling about Funk based on all the initial comments to my thread and speaking with Nathan. I'll just have to suck it up and wait.

Thanks for everyone's input, it's really helped me piece together this whole project.
 
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S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
The Funk 18.1 is a bit different actually. By the specs, it's using an 18" driver with ~1" of linear peak to peak excursion and an 800 watt amplifier in a fairly large ported enclosure. Funk rates it to deliver a max of 124dB output at 2 meters ground plane, although there's no indication as to what frequency or anything else. Technically a PB13U can deliver better than 120dB at 2m per CEA 2010 protocol in peaks (Josh Ricci's numbers are RMS).
This! The 18.1 is a very different sub than a sealed LMS Ultra sub, so that comparison does not hold at all.

Are you basing that on personal experience or specs?
specs.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I've ordered an 18.1 Funk Audio sub from Nathan.
Ya did purdy good. :D

I would have gone with the 18.0 TSAD18v1 (max 2m output 126dB), which I think actually has up to 3dB more output than the LMS5400 above 40Hz (but 2dB less below 30Hz).

 
S

Senact

Audioholic Intern
Ya did purdy good. :D

I would have gone with the 18.0 TSAD18v1 (max 2m output 126dB), which I think actually has up to 3dB more output than the LMS5400 above 40Hz (but 2dB less below 30Hz).
Thanks :D. I love the 18.0 cabinet (looks)

Now for the agonizing wait for 4-6 weeks.
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
This! The 18.1 is a very different sub than a sealed LMS Ultra sub, so that comparison does not hold at all.
I had not seen the 18.1 get on the list yet of course the 18.1 will win at 20hz. He was talking 18.0. Illka uses proper ground plane techniques in his testing so you can trust the numbers. My concern is that port might not have enough airflow if you really push the driver. Ports for 18" subs simply can't be made large enough to eliminate port compression. It's a matter of physics. Of course if you limit the driver with the amp you get the benefits of the extension without risking port compression. I still can't believe these babies are out there. Funk Audio is doing good work for sure.
 
J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
My last attempt to post in this thread. I've tried twice, thanking those who offered advice, but my post said an administrator would have to allow the post and it never happened.
Anyway, I took the plunge and purchased
KEF R900 Loudspeakers
R600c Center
R800 Dipole
R100 Surround
and 2 polk audio subs (PSW505) (Funk audio will have to wait, over budget)
Onkyo tx-nr5010 receiver
Monster 510 power conditioner (I'll be returning this and buying an APC H15BLK as the monster unit had a lot of bad reviews)
Grand view 120" Fixed screen
Pany AE8000 projector + Mount
I managed to squeak in just under my budget of 15k. I should be picking up my order in a week or two, can't wait!. I plan to bi-amp the R900's, can't wait to hear them.


Edit: Woohoo, the post worked!
The long absence, I come back, and there are 5 pages added to the thread already, wow. Not rereading a single word that I typed before here, I wish you followed my recommendation on Seymour, LCOS Projector, identical 3 speakers on the same plane vertically arrayed, or maybe I'm misremembering. I also realize prices are tougher up there. You can try contacting by phone* the AVS store, and particularly ask about any ongoing b-stock or open box deals with JVC. This is a movie theater, and the display is the crown jewel, it's just how it is. You would have gained greater reliability, virtually no fear of dust blobs, class leading black levels without even needing dynamic iris, the highest possible fill ratio, even greater brightness post-calibration with most models, class leading contrast. You could have bought Seymour fabric, if willing to build the frame, for considerably less than the brand you chose.

At a glance, I like P Dawg's advice throughout here. The JTR rec was a good one IMO for what your desires seem to be, and you could probably get extremely loud w/o an outboard amp, with your present choice of speakers, I don't know that they could get there and what they need, I'm just very unfamiliar. Anyway, I understand impatience, I have family members that are much worse than you are for example and I love them all the same, but as for me, shoot I probably did more research on a $600 receiver than you might have done on a 15K theater.

So much talk about subs. Hey, they're cool. I get it. Mine is 5' long and is 280lbs, those are not typos, and I drive it with the Crown amp that was mentioned, but again I like P Dawg's advice, and most especially if at also happens to be the most economical. You would be better off upgrading the display while "settling" for the SVS. My main trepidation with the LMS subs is the power that those things want; efficiency is your friend right now IMO. My sub was only 1K, and it once in a while rattles the drinks so hard in the cupholders, that I sometimes get irritated by it. I like the advice to stay away from outboard pro amp in YOUR case. The EQ is nice even with Audyssey, because I can do the heavy paint strokes pre Audyssey, then use it once again for personal taste post-Audyssey (but let's face it, 3x EQing is PITA). But the amp takes 5 million years to fire up (I believe the computer portion fires up well after the amp section), the display is so freaking bright, that colored electrical tape is still not enough, it must be black tape, there is no dimmer option. The blue power light is 10x worse than the display! On the back wall, it lit up a huge blue rectangle on the screen. That is also covered with black electrical tape. You would need to run XLR-to RCA. I like that it has Speakon connectors. You would need to make sure that "gain staging" is all good within the system too. P Dawg is right, KISS right now. The choice of efficient subs and efficient speakers like JTR means you don't need to worry about so many circuits either (I just run one for the whole rig btw, no problem).

