mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
If testing daily when no symptoms are present at the white house is good for them, how about the rest of us? Are we just cast away collateral damage(cannon fodder) so some others can feel safe?
Perhaps when we all can get tested routinely until a vaccine is available is reasonable?
 
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JerryLove

JerryLove

Audioholic Samurai
I could go on and on what did you do to help out with these problems ?
Vote and publicly advocate for a systemic response to address the underlying causes rather than deal with a couple manually while advocating policies that will cause suffering to millions and patting myself on the back.

You should try it

What's your solution then?
For which issue?

For COVID-19. Let's listen to the experts on it. The WHO, The CDC, etc. (the ones that are advocating the stuff you oppose).

For food supply? For one thing, protect the food workers by flattening the curve.

For another, get someone like FEMA involved in adjusting the supply chains. Farmers have been plowing under fields an dumping food because supply chains setup for resturaunts and schools couldn't adjust quickly to a change in consumption patterns.

Suicides? Up support. Do outreach. Remove handguns from the home. Pass universal healthcare and minimum income so that people can survive losing their job.

You want the whole list?

What would you do because from everything you've said were going to have those problems anyway with COVID no matter what you either pay for it now or later if you pay for it layer then you add every thing on top of what's already a tragic situation
I moved to the city and now I can't grow food on my own land. I guess city living is impossible.

You act like there's only one option.

You like to break everybody down but I've yet to hear you offer a solution
You wine like a mule and you clearly haven't been paying attention.

Progressive taxation.
Universal income.
Universal healthcare.
Universal mental health care
A government capable and prepared to actually respond to an emergency.
Strategic reserves
Investment in infrastructure.

The list goes on and on.

And once again if it's just lock up until a vaccine arrives like I mentioned to someone else we might as well not waste each others time going back and forth
Only in your strawman charaicature.

But if you literally are going to exclude anything, no matter how effective, that includes what the medical experts recommend; then you are right, there's no use going back and forth.

But there's plenty of use on me "breaking your post down" and calling you out on your false dilemmas and other general BS.

Seems to me people are going to die from this no matter how hard you try until a vaccine arrives sometimes you just have to suck it up no matter how hard it is
And its established fact that we can affect how many die by what we do.

My friend at work lost his mother to this my best friend who had a stroke came down with it in his nursing home I'll probably get it before too long
That sucks.

Thanks to things like the lockdown you are complaining about, there will likely be a hospital bed should you need one.

You are welcome.

Because extended lockdowns will collapse medical systems and your worst case scenarious will happeb with the virus plus everything else on top
Do you simply disbelieve history is a thing that exists? Or do you just assume no one else will look.

And by the way chemo and other treatments are being delayed my sister works with a group down by Vegas shes in upper management a lot of neccessary electives are being delayed it'll get worse the more the medical system gets bankrupt
I assume you support the progressive democrats, since chemo gets delayed for lack of funding without universal healthcare and you care about this?

I have no clue who your sister is and don't care. There's nothing in any lockdown I've seen, nor any I am supporting, that would not consider chemotherepy "discretionary", except in the cases where it is (some maintainence chemos are certainly delayable without issue).

Since I've seen people with my own eyes getting chemo during lock-down (the place I take my daughter includes chemotherepy); I see your random claim and call it a straw-man.
 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Spartan
Vote and publicly advocate for a systemic response to address the underlying causes rather than deal with a couple manually while advocating policies that will cause suffering to millions and patting myself on the back.

You should try it


For which issue?

For COVID-19. Let's listen to the experts on it. The WHO, The CDC, etc. (the ones that are advocating the stuff you oppose).

For food supply? For one thing, protect the food workers by flattening the curve.

For another, get someone like FEMA involved in adjusting the supply chains. Farmers have been plowing under fields an dumping food because supply chains setup for resturaunts and schools couldn't adjust quickly to a change in consumption patterns.

Suicides? Up support. Do outreach. Remove handguns from the home. Pass universal healthcare and minimum income so that people can survive losing their job.

You want the whole list?


I moved to the city and now I can't grow food on my own land. I guess city living is impossible.

You act like there's only one option.


You wine like a mule and you clearly haven't been paying attention.

Progressive taxation.
Universal income.
Universal healthcare.
Universal mental health care
A government capable and prepared to actually respond to an emergency.
Strategic reserves
Investment in infrastructure.

The list goes on and on.


Only in your strawman charaicature.

But if you literally are going to exclude anything, no matter how effective, that includes what the medical experts recommend; then you are right, there's no use going back and forth.

But there's plenty of use on me "breaking your post down" and calling you out on your false dilemmas and other general BS.


And its established fact that we can affect how many die by what we do.


That sucks.

Thanks to things like the lockdown you are complaining about, there will likely be a hospital bed should you need one.

You are welcome.


Do you simply disbelieve history is a thing that exists? Or do you just assume no one else will look.


I assume you support the progressive democrats, since chemo gets delayed for lack of funding without universal healthcare and you care about this?

