15 year olds system

Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
As a note here, you're on your way to becoming a packrat.
 
Davemcc

Davemcc

Audioholic Spartan
As a note here, you're on your way to becoming a packrat.
True enough. I'm glad you're still here, Craig. I've got something here I can let you have that will fix up your bass issues. If you want, I can drop them off.
 
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craig7

Senior Audioholic
True enough. I'm glad you're still here, Craig. I've got something here I can let you have that will fix up your bass issues. If you want, I can drop them off.
what do ya got?

also, i just bought a new reciver! this one is a 2.1 channel (L,R,SUB). and i got 2 new speakers and a sub with it XD the speakers are pretty loud compared to my 3 ways, and the sub is just a 4" i think but its fairly good, but my 6" is better
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
why would you say that?
I say that because you're collecting a large sum of equipment that would otherwise be in someone's garage collecting dust, attic collecting more dust, or on the curb/in dumpster.

You claim to have several hundred feet of wires all of your floor, let's hope that doesn't cause you to trip/fall and hurt yourself.

In your last post you mention you just "bought" a new receiver which is 2.1 and has two speakers and a 4" subwoofer with it.

Let me clarify a few things in regard to these pieces of equipment.

A 4" driver in virtually any orientation can't render output low enough or in high enough output to be considered a "subwoofer" in the definition of the word. At best I would call this a bass module since it is meant to complement small satellite speakers with low frequencies they are otherwise unable to output due to their size and output limitations.

Your Panasonic isn't really a subwoofer either, but I'm sure the manufacturer calls it that. Technically any subwoofer that doesn't extend to subsonic frequencies (20 Hz and below) is not a subwoofer but is rather a low frequency output device, bass module, etc...

A basic stereo receiver is 3 basic components combined into one unit; amplifier, preamplifier, and a tuner. The tuner receives radio frequencies in FM bands and typically AM bands as well, which is where they derive the name "receiver". The preamplifier controls the output level at a line output level (low voltage, low amperage to feed a higher gain input on a power amplifier for final output to speakers). It also controls input selection as well as tonal controls. The power amplifier's task is solely to drive speakers, it's level is controled by the preamplifier section. A home theater receiver adds a 4th part, a processor, which I will include digital to analog conversions as well as raw decoding and algorithm processing (such as DTS and Dolby Digital decoding from a DVD player which is a digital signal of bits and bytes).

For someone in your position of bargain hunting you should consider looking into different avenues as I get the feeling your current ones are limited to computer speakers, home theater in a box systems, and shelf systems.

Garage sales commonly have old to vintage audio equipment that is cheap and effective. I have bought countless cheap audio components from garage sales, pawn shops, thrift shops (less common that you'll find much that's good in a thrift shop, but you can still score big in those places), and I also like to see what's going on craigslist. I don't know if you travel often to Detroit, but that town is full of pawn shops (convincing your parents to take you could be difficult). Personally I would avoid dealing with people on craigslist in Detroit, stick to Windsor if you can, although it seems fairly inactive.

Because you're 15 your transportation is probably limited, as well as your accessibility to any reasonable funds to go out looking for audio equipment. However, if you save what little you get eventually you'll be able to get something you want instead of some second rate toys. When I was 11 or 12 I was like you, I had taken speakers out of toys, little motors, and tinkered around with everything. Toward the beginning of my audio ventures I received that Panasonic stereo I mentioned near the beginning of the thread. By the time I was 14-15 I had that Denon integrated amplifier (a receiver minus the tuner) and a pair of Jensen C-JR bookshelf speakers. Those little speakers were pretty cheap, however they sounded far better than what came with the panasonic system, and they were a lot smaller too. I didn't really need a subwoofer at the time and I got by fine with their bass output which was reasonable. I paid $20 for the amp and $40 for the speakers when they were on sale. I used a boombox I had as the source by using the headphone output as a line level out, then shortly after a portable CD player that actually had a dedicated output.

Used CD players are a dime a dozen, however you have a computer (something I certainly did not have when I was your age) so you'll probably be fine listening to most or all of your music while using that as your source. A CD player is nice because it doesn't include a fan noise, and lots of light.

