DO NOT BUY anything from AV123

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bwilson

Audiophyte
Two days ago I stumbled accross AV123 in my search for new speakers and today I was going to order the 850's. I just spent the last two hours reading about all the issues and must ask what is probably a very stupied question:

Should I keep looking?
 
droht

droht

Full Audioholic
Two days ago I stumbled accross AV123 in my search for new speakers and today I was going to order the 850's. I just spent the last two hours reading about all the issues and must ask what is probably a very stupied question:

Should I keep looking?
It is your decision to make. My only counsel is to consider everything when you make that decision.
 
Z

zvardanian

Audioholic Intern
What he said.

I think the Rockets are fairly established so the quality isn't as splotchy, but you never know.

Aperion, SVS, Ascend, Axiom are good choices that come to mind. The Aperion Intimus 6T might be comparable to a Rocket in terms of sonic characteristics.
 
J

JoshK

Junior Audioholic
Two days ago I stumbled accross AV123 in my search for new speakers and today I was going to order the 850's. I just spent the last two hours reading about all the issues and must ask what is probably a very stupied question:

Should I keep looking?
Are you a gambling man?
 
C

Chu Gai

Audioholic Samurai
Two days ago I stumbled accross AV123 in my search for new speakers and today I was going to order the 850's. I just spent the last two hours reading about all the issues and must ask what is probably a very stupied question:

Should I keep looking?
I've been a very vocal critic of the organization from the point of ethics as well as quality issues. However, it's not my intent to dissuade you from buying so much as informing you or anyone of the issues. It's up to you to make the informed decision on what you want to do. So, here we go.

The company has a myriad of issues. Depending where in this very long thread you've read, you may've gotten a good idea of what they are. In terms of their current speaker lineup, which isn't terribly broad anymore, the Rockets represent what is probably their best current offering in terms of quality and reliability. However, there have been a few issues which may or may not apply to what you buy but they have been reported.

Veneer is generally decent enough but some have noted imperfections that are most easily discerned by either looking up close or by running one's hand across the wood.

They seem to have switched to somewhat less expensive binding posts and I've read where a user found they were loose. Nothing you can't take care of.

The drivers appear competent but a few have noted 'rings' appearing in the middle. This is a sporadic defect but VA321 has made good on every report that I know of. It's something you'll have to change but nothing difficult.

Now, if you're looking to put together a complete HT system, you'll find that they're currently out of stock on their center channel. Based upon VA321's track record, I'd only buy the 850's for a 2 channel setup. That's because you cannot tell when and more importantly if they'll ever come back in stock.

You should confirm by email or phone, preferably both, that what you're buying is A-stock and is in stock along with a shipment date. Keep close track of that and make sure your card is not charged until the speaker(s) ship.

There are of course alternatives which may prove equally attractive. For example there are offering from TheAudioInsider that also sells some B-stock through another place (Oz something or other). They are quite reputable with negligible product issues and a reasonable following. I've heard that Jon Lane is a pleasant enough and competent enough person to talk with. The same holds true for offerings from Ascend Acoustics but they don't make a floor stander that I know of. This site also has a store that sells a competent budget line by EMP as well as others. Pricing is quite good. There are of course others in the Internet Direct area.

Now AV123 does have a warranty. The question given their issues, is will they be around a year or two from now to honor it?

Best of luck to you.
 
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bwilson

Audiophyte
Thanks to all for keeping this thread alive, I was convinced I found the right speaker (Rocket 850) and was ready to take the plunge. I'm shocked at myself on how easy it is for a buyer (me) to try and justify the negative, even as it stares you right in the face. Why? becuase I wanted to think I found the impossilbe deal. (beautiful cabinet, highly reviewed, impossible price) Even as I type this I'm looking for ways to justify the negative. I'm an example as to why AV123 has been able to continue their bad practice. People tend to hear what they want to hear! Please continue getting the word out and force AV123, or any other bad company to clean up their business or slip away.

Bye-bye AV123, i doubt you'll climb your way out of this one!
 
C

Chu Gai

Audioholic Samurai
At this point in time, I look at VA321 as being akin to junk bonds. They're comparatively inexpensive (compared to former inflated prices), have the potential to yield tangible benefits, and are also high risk. That's going to attract a segment of the population whether it's speakers or investors. Reviews need to be looked at in context whether they're from publications or owners as well as the time frame they occurred. The speaker that was reviewed back in say '07 is not necessarily exactly the same one made today especially if the factory they were made in is no longer the same. And further, what person is not going to be impressed at scoring an MFW for $400 when they've come from computer speakers, an HTIB, or for that matter an inexpensive 8" or 10" sub?

Certainly there are those who quite enjoy their products and who have essentially no issues. Then there are those who have had nothing but problems. The thing is you ought not to look solely at one at the expense of another. You need to step back and get an overview of the bigger picture and weigh what you read accordingly. Only you can tell if you feel lucky, punk. To give you an idea how persuasive MLS can be, give the place a call and see if he picks up and ask him to comment on what you're considering purchasing.
 
T

thenatinator

Junior Audioholic
Inventory

I've been watching this tread for a while. I actually bought used AV123 equipment from a member in early 2009 for a steal. This poor guy told me about his horror story with mls. He's posted on this thread and has said his issues were resolved. I truly hope they were. At the time I didn't believe what I heard, now I'm tempted to sell my used av321 equipment because it feels dirty.