I have no clue who your sister is and don't care. There's nothing in any lockdown I've seen, nor any I am supporting, that would not consider chemotherepy "discretionary", except in the cases where it is (some maintainence chemos are certainly delayable without issue).

Since I've seen people with my own eyes getting chemo during lock-down (the place I take my daughter includes chemotherepy); I see your random claim and call it a straw-man.
Damn Jerry you sound a little salty there bro.

Especially when you spoke a out my sister like that?

Did I strike a nerve?

my niece who just had a horrible stroke few years back couldn't get her electives in and she desperately needs them

And I couldn't give a sh@$! What you think about my sister Id take her word over anything ANYTHING before I'd ever listen to you

As far as supporting some of the choices you do I do those maybe you should try getting on the front lines and getting your hands dirty

See what's it really like for those getting through it

Rather then patting urself on your pompous back

And as far as advocating ideas that will kill millions that's what your asking me to do and so is the WHO CDC and others stick our head in the Sand hope that we can last till a vaccine and really it's to bad about everyone else

Can't get behind that

Theres a difference between book smart and street smart

It's doomed to fail

TOO bad all the intellectuals can't see that

But go ahead and stick your head in the sand

Because when the money runs out pretty soon and it WILL and 30 million unemployed and rising start escalating things it won't matter anyway

You won't be able to stick your head in the sand anymore you'll be forced to deal with it then

Like I said we can go round and round about this well just waste each other's time

Well see in 6 months whose right and whose wrong

There is one catch I think your all right about COVID I do think it's worse then the flu

I still think your going to have to LIVE with it science can do AMAZING things but in this situation? This is one of those tough sh@$! Moments in life. Happens all the time

But let's just catch back up in 6 months well see where were at

I won't stay quiet when I feel you guys are WRONG

But I can respect the fact that you guys think I'm WRONG too

Someone once told me if you stand for nothing you'll fall for anything

So we'll each just have to make our stands only time will tell whose wrong or right

Peace
 
JerryLove

JerryLove

Audioholic Samurai
Did I strike a nerve?
Yep. About 2 pages ago when you advocated the death and suffering of millions because you think it will help the economy.

Theres a difference between book smart and street smart
There's also a difference between actual knowledge and what you are spouting. Though honestly, your posts are becoming more and more disjointed.

There's a real danger when people have just enough knowledge to think they know far more than they do.

When that's related to actual accumulation of knowledge, we are discussing the Dunning-Kruger effect; but since your posts are not, this seems more like the "stable genius" effect. I'm sure you know more than the generals, and all the experts are constantly surprised that you know so much and compliment you on it... you know, except for the stupid ones and the ones part of the conspiracy.

Not social distancing kills people. Not just the people who die directly from SARS-COV-2 either.
Not social distancing will not suddenly restore the economy; and not having ever social distanced would not prevent collapse when everyone gets sick.

Many of the issues could be addressed by a government more concerned with helping its populus than its TV ratings and purity/loyalty test results.

Sadly, the internet give a megaphone to people, like you, spouting ideas with no basis in reality; and humanity has always been willing, especially under stress, to blame demons, a conspiracy to say the Earth is round, vaccines, and the usual round of anti-intellectualism like you are espousing here.

Someone once told me if you stand for nothing you'll fall for anything
Ironically, you fell for a slogan.
 
M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic Samurai
Is it too much to ask for some of you guys that keep making these type of statements to give me hard scientific data

So I can truly know what my risks are and calculate what type of risks I'm willing to take ?
With all due respect, I think you're looking for a level of certainty that simply does not exist. This is a new virus, and it will take time to understand it.

As much as Talub annoys me, he does have some insights I agree with:


Of course, you are free to decide that you think he's full of it.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
@Danzilla31 , I really believe the uncertainty of this, being a new virus ... compounded by the politicization of it, including suppression of information from experts leave everyone feeling very insecure.

Let me give you a specific example from here in Georgia ... which is the reason for this post - I am hoping someone may have some knowledge/ideas on this!

Maybe 5 weeks ago CVS sponsored testing being performed at a Ga Tech parking garage abandoned when the students went home was an easy choice - owned by the state and provides a sheltered, but well ventilated drive through venue!
This facility is setup to perform 1,000 tests a day. The test performed here is one that yields results in 15 minutes, but its weakness is it can yield false positives (not sure what the rate is).

About 2 weeks ago, a second location started testing in a parking garage at KSU (a university located around 25 up I-75 from Ga Tech). This test is more accurate, but it takes 3 to 5 days to get results.

I like this arrangement and assume the idea is you take the quick test first and if you are clear you are clear! If you test positive, then you would immediately go to KSU for that test and you would need to quarantine for the 3 to 5 days until you get results to determine if you can end quarantine or not.

The problem is that the Ga Tech test is going to be discontinued at the end of May! Which begs the question of WHY?! It is not like we have an abundance of testing exceeding the demand. If there is a formal announcement with explanation, I have not seen it! As far as I understand, the number of cases reported in the US is more a reflection of the number of tests performed than anything else!