I had realized that picking up every junk little speaker and internally amplified setup was not ever going to help me. As a kid I had to fight the temptation to buy petty little powered speakers at garage sales. I know how it feels, but if you don't stop yourself know, who knows where you'll be by the time your my age? Probably under a pile of junk that you collected during that time. I know this can happen easily and without yourself even noticing, my dad and aunt are perfect examples.
 
Davemcc

Davemcc

Audioholic Spartan
what do ya got?
I have my old pair of Sansui 4-way speakers with 15" woofers. I think the mids are blown but the horn tweeters and super tweeters are fine.

I have used them just for bass by running them through an amp that is fed only below 80hz signal from the subwoofer output. It worked out well for me. Or you could replace the blown drivers and have a fine set of speakers.

Hold on, I have a pic.

 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
If he lived closer I'd probably give him those Jensen C-JR bookshelf speakers. I can't even get anyone to buy them for $20 locally.
 
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craig7

Senior Audioholic
seth, my panasonic can hit 15Hz at a very reasonable volume, so i would call them a subwoofer, and the 4" sub i got last night, well that one might not go much lower than 20Hz. but all of my 4" speakers that i call 'subwoofers' can hit frequencies below 20Hz, i have one that i use so it vibrates my like a bass shaker, that one can hit 10Hz
 
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craig7

Senior Audioholic
I have my old pair of Sansui 4-way speakers with 15" woofers. I think the mids are blown but the horn tweeters and super tweeters are fine.

I have used them just for bass by running them through an amp that is fed only below 80hz signal from the subwoofer output. It worked out well for me. Or you could replace the blown drivers and have a fine set of speakers.

Hold on, I have a pic.

WOW, those look amazing, last night when i upgraded to 2.1, i finally truly surpassed my parents system, those speakers would be the perfect way to rub it in their face :p how much u want 4 them?
 
dkane360

dkane360

Audioholic Field Marshall
seth, my panasonic can hit 15Hz at a very reasonable volume, so i would call them a subwoofer, and the 4" sub i got last night, well that one might not go much lower than 20Hz. but all of my 4" speakers that i call 'subwoofers' can hit frequencies below 20Hz, i have one that i use so it vibrates my like a bass shaker, that one can hit 10Hz
Just because you can feel it, doesn't mean it's under 20hz. Not to be rude, but I seriously doubt your speakers can go that low. I don't even think my Dayton Titanic MKIII with a 15" driver and a 1,000 watt amp can hit 15 hz.
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
Just because the driver is still moving and you can see it moving does not mean it's producing meaningful output. I've put 10 Hz test tones through little 5.25" woofers and they moved, and the parts of the driver were making noise, but it was in no way related to the production of music or a soundtrack, they were just making noise.

I can be absolutely certain the Panasonic SB-W860 gets no were close to subsonic output.

SB-S860 frequency response (as published by Panasonic) - 32 Hz - 220 Hz (-16 dB)

Now there's a dismal specification. The frequency responce almost looks good, other than the HUGE deviation in dB. A typical and respectable deviation would be +/- 3 dB for any subwoofer engineered to actually do what a subwoofer is meant to do, augment the low end without sounding like a thump box. If one were to plot the woofer on a +/- 3 dB, assuming it was possible because the cabinet is of such low quality it would ring to high heavens, you might get 45 Hz - 200 Hz. This is far from subsonic as far as subwoofers are concerned. The feeling you're getting from the woofer you've been using as a bass shaker is not related to it's ability to produce low frequencies, but rather a mechanical vibration from the transfer of motion of the woofer to the frame of what it's mounted to. The frame, I'll assume is metal, is producing sound as a result of the mechanical motion of the 4" woofer. A 4" woofer simply does not have the capability to operate at those frequencies for an in room application, and only a specially designed micro subwoofer for something smaller than a room (such as a closed space headphone environment) would be able to produce such frequencies.

Until you have a real subwoofer, or hear one, you will not truly understand feeling subsonic frequencies. Believe it or not, most car systems, even the ones with 15 inch woofers that you can hear a block away and feel vibrating the ground are not producing subsonic frequencies and often aren't able to play below 20 Hz anyway, at least not at a reasonable output level.

Movie theater subwoofers, most often several 18" subs are larger line the front of the theater, but they don't play subsonic material. They have plenty of slam, and you can feel the bass, but the sound is not subsonic. When you have a subwoofer that can generate a feeling similar to an earthquake in your home, then you have a subwoofer. A frequency low enough that you simply can't hear any mechanical vibration, just an errie motion in the room you occupy, then you will understand.

