Yamaha vs. Outlaw receivers, anyone ?

G

Guest

Guest
<font color='#000000'>Heard a lot of hype about Outlaw and it seems there is a very satisfied and vocal user group there. &nbsp;I am just curious has anyone has experience comparing them with Yamaha receivers?

Thanks,

Abe</font>
 
Yamahaluver

Yamahaluver

Audioholic General
<font color='#0000FF'>Hi Abe,

No direct comparisons possible as they are of totally different class altogehter. Suffice to say that the amp section in Yamaha RXV-1400 may loose out to the Outlaw in dynamics but will better it with its low THD and excellent detail.</font>
 
G

Guest

Guest
<font color='#000000'>Hi Yamahaluver man, &nbsp;what about RX-V1 or Z1 vs. Outlaw? &nbsp;Also the DAC section performance is a key for me as I will feed digital signal directly into the receiver. &nbsp; My hunch is that Yamaha will probably win in this case.

Thanks, &nbsp;

Abe</font>
 
Yamahaluver

Yamahaluver

Audioholic General
<font color='#0000FF'>I cant tell you about the RXV-1 but I own the DSP AZ-1 which is basically the RXZ-1 sans tuner and can tell you that not only is the amp section phenomenal but the Burr Brown d/a as well as Yamaha's own propiretary LSi makes it one fantastic unit and right now they go on sale due to their non flaggship status as the Z-9 is their new flagship. The beauty of the DSP-AZ1 amp section is that even under high volume stressfull situation, it nevers looses composure.</font>
 
G

Guest

Guest
<font color='#000000'>Yamahaluver,  

DSP-AZ1 is THE one I am thinking of -- 200W, 192/24 Burr Brown, no tuner!   Where did you get it?  


Abe</font>
 
Yamahaluver

Yamahaluver

Audioholic General
<font color='#0000FF'>Hi abe,

I got my unit here in India and you can get this unit all over Asia including Japan, China etc. as well as all over Europe including Germany where it is quite popular as well as Italy, France and England.</font>
 
G

Guest

Guest
<font color='#000000'>Lucky you, Yamahaluver. &nbsp; &nbsp;I simply can't understand why Yamaha markets RX-Z1 only in US with 130W and a tuner?! &nbsp;Why not both, like RX-AZ1 and Z1 ? &nbsp; I don't see any extra work incurred for Yamaha at all.

Anyone ever complained to Yamaha USA?


Abe</font>
 
Yamahaluver

Yamahaluver

Audioholic General
<font color='#0000FF'>Abe,

Just to clear your confusion about the power ratings, in the US, the criteria for rating amp power is different than the ones in Europe and Japan and therefore you see the difference, the RXZ-1 and DSP-AZ1 have the same power rating that is 130W rms into 8ohms.</font>
 
G

Guest

Guest
<font color='#000000'>Ah! &nbsp;I get it. &nbsp;It is rated MAXIMUM power of 200W instead of rms 130W as rated in the US. &nbsp;Phew, where is ISO ?


Abe</font>
 
Yamahaluver

Yamahaluver

Audioholic General
<font color='#0000FF'>Look for DIN rating on both the US and the general version and you will see it is the same.</font>
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
<font color='#000000'>&quot;No direct comparisons possible as they are of totally different class altogehter. Suffice to say that the amp section in Yamaha RXV-1400 may loose out to the Outlaw in dynamics but will better it with its low THD and excellent detail. &quot;

Here we go again


I have to disagree with Yamaha lover on his above statement. Yamaha is quality work &nbsp;and I won't dispute that. &nbsp;Which model of Outlaw was being compared? Was it Outlaw's receiver; 65x6 . Yeah The Yammy 1400 has got it beat. But I will voucher that Outlaw 's 200 watt offerings will beat Yamaha's amp sections in clarity, detaill etc. &nbsp; DVD ETC reviewed Outlaw's 7x100 watt power amp and comapred it to tjeir B7K flagship receiver and liked the sound of the Outlaw much beter stating that they heard details &nbsp;in the music tha they didn't hear from B&amp;K. &nbsp;

If you want to read reviews of Outlaw; try here. &nbsp;
http://audioreview.com/Outlaw%20Audio/MCL_717crx.aspx</font>
 
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Yamahaluver

Yamahaluver

Audioholic General
<font color='#0000FF'>Sorry 3db,

I respectfully disagree, the only place the Yamaha might loose to the Outlaw is in dynamics due to Outlaw's higer wattage rating, otherwise the Yamaha has much lower noise and has way better clarity, in case you wish to do direct comparison, I suggest you check out Yamaha's 70lb 260W MX-1 and that would be a fitting competition.