In normal times, this would not be very alarming because I would expect the experts are running the show in a intelligent manner (making the best decisions that could be made given the information available). However, in our current climate, I am left wondering what is behind this. Possibilities I have thought of include:

1) CVS is running out of money for this ... but wouldn't the state or fed pick it up?
2) It is a tentative plan, subject to change if the case rate is not reduced by the end of the month.
3) Governor Kemp made national news for being "last in, first out" of shelter at home, if he can reduce the number of tests, the official number of new cases (after reopening the state) will go down and he will look good reopening the economy. If there is actually a spike in cases (that is not measured due to lack of testing), the longer term consequences could be devastating.
4) I saw where CVS was going to have swab testing performed in their stores in New Jersey. Perhaps that is their plan in Georgia as well?
5) I have read that the reagents used for the test will become a practical limit for the amount of testing that is needed. Have we reached that point for this particular test?

So there are five reasonable explanations (I don't consider that a complete list by any means). But to Danzilla's point about stress/anxiety, you can see that they carry a full range of uncertainty - from absolutely no need for concern (option 4), to unfortunate reality (option 5), to insidious (option 3)!

At the national level, we have a president who is much more concerned about the ratings of his briefing and hogging the microphone with loony cures while experts barely get a chance to speak to us. CDC recommendations for reopening the economy have been given a gag order!

I happened to be in the car when Clark Howard came on the radio and when he finished I was almost in a state of shock with how cathodic it was to listen to someone providing clean and factual information/advice relating to (financial aspects of) the virus without any motive other than to simply be helpful! Go to the middle or download the podcast and listen to an expert talking within his field.
Clark Howard Podcast 5/12/20

I have to credit Noam Chomsky for my understanding of this, but Trump is saying everything about the virus from it is nothing to it is essentially a war, with his objective of there being sound-bites that Fox can play to show how wise he was. Of course CNN will show the sound-bites that make him look like a fool. The end result is (given their contradictory points of reference) the CNN folk hate him and think Trump supporters are total mindless sheep, and the people watching Fox totally buy into Trump's narrative about fake news, because they saw Trump accurately predict and address the situation ... and unless you watch enough to see both types of sound-bites, you would not expect that there is a sound-bite of Trump saying the exact opposite (sometimes later in the same speech)!

So I believe it is this type of inconsistency that really heightens the anxiety levels above the high level you would already expect from a pandemic. While as Mr. Cark pointed out the new is pretty factual, you can find plenty of opinion pieces that suggest about anything, and that is on steroids since we have leadership providing space for about any theory you can think of to thrive!
 
JerryLove

JerryLove

Audioholic Samurai
I have to credit Noam Chomsky for my understanding of this, but Trump is saying everything about the virus from it is nothing to it is essentially a war, with his objective of there being sound-bites that Fox can play to show how wise he was. Of course CNN will show the sound-bites that make him look like a fool. The end result is (given their contradictory points of reference) the CNN folk hate him and think Trump supporters are total mindless sheep, and the people watching Fox totally buy into Trump's narrative about fake news, because they saw Trump accurately predict and address the situation ... and unless you watch enough to see both types of sound-bites, you would not expect that there is a sound-bite of Trump saying the exact opposite (sometimes later in the same speech)!
CNN actually covers both the inconsistencies and the falsehoods IME.

As pointed out, Trump was not wise (at least not in terms of Coronavirus, he may well be wise, or at least have a base cunning, in regards to the instinct to say everything so the followers can pick the parts that make you look good later). This would make FOX's conclusion wrong and CNNs conclusion correct.

Let's be fair: his rambling junkets can last hours. You have to distill. The one that distills to the correct essence is the one that distills correctly. "Stable genius giving prescient knowledge" is not the correct essence.
 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Spartan
Yep. About 2 pages ago when you advocated the death and suffering of millions because you think it will help the economy.


There's also a difference between actual knowledge and what you are spouting. Though honestly, your posts are becoming more and more disjointed.

There's a real danger when people have just enough knowledge to think they know far more than they do.

When that's related to actual accumulation of knowledge, we are discussing the Dunning-Kruger effect; but since your posts are not, this seems more like the "stable genius" effect. I'm sure you know more than the generals, and all the experts are constantly surprised that you know so much and compliment you on it... you know, except for the stupid ones and the ones part of the conspiracy.

Not social distancing kills people. Not just the people who die directly from SARS-COV-2 either.
Not social distancing will not suddenly restore the economy; and not having ever social distanced would not prevent collapse when everyone gets sick.

Many of the issues could be addressed by a government more concerned with helping its populus than its TV ratings and purity/loyalty test results.

Sadly, the internet give a megaphone to people, like you, spouting ideas with no basis in reality; and humanity has always been willing, especially under stress, to blame demons, a conspiracy to say the Earth is round, vaccines, and the usual round of anti-intellectualism like you are espousing here.