Outside of the impact of the room, which is the #1 concern, as for equipment bought, it is the display that is by far the #1 priority in a dedicated HT. Speakers / subs next.

(to GO-NAD!, yes your situation is fine, I did use the word "directly" for a reason. If you want to see a worst case scenario, check out basspig's thread, lol.)
 
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lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
While I agree the JVC would have been a much better choice. The Panny is not a bad projector either. I would also point out that I prefer my money in the sound system because that's what I'm most sensitive too. At the end of the day this is an excellent setup.
 
S

Senact

Audioholic Intern
Outside of the impact of the room, which is the #1 concern, as for equipment bought, it is the display that is by far the #1 priority in a dedicated HT. Speakers / subs next.

(to GO-NAD!, yes your situation is fine, I did use the word "directly" for a reason. If you want to see a worst case scenario, check out basspig's thread, lol.)
Yes, this thread got active pretty fast :D.

To address some of your points from my POV, while I agree with your comments regarding screen material, LCOS technology etc, I wanted to put more money into the sound system as I feel that has more value long-term then a more expensive projector (within the boundaries of my current budget). I don't like the idea of piecing a system together over many months/years, (I'm already debating not using my system next week until the 18.1 sub arrives in 4-6 weeks). I know that probably sounds weird, but if I spend a lot of money on something, I want it to be as close to perfect as it can be when I first use it. If I wasn't wired that way, I would have held off on the projector and waited till I could afford something better. (I also don't consider the AE8000 to be a poor projector, so I don't feel like I cheaped out on it)

So with that said, I would rather purchase good speakers/sub that will last me 10+years and upgrade my projector a few years from now with what I'm assuming will be even newer technology (4k/8k?). I don't imagine speaker tech will change nearly as much that I would feel the need to upgrade.
 
ParadigmDawg

ParadigmDawg

Audioholic Overlord
The long absence, I come back, and there are 5 pages added to the thread already, wow. Not rereading a single word that I typed before here, I wish you followed my recommendation on Seymour, LCOS Projector, identical 3 speakers on the same plane vertically arrayed, or maybe I'm misremembering. I also realize prices are tougher up there. You can try contacting by phone* the AVS store, and particularly ask about any ongoing b-stock or open box deals with JVC. This is a movie theater, and the display is the crown jewel, it's just how it is. You would have gained greater reliability, virtually no fear of dust blobs, class leading black levels without even needing dynamic iris, the highest possible fill ratio, even greater brightness post-calibration with most models, class leading contrast. You could have bought Seymour fabric, if willing to build the frame, for considerably less than the brand you chose.

At a glance, I like P Dawg's advice throughout here. The JTR rec was a good one IMO for what your desires seem to be, and you could probably get extremely loud w/o an outboard amp, with your present choice of speakers, I don't know that they could get there and what they need, I'm just very unfamiliar. Anyway, I understand impatience, I have family members that are much worse than you are for example and I love them all the same, but as for me, shoot I probably did more research on a $600 receiver than you might have done on a 15K theater.

So much talk about subs. Hey, they're cool. I get it. Mine is 5' long and is 280lbs, those are not typos, and I drive it with the Crown amp that was mentioned, but again I like P Dawg's advice, and most especially if at also happens to be the most economical. You would be better off upgrading the display while "settling" for the SVS. My main trepidation with the LMS subs is the power that those things want; efficiency is your friend right now IMO. My sub was only 1K, and it once in a while rattles the drinks so hard in the cupholders, that I sometimes get irritated by it. I like the advice to stay away from outboard pro amp in YOUR case. The EQ is nice even with Audyssey, because I can do the heavy paint strokes pre Audyssey, then use it once again for personal taste post-Audyssey (but let's face it, 3x EQing is PITA). But the amp takes 5 million years to fire up (I believe the computer portion fires up well after the amp section), the display is so freaking bright, that colored electrical tape is still not enough, it must be black tape, there is no dimmer option. The blue power light is 10x worse than the display! On the back wall, it lit up a huge blue rectangle on the screen. That is also covered with black electrical tape. You would need to run XLR-to RCA. I like that it has Speakon connectors. You would need to make sure that "gain staging" is all good within the system too. P Dawg is right, KISS right now. The choice of efficient subs and efficient speakers like JTR means you don't need to worry about so many circuits either (I just run one for the whole rig btw, no problem).

Outside of the impact of the room, which is the #1 concern, as for equipment bought, it is the display that is by far the #1 priority in a dedicated HT. Speakers / subs next.

(to GO-NAD!, yes your situation is fine, I did use the word "directly" for a reason. If you want to see a worst case scenario, check out basspig's thread, lol.)
Sorry brother, I thought you were drunk and curled up with that rabbit again so I took over...

...want to hear a joke....?

My sub is broken and I must call the builder....

Ring, ring, ring..."this is no longer a working number"...

*****No disrespect to any sub builder or harm was intended to any animal by posting this joke*****
 

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