Power Ratings in Modern AVR's

[Halon451]

I'll note that it doesn't necessarily sound awful per se.. just not good enough for the money I spent on it. I'm disappointed to say the least and rather frustrated at the idea of having to go through the trouble of packing it up and returning it for an exchange. Fortunately I kept the box, all foam inserts, paperwork, accessories, etc.

It'll probably end up making someone else happy who has easier speakers to drive but it just isn't cutting it for me.

 

[lovinthehd]

So much for the supposedly more "audiophile" oriented Marantz circuitry I don't think the difference you think you remember is going to change with a new Pioneer avr, but one way to find out, so you might try it before you run out of return options. Might borrow that 2ch Crown amp from your band mate for an experiment before you think its the power issue at your spl levels.....

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Do you have access to any other speakers? Garage, band mate, mom n dad, etc. if you do, try a close ear test etc on those. That would give you another data point.

 

[PENG]

Thanks PENG about the info on Audyssey which Marantz doesn't provide.

Sorry I missed this one. I have never seen anything like that mentioned in D&M's literature. If I remember right it might have been from some sort of FAQ type when Dr. Kryriakakis answered the question. It talked about a maximum of 9 dB boost and 20 dB cut. So your 10 dB example is actually about right in terms of worst case scenario, at least in theory.

In my experience, at the lower frequencies (below 200 Hz) it may boost 6-7 dB, and the point I am trying to make is that it typically doesn't do much at frequencies above 200-250 Hz so the sub potentially take care of a good part of the potential boosts. If the 6-7 dB boost happens above the crossover points such as 80 Hz then it could tax the AVR a little, but will only be for short duration unless you are playing a test tone. Again, all these talks are interesting, but really not relevant to Halon's center channel, mid-high frequency distortions even at low spl.

 

[Halon451]

Do you have access to any other speakers? Garage, band mate, mom n dad, etc. if you do, try a close ear test etc on those. That would give you another data point.

Not really. Well I do have the two small JBL's on my patio (Zone 2) but I wouldn't trust those things to give me any kind of meaningful reference. They're on the way low end of the JBL line. They've never sounded all that great - I just keep them out there for background music on the rare occasion I throw a party lol. Then my studio monitors but those are self powered.

 

[PENG]

I guess I need to type faster.. In order not to miss the return window, maybe you should return it first and ask questions later. Sound like you will be happier with a Pioneer anyway.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Not really. Well I do have the two small JBL's on my patio (Zone 2) but I wouldn't trust those things to give me any kind of meaningful reference. They're on the way low end of the JBL line. They've never sounded all that great - I just keep them out there for background music on the rare occasion I throw a party lol. Then my studio monitors but those are self powered.

If they're not bolted down I'd try em anyway. I would think even a crummy one way would have enough treble presence to test with. Maybe not...

 

[Halon451]

I guess I need to type faster.. In order not to miss the return window, maybe you should return it first and ask questions later. Sound like you will be happier with a Pioneer anyway.

Maybe? Seems like a lot had changed in the guts of those Elites since I bought my old one, not sure how much of that would equate to a difference in sound. If they still made them without the new Class D^3 amplifiers it would be a no brainer. So I'm giving both that and the Yamaha serious consideration.

 

[Halon451]

If they're not bolted down I'd try em anyway. I would think even a crummy one way would have enough treble presence to test with. Maybe not...

Or I could just turn zone 2 on and crank it up a bit outside. They are indeed bolted on, to stucco/concrete at that.

 

[Halon451]

Or I could just turn zone 2 on and crank it up a bit outside. They are indeed bolted on, to stucco/concrete at that.

Well I did that but I don't know that provides any reasonable comparison. Those speakers just don't have a lot of fidelity built into them to begin with and I was able to play some music with a lot of high frequency hi hat sounds, the kind that would yield the best comparison - same type of thing happening, a flattening out of the sound and loss of nuance and dynamics with some fuzziness and slight distortion in that range, but it's hard to tell if it's the signal being fed to them or the fact they're just crappy speakers. They don't make a very good control group.

The lower ranges sounded decent, full bodied especially considering their small 4" woofers. But that's consistent with what's happening indoors as well.

 

[Halon451]

Question: I remember reading somewhere about resetting an AVR's processor and restoring the whole thing to factory defaults to fix some issues. Can't remember where I've read so much lately lol. Could that possibly improve anything? Sonically, what does doing that actually accomplish?

 

[Verdinut]

Factory defaults are the factory settings before you changed some on your receiver. It means that every modification to the factory settings that you've made are cancelled when you revert to those original settings..

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Well I did that but I don't know that provides any reasonable comparison. Those speakers just don't have a lot of fidelity built into them to begin with and I was able to play some music with a lot of high frequency hi hat sounds, the kind that would yield the best comparison - same type of thing happening, a flattening out of the sound and loss of nuance and dynamics with some fuzziness and slight distortion in that range, but it's hard to tell if it's the signal being fed to them or the fact they're just crappy speakers. They don't make a very good control group.

The lower ranges sounded decent, full bodied especially considering their small 4" woofers. But that's consistent with what's happening indoors as well.

So I'm short, it sounds like(haha) the jbls do the same thing? I'd say that your 01's might be off the hook too. Or no?

 

[Halon451]

So I'm short, it sounds like(haha) the jbls do the same thing? I'd say that your 01's might be off the hook too. Or no?

Yeah that's about the size of it. Nothing at all is telling me it's a speaker issue at this point.

 

[Halon451]

Factory defaults are the factory settings before you changed some on your receiver. It means that every modification to the factory settings that you've made are cancelled when you revert to those original settings..

How is that different than just manually resetting everything to its default settings in the menus? I found that doing that before running Audyssey gives the best results.

 

[Halon451]

I mean I get what a factory default reset is. I just don't know how it would fix any kind of issue like I'm experiencing

 

[Verdinut]

I mean I get what a factory default reset is. I just don't know how it would fix any kind of issue like I'm experiencing

We didn't think of this, but did you set the receiver for a 4 ohm impedance, based on the info from the Sound and Vision review? If that is the case, this might explain all your problems.
The situation with setting the SR6011 for a 4 ohm speaker impedance is that it reduces the amplifiers rail voltage thus importantly reducing their power output ratings with possible resulting distortion and clipping.

You can find more info here: http://www.audioholics.com/audio-amplifier/impedance-selector-switch-1

Let me know if it's the case. You know, we are all with you!

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

+Verdinut

 

[vsound5150]

I mean I get what a factory default reset is. I just don't know how it would fix any kind of issue like I'm experiencing

A factory reset is easy enough to rule it out, lots going on in that AVR. I factory reset everything new out of the box for peace of mind to know for sure I'm starting from scratch, never know who touched it from the assembly line to your front door.

A firmware upgrade is a must too even if it will overwrite the same version.

 

[Halon451]

We didn't think of this, but did you set the receiver for a 4 ohm impedance, based on the info from the Sound and Vision review? If that is the case, this might explain all your problems.
The situation with setting the SR6011 for a 4 ohm speaker impedance is that it reduces the amplifiers rail voltage thus importantly reducing their power output ratings with possible resulting distortion and clipping.

You can find more info here: http://www.audioholics.com/audio-amplifier/impedance-selector-switch-1

Let me know if it's the case. You know, we are all with you!

I've seen no setting whatsoever to set the receiver to various impedance. It was my understanding that the receiver just automatically detects the impedance and adjusts automatically as needed. I need to look at the manual on that one. Great point!