Ironically, you fell for a slogan.
Damn Jer Bear you just like to keep it going don't you?

This is the last thing I'm gonna post to you because your not worth the time

I know why your really salty and it's not from what I posted its from what your going through and for that I'm truly sorry but out of respect since I don't do the name calling or come at people with that pompous attitude you like to bring I won't bring it up some people have limits

But as for your post are you INSANE? I LOOOOVE your vision of the world universal healthcare: for assistance for people financially hurting: this increased supervision for suicides: take away guns

It SOUNDS GREAT! There's just one problem where are you going to PAY for it genius?

The Feds have loaned out how many trillion we lost how much trillion last month alone of income you have to have income for that to happen and well we froze EVERYTHING.

To slow the spread Which worked to the point that I know nurses that are now on corona pay and getting furloughed because well there hospitals are going under the lockdown had its purpose and it did it's job very very well by the way doctors as well getting furloughed and not for superficial stuff either I work medical and we have close relationships with the ones we contract to send our psych patients out to

The bailout money's helping but it won't be there forever

So with no TAXES and people poor as hell were are the state's going to get the ability to do this? But GREAT IDEA GENIUS bravo. Good for you go make it happen!

And take away guns in America with a depression looming and increased crime and poverty coming? You think people are going to let the government get there hands on there guns in a time like this?

I'll say it one more time and I'm sorry to say it I hate this I really do A total lockdown to eradicate the virus or to buy us time for a vaccine is unrealistic it's to far spread and by the way from the newest reports on antibody testing it's got a LONG LONG way to go.

People are just going to have to accept theres going to be blood in the waters no matter which side you go hopefully we can pick a course that costs the least amount of blood to our vulnerable suffering from COVID and our vulnerable we forced into by locking down the economy

That is if people have the stomach for it.

See that's what I'll support is a balanced approuch that weighs in on both sides.

But what science and you advocate is not balanced its not realistic and ultimately it's commiting suicide an indefinete lockdown

Fight the disease and just not take into account anything else?

Hey maybe my posts are disjointed but at least there in the land of reality. And at least I don't disparage people that don't describe to my view of it

Honestly no disrespect to you as a person but as far as posting between us just get the f@$! Out of here with your bullshit like you said in your last post we are DONE talking.

Keep it that way Jer Bear
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
I think Danzilla has a good point about this virus putting this country between a rock and a hard place. The more activity that is taken to bolster the economy, the worse the virus will affect the country as a whole. However, ignoring socioeconomic ramifications of shutting down so much of society is going to cause a lot of death and suffering as well. There is no easy answer.

One problem is that the USA is so hung up on capitalism that is is inconceivable for the government to simply take care of the people during a crisis. Real leadership would really help out about now, but we just do not have that, except at state levels in certain states. A couple things that would help out: universal basic income, laws against eviction during a crisis, incentives and hazard pay for essential workers along with proper protective gear and training. Except the federal government just undertook huge spending bills in the bailouts, and it looks like a big chunk of that money has already been embezzled away. Thanks Republicans.

I will say this, for awhile the one thing that Trump had going for him compared to George W Bush is that Trump didn't do anything immediately catastrophic like invade Iraq. For all of Trump's screw-ups, they were mostly matters of ethics and corruption, and the catastrophes that he was setting the stage for were long-term matters like ignoring climate change. But wow he has screwed the pooch bigtime with the way he has handled this pandemic. There is no coherent federal plan outside of guidelines set out by the CDC, and even those are being politicized. There is just no strategy or long-term plan. This is what happens when the president has the attention span of a gerbil. And if anything this lack of strategy shaping up to be a much bigger disaster for the USA than the W's war in Iraq. Some people have argued in the past that the president was more of a figurehead, but hopefully this cataclysm has put that notion to rest.

If I were a strongly patriotic person, I would be absolutely devastated to see what is occurring in the USA at the moment.
 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Spartan
@Danzilla31 , I really believe the uncertainty of this, being a new virus ... compounded by the politicization of it, including suppression of information from experts leave everyone feeling very insecure.

Let me give you a specific example from here in Georgia ... which is the reason for this post - I am hoping someone may have some knowledge/ideas on this!

Maybe 5 weeks ago CVS sponsored testing being performed at a Ga Tech parking garage abandoned when the students went home was an easy choice - owned by the state and provides a sheltered, but well ventilated drive through venue!
This facility is setup to perform 1,000 tests a day. The test performed here is one that yields results in 15 minutes, but its weakness is it can yield false positives (not sure what the rate is).

About 2 weeks ago, a second location started testing in a parking garage at KSU (a university located around 25 up I-75 from Ga Tech). This test is more accurate, but it takes 3 to 5 days to get results.

I like this arrangement and assume the idea is you take the quick test first and if you are clear you are clear! If you test positive, then you would immediately go to KSU for that test and you would need to quarantine for the 3 to 5 days until you get results to determine if you can end quarantine or not.