It's interesting to see how many items you can add to your cart on their site.
For instance their P.O.S. website( err Point of Sale ;) )will only let me place 23 rockets into my cart and 14 bstock mfws. I wonder how closely this reflects their inventory. If it's any indication they are either liquidating or restocking. Could be interesting to see if these numbers shift based on schifter's posts about deliveries and sales figures.
 
C

Chu Gai

Audioholic Samurai
I've been watching this tread for a while. I actually bought used AV123 equipment from a member in early 2009 for a steal. This poor guy told me about his horror story with mls. He's posted on this thread and has said his issues were resolved. I truly hope they were. At the time I didn't believe what I heard, now I'm tempted to sell my used av321 equipment because it feels dirty.

It's interesting to see how many items you can add to your cart on their site.
For instance their P.O.S. website( err Point of Sale ;) )will only let me place 23 rockets into my cart and 14 bstock mfws. I wonder how closely this reflects their inventory. If it's any indication they are either liquidating or restocking. Could be interesting to see if these numbers shift based on schifter's posts about deliveries and sales figures.
My guess, and that's all it is, is that it's probably a reasonable estimate of what's in the warehouse. Given their past and present difficulties, inventory levels have to drop pretty low before they're able to amass the cash needed to reorder.
 
haraldo

haraldo

Audioholic Spartan
Thanks to all for keeping this thread alive, I was convinced I found the right speaker (Rocket 850) and was ready to take the plunge. I'm shocked at myself on how easy it is for a buyer (me) to try and justify the negative, even as it stares you right in the face. Why? becuase I wanted to think I found the impossilbe deal. (beautiful cabinet, highly reviewed, impossible price) Even as I type this I'm looking for ways to justify the negative. I'm an example as to why AV123 has been able to continue their bad practice. People tend to hear what they want to hear! Please continue getting the word out and force AV123, or any other bad company to clean up their business or slip away.

Bye-bye AV123, i doubt you'll climb your way out of this one!
If it looks too good to be true, it most likely is :p
 
C

Chu Gai

Audioholic Samurai
Hey, Shifty!!! Where's the MFW-15 manual? It was 99% done you said. That estate settled yet so you can finally start paying up? You're facing some tough decisions there. Do you make good on the refunds and products? Do you pay off your former business partners? Relatives including The General? All those raffle recipients? I'm surprised you didn't hold a raffle or fundraiser where people could get store credit for some of the recent disasters. You're slipping! Got any more product coming from your 'brother'?
 
C

Chu Gai

Audioholic Samurai
Found this interesting. http://forums.av123.com/showpost.php?p=752916&postcount=39 Didn't they already have a sealed 12" sub called the UFW-12? Why not just make a UFW that works instead of a brand new sealed 12" sub. Makes perfect sense to me.
Sure, who is going to make it for him? Won't be his current suppliers because he's delinquent in his payments. Just think, people will be able to look forward to more amp problems, wood chips spitting out of the port or getting lodged in the driver. What fun! Another great story from the Shifty one.

Pay up Mark!!! And none of them Shifty-bucks.
 
C

Chu Gai

Audioholic Samurai
It's time for a contest

Yes, a contest. Not a raffle. A contest and here it is. To the first person who is owed $1000 or more and actually gets their money back either because Shifty sent it or because they sued and collected, I will send them a custom made magnetic bumper sticker that says, I got my money back from Shifty!. Not only that, but I'll personally autograph it! Now unfortunately, I've got to have some restrictions but they're pretty simple. No family members or current employees are eligible. That's pretty simple don't you think?

So, as of this posting (nothing prior counts) if you got $1000 or more out of the humbly bumbly one and you're the first to post here with some proof, you've got yourself a one of a kind bumper sticker. Place it on your fridge, your car, the metal plate in your skull if you've got one of those or just frame it. It's sure to be a conversation opener. So come on folks, if you haven't gotten your money yet, you know how to reach him. Keep at it!
 
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Chu Gai

Audioholic Samurai
Well you know hype doesn't work unless there's a new product along with pictures of test drivers that just might make the grade that were shot somewhere other than Longmont. And folks dig the idea of a kilowatt amp. If only he had the money to pull it off but then if he had the money to pull it off ought not some of it be going to retire existing obligations?
 
C

Chu Gai

Audioholic Samurai
In this thread which raises the question of who won the prize for the best Rocket review, the poster, veritasmania, makes the following comment:

Yeah, the review thing not coming to fruition makes you feel deceived, but stuff like underfunded raffles and people not receiving their speakers for years is not an issue I guess?

Come on people, open your eyes a little bit.
Will it survive?
 
C

Chu Gai

Audioholic Samurai
Well, folks are talking about a new sub and if they buy that, they're not likely to go out and buy another one. So, he floats the 'we've got something in the works and here's some pictures' defense. And now you'll see people waiting. Maybe they won't buy the Epik and if they were thinking about the Seaton upgrade, they'll think some more. You can already read a little chatter about this. How long has that been talked about by Shifty? A year I'd think.
 
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C

Chu Gai

Audioholic Samurai
Seems in that same link, the drivers for the subs have been outed as coming from Pierce Audio. Nice job Bose301s. Hopefully, he'll post here too ;)
 
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