Integrated amplifier with USB input and subwoofer out?

[highfigh]

One thing about a theater system vs a dedicated music system- the recommended EQ curve for theater systems AND the audio tracks (THX, etc) is different, but a system should be able to work for both, especially if the system allows saving the settings. The system's response is really up to the owner in a private setting, not so for a commercial theater because THX/IMAX certification requires it to meet the specs.

One thing I notice when some TV/movie audio is playing- the extremes of the frequency response are very different from music programming, usually for effect but at times, it seems as if these are boosted for the sake of being boosted.

 

[PENG]

What drive do you use with Foobar?

You meant driver right? I use ASIO as specified by the DAC/media players such as my HA-1, XDuoo, DacMagic XS, Fiio X5 etc.

 

[highfigh]

You meant driver right? I use ASIO as specified by the DAC/media players such as my HA-1, XDuoo, DacMagic XS, Fiio X5 etc.

Aren't you using a NAS?

 

[highfigh]

You have the general idea, but you are wrong in inferring black and white from shades of gray!
I do believe acoustic instruments are generally the best reference material...if you are familiar with them! I once watched Dennis Murphy evaluate a pair of speakers he had never heard before. He listened to a full orchestral chord for about 45 seconds and was done! He plays in an orchestra and yes, I do believe that is helpful for his ability to evaluate a speaker so quickly.
I play in a Big Band, and have great confidence in evaluating the sound of the horns played in my band. There is variety in the sound of these horns, some from the horn brand/model, and others from the performer; however, there are enough commonalities that I feel pretty good about evaluating any acoustic instrument that is in my band. Certainly, it would be better if I was familiar with the exact performer playing the exact instrument I was listening to.
Electric guitar is a different critter. With the special effects boxes. etc. It is very difficult to know how accurately it is being reproduced. I have listened to two good speakers and while the guitar sounded different on both, it sounded very good on both, and I was at a loss to know which was correct. I figured it out listening to the horns I know well.
The reason I am specifying "good" speakers is because crappy speakers reveal themselves by having over-emphasis on a certain frequency ranges. Recordings of electric guitar or synthesizer will reveal this.
So, I am not saying only acoustic sounds evaluated by people familiar with the original sound should ever be used. However, I will agree that that may be the ideal scenario.
Hope this helps!

PS - I definitely believe it would be a mistake not to include acoustic music in your audition music.

I use horns as a reference, too- I played trombone and there's a sound that good recordings & equipment capture, bad ones don't/can't. At that point, we then have to listen to the mic(s) used for the recording. Same for mic'd acoustic guitar, which is another whole category because a Gibson, Martin, Taylor, Guild, etc all sound different. Then, there's the question of "Which transducer did they use, did they mix that sound with a mic, which mic and at what distance? I would love to get the same sound Keb' Mo' got on his album 'Keep It Simple' and the one produced by Scorcese- great, clean, pure acoustic sound, but it doesn't sound like a Gibson acoustic to me, having worked at a music store that was a Gibson dealer and having heard many of them in the years since. That said, I really don't care that it doesn't sound like a Gibson, but I would like to know how they got the sound.

In the 40years I have been involved in music reproduction, I have found that there's no perfect demo music. I have heard some sound amazing with some equipment and terrible with other and some music that sounded great or terrible through anything.

For those who take familiar music with them when they audition equipment- keep an open mind and don't be surprised when the sound you hear is totally different from what you're accustomed to.

 

[PENG]

Aren't you using a NAS?

For backup I used external usb 1TB and 3TB Seagate and WD hard drives but for playback I just use 128GB USB flash drives. In theory non SS hard drives may introduce noise, though I could not tell any audible differences between playing files on them and the little flash drives.

 

[PENG]

In the 40years I have been involved in music reproduction, I have found that there's no perfect demo music. I have heard some sound amazing with some equipment and terrible with other and some music that sounded great or terrible through anything.

I wouldn't use recordings of amplified music though.

 

[highfigh]

I wouldn't use recordings of amplified music though.

What should someone do if that's the music they listen to? Many people don't intentionally listen to acoustic music and, as someone who plays both, I listen to the sound of the amplifiers as well as the music, instruments, effects, etc. When I hear music that was recorded so well it sounds like I'm in the same room, it's impressive. I don't want to hear something that sounds "kind of like" anything- guitar amp mic'ing and recording has been done for so long that many of the better engineers can get a great sound in their sleep. When I hear a Strat through a Tweed Bassman and it sounds like MY Strat through MY Tweed Bassman, it's exciting.