The problem is that the Ga Tech test is going to be discontinued at the end of May! Which begs the question of WHY?! It is not like we have an abundance of testing exceeding the demand. If there is a formal announcement with explanation, I have not seen it! As far as I understand, the number of cases reported in the US is more a reflection of the number of tests performed than anything else!

In normal times, this would not be very alarming because I would expect the experts are running the show in a intelligent manner (making the best decisions that could be made given the information available). However, in our current climate, I am left wondering what is behind this. Possibilities I have thought of include:

1) CVS is running out of money for this ... but wouldn't the state or fed pick it up?
2) It is a tentative plan, subject to change if the case rate is not reduced by the end of the month.
3) Governor Kemp made national news for being "last in, first out" of shelter at home, if he can reduce the number of tests, the official number of new cases (after reopening the state) will go down and he will look good reopening the economy. If there is actually a spike in cases (that is not measured due to lack of testing), the longer term consequences could be devastating.
4) I saw where CVS was going to have swab testing performed in their stores in New Jersey. Perhaps that is their plan in Georgia as well?
5) I have read that the reagents used for the test will become a practical limit for the amount of testing that is needed. Have we reached that point for this particular test?

So there are five reasonable explanations (I don't consider that a complete list by any means). But to Danzilla's point about stress/anxiety, you can see that they carry a full range of uncertainty - from absolutely no need for concern (option 4), to unfortunate reality (option 5), to insidious (option 3)!

At the national level, we have a president who is much more concerned about the ratings of his briefing and hogging the microphone with loony cures while experts barely get a chance to speak to us. CDC recommendations for reopening the economy have been given a gag order!

I happened to be in the car when Clark Howard came on the radio and when he finished I was almost in a state of shock with how cathodic it was to listen to someone providing clean and factual information/advice relating to (financial aspects of) the virus without any motive other than to simply be helpful! Go to the middle or download the podcast and listen to an expert talking within his field.
Clark Howard Podcast 5/12/20

I have to credit Noam Chomsky for my understanding of this, but Trump is saying everything about the virus from it is nothing to it is essentially a war, with his objective of there being sound-bites that Fox can play to show how wise he was. Of course CNN will show the sound-bites that make him look like a fool. The end result is (given their contradictory points of reference) the CNN folk hate him and think Trump supporters are total mindless sheep, and the people watching Fox totally buy into Trump's narrative about fake news, because they saw Trump accurately predict and address the situation ... and unless you watch enough to see both types of sound-bites, you would not expect that there is a sound-bite of Trump saying the exact opposite (sometimes later in the same speech)!

So I believe it is this type of inconsistency that really heightens the anxiety levels above the high level you would already expect from a pandemic. While as Mr. Cark pointed out the new is pretty factual, you can find plenty of opinion pieces that suggest about anything, and that is on steroids since we have leadership providing space for about any theory you can think of to thrive!
Yeah you make a really good point about the issues with leadership there s no getting around that

And thank you MR Clark for giving me some more info to look at I'll check into those links just got off work so I'll look at them tonight

Look I'm going to stay out of this thread man I'll pop into learn from some of you but my minds made up on some things and others minds are made up on there things

I don't want our clashing heads to derail the thread

But I will check in to try to learn some more especially about the science

And I'll definetly put a thank you to those who put out helpful stuff whether I agree with it or not

Some people just want to come at you with a certain tone or think they can talk to you a certain way easy to do so on a keyboard I guess and man I'm just not that dude to sit back and put up with it

And I don't want my stubbornness on this to derail or detract from the rest of you guys

So I apologize to the thread and the forum for that and will respectfully bow out.
 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Spartan
I think Danzilla has a good point about this virus putting this country between a rock and a hard place. The more activity that is taken to bolster the economy, the worse the virus will affect the country as a whole. However, ignoring socioeconomic ramifications of shutting down so much of society is going to cause a lot of death and suffering as well. There is no easy answer.

One problem is that the USA is so hung up on capitalism that is is inconceivable for the government to simply take care of the people during a crisis. Real leadership would really help out about now, but we just do not have that, except at state levels in certain states. A couple things that would help out: universal basic income, laws against eviction during a crisis, incentives and hazard pay for essential workers along with proper protective gear and training. Except the federal government just undertook huge spending bills in the bailouts, and it looks like a big chunk of that money has already been embezzled away. Thanks Republicans.

I will say this, for awhile the one thing that Trump had going for him compared to George W Bush is that Trump didn't do anything immediately catastrophic like invade Iraq. For all of Trump's screw-ups, they were mostly matters of ethics and corruption, and the catastrophes that he was setting the stage for were long-term matters like ignoring climate change. But wow he has screwed the pooch bigtime with the way he has handled this pandemic. There is no coherent federal plan outside of guidelines set out by the CDC, and even those are being politicized. There is just no strategy or long-term plan. This is what happens when the president has the attention span of a gerbil. And if anything this lack of strategy shaping up to be a much bigger disaster for the USA than the W's war in Iraq. Some people have argued in the past that the president was more of a figurehead, but hopefully this cataclysm has put that notion to rest.