The noise factor of Outlaw has been disucced here before by no less than Hawke and Gene so I am not the only one here of this opinion. Of course your perceptions may be entirely different than mine and that is what makes this feild so subjective.</font>
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
<font color='#000000'>Hey Yamahaleuver


I remember the noise floor discussion. &nbsp;I remember asking Gene or Hawk to show where they got their numbers as I posted an advertised &nbsp;spec from Oulaw on this web page which indicated a much better S/N ratio then was orginally posted . The outcome of &nbsp;the noise floor calculation was very low for Outlaw, in audiophile territory.

70 lb power amps from Yamaha? &nbsp;fearher weights compared to the 90+pounds of Outlaw *L* &nbsp;j/k &nbsp; In all seriousness, I bet if you and eye were subjected to a DBT betwqeen the two, I'd bet that we would not be able to distinguish between them. &nbsp;

I don't know where you live but I haven't seen any power amps from Yamaha for sale in any of the quality audio stores. I interpet this as Yamaha is not selling them to the Canadian market. I &nbsp;may be wrong with this last statement but its based on where I live.</font>
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
<font color='#000000'>3dB;

Sorry but I don't recall your post. &nbsp;However, when comparing SNR make sure its an apples to apples comparison. &nbsp;Many amp companies rate their SNR @ full power to give the illusion of better SNR. &nbsp;I am not saying the Outlaw is a bad or noisey unit, but make sure when you compare its SNR, you are doing it at the same reference level of other amplifiers. &nbsp;One day when time permits, I may author an article on this to clear up the confusion.</font>
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
<font color='#000000'>The post below ; Can't believe it was September and its already November. &nbsp; Cheers


Staff Member/Founder



Group: SuperAdministrator
Posts: 365
Joined: July 2002
Posted: Sep. 21 2003,15:54
All;

Unless otherwise specified, when an amplifier company lists SNR it is a full power rating. &nbsp;This is somewhat misleading since the listener rarely achieves such high output levels while preserving their hearing and their speakers.

To translate a rating down to 1 watt is simple. &nbsp;Lets take the following example:

Amp rating: &nbsp;200wpc 8ohms, &nbsp;SNR = 112dBA (A-weighing)

We convert 200watts/8ohms to voltage by: P = V^2/R
thus: &nbsp;V = sqrt(V*R) = sqrt(200*8) = 40 Volts
If we wish to translate down to 1watt, you need to compare this ratio to 2.83V (1 watt into &nbsp;ohms).

Correction Factor = 20*log(40/28.3)
Thus: &nbsp;SNR @1Watt = SNR(Full Power) - Correction Factor
SNR@1watt = 112dB - 23dB = 89dB!
This is a pretty good #, not sure why the link I read on one of the Outlaw amps speced only 100dBA at full power. Perhaps it was another model.

3dB;
To answer your question, Yes SNR is not everything, but it is a very good indication of how good a system will be at resolving low level details.

I believe the fundemental point of this thread is to help people understand that the old misconception that &quot;Separates are always better than Receivers&quot; just isn't true any longer. &nbsp;I have personally discovered that the Denon AVR-5803 betters pretty much most separates solution at its price point with respect to flexibility, processing power and fidelity. &nbsp;If I were assembling a new home theater system it would certainly be on my list as an option to consider. &nbsp;Does it have a better amp section than separates? &nbsp;That depends on a lot of factors. &nbsp;Certainly there are 7CH amps out there for around $2K that may offer more power, but not all of them will do so with the same level of finesses. &nbsp;There are always compromises to consider, especially when dealing with a budget.

Audiouser;

I love your cable analogy with chocolate. &nbsp;I use that one often myself &nbsp;


I agree with you 100% thus why we started measuring cables to verify, or more commonly debunk manufacturers claims.

Edited by gene on Sep. 21 2003,16:09

--------------
pursuing the truth in audio...</font>
 
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Yamahaluver

Yamahaluver

Audioholic General
<font color='#0000FF'>3db,

Yamaha withdrew from the amp mrket in the nineties and you can still see them being actively traded on e-bay where they fetch 50-65% of their original price and these are almost over 15 years old. 70lb is quite heavy for a 2 channel amp as far as I can recall when similar offerings from Adcom, Parasound etc. dont weight over 40lb with exception like Krell.

Anyways, I wont ever directly compare the two except leave it to the person's ears.

Yamaha has recently introduced real expensive multi chanel amps worth over $3500 for HT use, would be interesting to see the test.</font>
 
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