You could also try getting an SPL meter and running a test tone generator with the SPL meter located at your listening position (meaning were your ears will be positioned when listening, not were you're rear will be). You'll gain a better understanding of frequency responses and output if you have an SPL meter and some test tones.
 
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craig7

Senior Audioholic
alright then, how much would a subwoofer that can hit subsonic frequencies cost?
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
alright then, how much would a subwoofer that can hit subsonic frequencies cost?
You're looking at this the wrong way. The first subwoofer I bought that was capable into subsonic frequencies was a Paradigm PS-1000 (a $600 self amplified sub with crossover I paid $100 for). However, subsonic isn't absolutely necessary. Most folks get plenty of enjoyment from budget subwoofers that won't necessarily rock your world and your neighbor's too, but will certainly get the job done. I honestly don't think you need a powered subwoofer at this point, you need to start with a real receiver or integrated amplifier and a pair of speakers. One member on here is selling a nice little 8" powered subwoofer that gets down to 25 Hz in certain rooms assuming it's positioned correctly, which is excellent for it's size and price of only $50 (not including his shipping though I'm afraid).

Having extraordinary patience and doing diligent research will reward you with many treasures. Lucky for you the internet is at your disposal so you can do more research than I ever could at your age. My limits of learning were in magazines, limited books, and electronics stores (like Circuit City, Best Buy, and some high fidelity shops). Once I had access to the internet (only at school) the learning curve shifted in my favor, now that I have a computer at home (and for the past several years) I've leapfrogged through ponds of knowledge and information.

I know you're only 15-16 years old, so money probably isn't exactly easy to come by. I don't know exactly what your financial situation is. See what kind of odd jobs you can do for your parents, family, friends, neighbors to earn some green. Anything you have of value that you know you don't want or don't need anymore you could sell. If you have an allowance you could start saving it instead of buying a new toy every time you see one.

Since Dave is pretty much offering you give away his Sansui speakers I'd suggest taking him up on that then finding a proper replacement midrange from Partsexpress. As far as powering them, the Sonic T-amp is a cheap "new" solution, however limited on power output capability (15 watts per channel). I would be on the look out for an 80's or 90's stereo or dolby pro logic receiver from a reputable manufacturer such as Pioneer, Sony, Aiwa, Technics, Kenwood (something cheap, but effective). I wouldn't recommend searching for something like Denon or Onkyo because most of the time the prices will be higher because the owner usually thinks they are considered to be a cut above the normal hum drum receiver.

All in all, you could theoritically spend less than $50 and have a working stereo with a pair of 15" woofers that are sure to extend lower and go much louder than the 4" woofers you currently have. Once you've moved past the Sansui speakers to something modern with an effective and proven design you'll probably forget the good old days of listening to speakers in a toaster strudel box.
 
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craig7

Senior Audioholic
dont diss the strudel speakers, they're only tweeters
 
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craig7

Senior Audioholic
and with my christmas $ ill probably get a new reciever . also if i was gonna buy a 80's or 90's stereo, i could use my parents old pioneer one, but honestly, my whole setup is better than my parents, the only place where their receiver is better, is theirs has an equalizer built in. my friends step-dad just got a new receiver in their garage to replace an old 5.1 and i might be able to buy their old one, i dont know how much they want for it however, but now that im on 2.1 i dont want to have to go back to plain old 2 channel audio.
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
i could use my parents old pioneer one, but honestly, my whole setup is better than my parents, the only place where their receiver is better, is theirs has an equalizer built in.
Can you ellaborate on your receiver? What is it exactly? I'm willing to wager what ever receiver it is they have, it's probably superior to any power source you currently have.

my friends step-dad just got a new receiver in their garage to replace an old 5.1 and i might be able to buy their old one, i dont know how much they want for it however
You should look into at the very least, maybe they'll let you have it if you do some chores or work for them. Offer to clean out their gutters before winter sets in or something, rake their yard, etc...

but now that im on 2.1 i dont want to have to go back to plain old 2 channel audio.
That's because you've been using non-full range speakers. Those Sansui speakers would blow what you've got out of the water, especially after the midrange gets replaced. Please find out the model of the Pioneer receiver as well as the make and model of the receiver that your friend's step-father has.
 

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