If I were a strongly patriotic person, I would be absolutely devastated to see what is occurring in the USA at the moment.
Thanks for your points Shady and dang that was really well put appreciate you
 
JerryLove

JerryLove

Audioholic Samurai
Damn Jer Bear you just like to keep it going don't you?
I can keep it going all night fuzzy-bunny; but you are getting off topic, don't you think?

This is the last thing I'm gonna post to you because your not worth the time
Of course. That explains this long post you are making, about me rather than the issue, in which you spend great time telling me how you don't have time.

Sounds like connotative dissonance.

I know why your really salty
Of course you do, because you know psychology. Psychologists are always saying to you "how did you get to know so much". You know it better than the doctors do. You are a stable genius.

It's kind of like how you understand pandemic response better than the WHO, or CDC, and economic policy better than the fed. If only you were president, you'd make us great again, right?

and it's not from what I posted its from what your going through and for that I'm truly sorry but out of respect since I don't do the name calling or come at people with that pompous attitude you like to bring I won't bring it up some people have limits
Oh wow. I'm sorry this is your last post (it is your last post, isn't it? I mean: you aren't a liar, are you? You've said I'm not worth it 2-3x now); because I *really* wonder what you've invented in that skull of yours.

I mean: I'm pretty sure, like any stable genius, "I know" is followed by reasons you can't share your knowledge... but stile.

But as for your post are you INSANE? I LOOOOVE your vision of the world universal healthcare: for assistance for people financially hurting: this increased supervision for suicides: take away guns

It SOUNDS GREAT! There's just one problem where are you going to PAY for it genius?
With money and the goods and services that money represents.

(Before I start: I should point out that Alaska has been doing something similar for decades)

Let me see if I can simplify some of the math for the stable geniuses in the house.

Productivity per capita is up... way up.
Productivity is basically a measure of goods and services produced.

We'll take P as the population
So we'll take X as the total amount produced.
And we'll take X/P as the per-capita production.
And we are going to call C the total consumed.
Making C/P the per-capita consumption

For simplicity, we'll ignore trade. We can work that in; but let's start with this closed system.

If X>C you have surplus. You can try to raise C (by lowering the per-unit pricing on X, or convincing people they need to buy more); but at some point C is the limiting factor on X.

So at some point X must level, even though X/P keeps increasing.

The only way to solve this math is unemployment.

But when part of your population P stops making money, it stops consuming, which drives C down which, in turn, drives down X.

This whole process creates points of equalibrium, but as X/P continues to rise, you continue to have a rising economic challenge.

You are basically asking "how can we afford to give surplus X away"... that should be self explanatory. Bonus, that helps prevent a re-enforcement cycle of C declining.

To put it another way: there are enough goods and services for everyone. Denying people access to goods and services doesn't make things better, it makes them worse.

As to medical services.
1) We are already paying for them.. the idea is to improve access.
2) Our lack of UHC gives us the worlds most expensive medical care.
3) We already spend more government dollars per-capita on medical than countries with UHC. The funds are there, we are just mis-spending them.

But again: You are in no position to say how saintly you are while you advocate to deny children healthcare.

The Feds have loaned out how many trillion we lost how much trillion last month alone of income you have to have income for that to happen and well we froze EVERYTHING.
Odd how we can afford never-ending war but not never-ending food for our own population.

To slow the spread Which worked to the point that I know nurses that are now on corona pay and getting furloughed because well there hospitals are going under
Which you must actually be OK with, because you just opposed helping people and companies in need with "how will we pay for it".

So with no TAXES and people poor as hell were are the state's going to get the ability to do this? But GREAT IDEA GENIUS bravo. Good for you go make it happen!
I honestly don't think you know what money is.

Like, you are aware of the physical substince; but you don't understand its relationship to production or an economy.

And take away guns in America with a depression looming and increased crime and poverty coming? You think people are going to let the government get there hands on there guns in a time like this?
You were the one whining about suicide.

I'll say it one more time and I'm sorry to say it I hate this I really do A total lockdown to eradicate the virus or to buy us time for a vaccine is unrealistic it's to far spread and by the way from the newest reports on antibody testing it's got a LONG LONG way to go.

People are just going to have to accept theres going to be blood in the waters no matter which side you go hopefully we can pick a course that costs the least amount of blood to our vulnerable suffering from COVID and our vulnerable we forced into by locking down the economy
It's always amazing to watch someone argue "we can't afford it, I'd have to pay taxes and that's unacceptable" in one breath and then say "we should let people die" in the next over the same cause.

I guess you either value money or people.

But what science and you advocate is not balanced its not realistic and ultimately it's commiting suicide an indefinete lockdown
Anti-intellectualism at its finest. You just disagreed with what you yourself avowed as "science".

Fight the disease and just not take into account anything else?
Straw-man much.

It's like you don't recall the top of your post where you lambasted me accounting for everything else.