 

[jetsetter439]

Hey guys,

OP here. I'm about ready to move forward with some purchases here, but just wanted to see if there were any last minute recommendations (with a same or similar feature set) in lieu of the NAD C-316BEE that I am leaning toward. I've heard good things about this particular unit but curious if there is anything much "better" for around the same price point. I appreciate your guys' input so far!

 

[markw]

So, can we assume that you've taken the USB input out of the equation and are now looking at plain vanilla integrated amps?

 

[jetsetter439]

Hi Mark,

I'll be connecting via USB (from my computer) to an external DAC (Schiit Bifrost) and then to amplifier.

 

[markw]

I see you've dropped the requirement for the subwoofer output as well.

Good move. Most subs have a speaker level inputs and many have outputs as well, although the latter are not mandatory for good sound.

Many have like level inputs as well, but they would be useless for this amp.

 

[jetsetter439]

Yeah if I am not mistaken I can connect the sub via Pre-amp out, is that correct?

In any event, I just realized that the NAD C 316BEE does not actually have a pre-amp out. Is there another way to connect a sub here? Or should I just continue to look for other amps with tone controls and pre-amp out?

 

[markw]

Yeah if I am not mistaken I can connect the sub via Pre-amp out, is that correct?

In any event, I just realized that the NAD C 316BEE does not actually have a pre-amp out. Is there another way to connect a sub here? Or should I just continue to look for other amps with tone controls and pre-amp out?

You can use speaker level inputs on the sub. Use it's level and crossover controls to blend it with your mains, just like you would do if you used it's line level inputs. Don't worry. The sound won't suck.

 

[KEW]

You can use speaker level inputs on the sub.

Make sure the sub you get has high level inputs (Speaker cable connections). This is a feature that is not so common as it used to be!

 

[KEW]

What should someone do if that's the music they listen to? Many people don't intentionally listen to acoustic music and, as someone who plays both, I listen to the sound of the amplifiers as well as the music, instruments, effects, etc. When I hear music that was recorded so well it sounds like I'm in the same room, it's impressive. I don't want to hear something that sounds "kind of like" anything- guitar amp mic'ing and recording has been done for so long that many of the better engineers can get a great sound in their sleep. When I hear a Strat through a Tweed Bassman and it sounds like MY Strat through MY Tweed Bassman, it's exciting.

Obviously, if you are that familiar with the details of the instrument used, you are gold!
Then, there are always vocals which are often the most revealing. Problem is vocals rarely have really high upper harmonics, so they don't cover the full range the way an orchestra (or even just a trombone) will.

 

[markw]

Make sure the sub you get has high level inputs (Speaker cable connections). This is a feature that is not so common as it used to be!

Good point. Shop wisely. Also, when looking at the sub's line level inputs, make sure it's got both right and left. Many cheap out and only have one LFE input, like my cheapo BIC F12.

 

[jetsetter439]

Hi guys.. pardon my ignorance.. again. But when you refer to speaker level inputs on the sub, how do these go about connecting from the amplifier? For the NAD only has outputs for a left and right speaker, nor do I think the Paradigm Millenia Ones have the means to output anything to a sub. There seems to be a disconnect here which I'm not quite grasping. Sorry!

 

[markw]

You simply connect them in parallel with your main speakers. They present a very high impedance to the amp so it's virtually invisible to the amp.

Some subs have speaker outputs on them and then you can connect the sub to your amp, and then your speakers to the sub.

Some subs will filter out the lows from your mains if you do this. If you don't want that, then you would do what I said in my first sentence.

This link will show you a generic sub amp like you will find on many subs.

http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-sa100-100w-subwoofer-plate-amplifier--300-802?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=pla

 

[markw]

Now that your requirements have changed, there is a plethora of options open to you.

Here's some. Not a loser in the bunch. Some are refurbs, but this is a reliable vendor. Many of us, including myself, have used them.

http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/category/integratedamp/home-audio/receivers-amps/integrated-amps/1.html

 

[jetsetter439]

Oh wow, so you're referring to literally combining the sub wire with the speaker wire and running it to the respective speaker units.

I had no idea that a speaker level connection could accommodate more than one connection out of the amp. I had thought only a pre-amp out or dedicated subwoofer out could accommodate the sub.

In any event, this is the sub I am looking at, or something very close to it: http://www.svsound.com/subwoofers/sealed-box/sb-1000?gclid=CMjd05XWq8YCFZKBaQodGswC6A