It's like you start your speech saying one thing then later contradict yourself. Who does that?

Hey maybe my posts are disjointed but at least there in the land of reality. And at least I don't disparage people that don't describe to my view of it
Yea. Not like you comment on people's imagined saltiness, or make patrnoising childish names for them or claim secret knowledge of motivations (and ad hominem)...

Oh yea. You did that this post. Contradicting yourself again you stable genius you.

Honestly no disrespect to you as a person but as far as posting between us just get the f@$! Out of here with your bullshit like you said in your last post we are DONE talking.

Keep it that way Jer Bear
See? Totally not disparaging.

Are you sure your psyciatric experience isn't as a patient?
 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Spartan
I can keep it going all night fuzzy-bunny; but you are getting off topic, don't you think?


Of course. That explains this long post you are making, about me rather than the issue, in which you spend great time telling me how you don't have time.

Sounds like connotative dissonance.


Of course you do, because you know psychology. Psychologists are always saying to you "how did you get to know so much". You know it better than the doctors do. You are a stable genius.

It's kind of like how you understand pandemic response better than the WHO, or CDC, and economic policy better than the fed. If only you were president, you'd make us great again, right?


Oh wow. I'm sorry this is your last post (it is your last post, isn't it? I mean: you aren't a liar, are you? You've said I'm not worth it 2-3x now); because I *really* wonder what you've invented in that skull of yours.

I mean: I'm pretty sure, like any stable genius, "I know" is followed by reasons you can't share your knowledge... but stile.


With money and the goods and services that money represents.

(Before I start: I should point out that Alaska has been doing something similar for decades)

Let me see if I can simplify some of the math for the stable geniuses in the house.

Productivity per capita is up... way up.
Productivity is basically a measure of goods and services produced.

We'll take P as the population
So we'll take X as the total amount produced.
And we'll take X/P as the per-capita production.
And we are going to call C the total consumed.
Making C/P the per-capita consumption

For simplicity, we'll ignore trade. We can work that in; but let's start with this closed system.

If X>C you have surplus. You can try to raise C (by lowering the per-unit pricing on X, or convincing people they need to buy more); but at some point C is the limiting factor on X.

So at some point X must level, even though X/P keeps increasing.

The only way to solve this math is unemployment.

But when part of your population P stops making money, it stops consuming, which drives C down which, in turn, drives down X.

This whole process creates points of equalibrium, but as X/P continues to rise, you continue to have a rising economic challenge.

You are basically asking "how can we afford to give surplus X away"... that should be self explanatory. Bonus, that helps prevent a re-enforcement cycle of C declining.

To put it another way: there are enough goods and services for everyone. Denying people access to goods and services doesn't make things better, it makes them worse.

As to medical services.
1) We are already paying for them.. the idea is to improve access.
2) Our lack of UHC gives us the worlds most expensive medical care.
3) We already spend more government dollars per-capita on medical than countries with UHC. The funds are there, we are just mis-spending them.

But again: You are in no position to say how saintly you are while you advocate to deny children healthcare.


Odd how we can afford never-ending war but not never-ending food for our own population.


Which you must actually be OK with, because you just opposed helping people and companies in need with "how will we pay for it".


I honestly don't think you know what money is.

Like, you are aware of the physical substince; but you don't understand its relationship to production or an economy.


You were the one whining about suicide.


It's always amazing to watch someone argue "we can't afford it, I'd have to pay taxes and that's unacceptable" in one breath and then say "we should let people die" in the next over the same cause.

I guess you either value money or people.


Anti-intellectualism at its finest. You just disagreed with what you yourself avowed as "science".


Straw-man much.

It's like you don't recall the top of your post where you lambasted me accounting for everything else.

It's like you start your speech saying one thing then later contradict yourself. Who does that?


Yea. Not like you comment on people's imagined saltiness, or make patrnoising childish names for them or claim secret knowledge of motivations (and ad hominem)...

Oh yea. You did that this post. Contradicting yourself again you stable genius you.


See? Totally not disparaging.

Are you sure your psyciatric experience isn't as a patient?
Okay okay I give I give I'll say uncle. You can have the last word

I meant what I said about getting off the thread I do have a temper sometimes and I do think I'm being counterproductive to the discussion.

I know we got pretty heated and I have no right to ask you of this but do me a favor and stop posting to me on this your wasting everyone's time when you could be helping someone else it's the only reason I'm jumping back on here we really do for the sake of the thread just need to drop this pointless back and forth

You are pretty bright I don't agree with you but theres no denying your intelligence and your obviously a caring man your passion for people and your being there for your daughter speaks for itself I'm very sorry to hear about that situation I never should have baited you after you disclosed that

As far as the psychology goes your right it's what I'm trained to do and I did mess with your head on purpose it's easy to get you going man but that was really a total d@ck move on my part and I may not be perfect but I know I can be better then that

I shouldn't have baited you that wasn't cool I shouldn't have done it no matter what I know better

Once again to the rest of the thread and to this forum of Audioholics I again apologize as I stated earlier and humbly bow out of this thread
 
JerryLove

JerryLove

Audioholic Samurai
I know we got pretty heated and I have no right to ask you of this but do me a favor and stop posting to me on this your wasting everyone's time when you could be helping someone else it's the only reason I'm jumping back on here we really do for the sake of the thread just need to drop this pointless back and forth
It's a discussion forum. While I appreciate the approach, I'm not going to ignore statements made on a discussion forum because of who made them.

Especially since my responses aren't really *for* you.

Your request is, in essence, "allow me to publicly spread misinformation without correction"

You are pretty bright I don't agree with you but theres no denying your intelligence and your obviously a caring man your passion for people and your being there for your daughter speaks for itself I'm very sorry to hear about that situation I never should have baited you after you disclosed that
I really have no idea what you are talking about.

As far as the psychology goes your right it's what I'm trained to do and I did mess with your head on purpose it's easy to get you going man but that was really a total d@ck move on my part and I may not be perfect but I know I can be better then that
Again, I have no idea what you are talking about. Sure, it's simple enough to get me to respond by trolling (or generally being passive aggressive), I hardly keep that a secret. But I really get the impression that you have an impression with very little basis in reality.

If you are departing the thread then, well, you certainly don't need to ask me to stop posting to you... all my posts have been responses.

If you are continuing to post, whether I post will be dependent on the content of yours; and if I do we can have a methodical, polite, detailed discussion of issues, or we can have a bare knuckles brawl. The former is more productive and ultimately more satisfying, but I find joy in both.

I respect/appreciate the conciliatory tone, and always attempt to respond to such posts in kind; but I cannot acquiesce to the request.
 
jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
Sigh... this is a venting response to no one in general:

When in close quarters public spaces wear your god-damned mask. When you go grocery shopping you don't need to bring your spouse and three kids NONE of you wearing masks. I actually called two adults fucking morons at Kroger right in front of their kids. I wish stores for now would go to a no shirt, no shoes, no mask policy, no service policy.

If you're some idiot in Michigan, at the capital building, sporting open carry and protesting the stay at home, I would love, in my fantasy world, to have a pump spray bottle full of it and hose you idiots down and put you in 3 week quarantine. Those that survive could then go on about their business with no mask.

I'm tired of all the stupid people.
 
Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Spartan
Sigh... this is a venting response to no one in general:

When in close quarters public spaces wear your god-damned mask. When you go grocery shopping you don't need to bring your spouse and three kids NONE of you wearing masks. I actually called two adults fucking morons at Kroger right in front of their kids. I wish stores for now would go to a no shirt, no shoes, no mask policy, no service policy.

If you're some idiot in Michigan, at the capital building, sporting open carry and protesting the stay at home, I would love, in my fantasy world, to have a pump spray bottle full of it and hose you idiots down and put you in 3 week quarantine. Those that survive could then go on about their business with no mask.

I'm tired of all the stupid people.
I hear 'ya, here in Pennsytucky from what I've witnessed so far in my neck of the woods everybody is complying with wearing a mask. We have had a lost spring up until now, with better weather from here on out I suspect we'll see some challenges to the 'social distancing'. Our golf courses have opened up, as a competitive shotgun shooter hopefully our local gun clubs can follow soon.
 
Dan

Dan

Audioholic Chief
I'd like a quick add to the above posts. Masks are no efffing good if the don't cover your NOSE as well as your mouth. I've seen so many people with masks with an exposed nose the pst few days it's ridiculous. Is it really that complicated to wear a mask instructions are needed?
 
Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Spartan
I'd like a quick add to the above posts. Masks are no efffing good if the don't cover your NOSE as well as your mouth. I've seen so many people with masks with an exposed nose the pst few days it's ridiculous. Is it really that complicated to wear a mask instructions are needed?
actually they are 'some' good, for the majority of airborne droplets are transported via ones mouth
 
M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic Samurai
Sigh... this is a venting response to no one in general:

When in close quarters public spaces wear your god-damned mask. When you go grocery shopping you don't need to bring your spouse and three kids NONE of you wearing masks. I actually called two adults fucking morons at Kroger right in front of their kids. I wish stores for now would go to a no shirt, no shoes, no mask policy, no service policy.

If you're some idiot in Michigan, at the capital building, sporting open carry and protesting the stay at home, I would love, in my fantasy world, to have a pump spray bottle full of it and hose you idiots down and put you in 3 week quarantine. Those that survive could then go on about their business with no mask.

I'm tired of all the stupid people.
Some people are really nuts:

>>>A Target security guard broke his arm during a brawl with two men after they were confronted for allegedly not wearing masks, Los Angeles Police Department said in a statement Monday. The would-be shoppers were charged with assault, police said.<<<

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/target-security-guard-assault-break-arm-face-mask/


>>>Three family members have been charged in the killing of a security guard who told a customer at a Michigan Family Dollar store to wear a state-mandated face mask, officials said on Monday.<<<

 
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