Yamaha or Outlaw

[gene]

<font color='#000000'>Bruce;

I find the following statement you directed at me very offensive.
<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I think it's simply unethical for you to make that statement.</td></tr></table>

I was not suggesting that used separates are not a better value than new receivers, nor was I deterring anyone from either option. &nbsp;I was simply trying to compare products based on equal playing fields. &nbsp;If you are going to compare value/dollar of used gear, do it equally for both receivers and separates and also make sure the buyer is ok with purchasing used gear.

I also have nothing to gain in the purchasing decision that the original forum member makes. &nbsp;In fact, your comments directed towards me makes me more reluctant now to openly give anyone advice on equipment purchases.

</font>

 

[Audioholics]

<font color='#008080'>Gene,

I find you quoting your unethical quote yourself unethical.

Sorry... couldn't resist.</font>

 

[Guest]

<font color='#000000'>Gene and hawke,

Look,

I'm not trying to cause an argument.  

I just naturally respond when people tell me my experience and comments are not &quot;fair&quot;.

Let's get on with helping people get what they want, a
Great HT experience!</font>

 

[gene]

<font color='#000000'>Bruce;

I think what has happened here is misunderstanding of word usage. &nbsp;I agree, lets just move on.

On a good note, we just got word that the Sunfire Cinema III and Integra Research RDC-7 are on their way. &nbsp;Expect a review of these products within 2 or 3 months time!</font>

 

[Guest]

<font color='#000000'>Gene,

That's great!! &nbsp;Is the RDC-7 up for review the new model?</font>

 

[gene]

<font color='#000000'>Yes, Integra Research is sending us the upgraded RDC-7. &nbsp;I expect very good things out of this unit &nbsp;

</font>

 

[Khellandros66]

<font color='#000000'>Hey Guys

Just wondering why do the RDC-7 when there is the DTC-9.4? Just curious.

BTW
SinCityDave,

Crazy Eddie does have great prices, its where I got my Yamaha RX-V1300. Only downside is they aren't authorized dealer.

Another contender would be ADCOMs
http://www.audioadvisor.com/store....ocessor

~</font>

 

[Yamahaluver]

<font color='#0000FF'>khellandros,

I thought Crazy Eddie went out of business in the late eighties. Are they still there? Looks like they are doing the 6th Avenue unauthorized route.</font>

 

[Rob Babcock]

<font color='#000000'>IMOHO, getting a good amp/amps and using a midpriced reciever as a prepro is the best option. &nbsp;I use a Denon AVR 3802 with outboard amps; soundwise, the only major limitation of this rec is the amp section. &nbsp;As a prepro it's dead silent and clean as a whistle.

I feel that as fast as things change in HT, it's lunacy to sink several grand into a prepro that in all likelihood has no provision to upgrade software when it becomes available. &nbsp;Certainly some do, but not many reasonably priced ones. &nbsp;A good example is Pro Logic II- I consider this a big enough improvement that I'll take my Denon with PLII over any older prepro up to $5k that lacks this feature. &nbsp;I find PLII to be such a staggering inprovement over PL that I now enjoy older DVDs that I never used to bother with before.

Likewise, with DTS-ES, EX, DD 6.1, etc that you just don't know what's around the corner. &nbsp;By getting a reciever and replacing as new formats come up you can keep up to date and keep the same amps.

That said, I'd like to get a high end prepro someday, but I just can't justify the cost right now, and I certainly can't afford one that would best my Denon.</font>

 

[Guest]

<font color='#000000'><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> IMOHO, getting a good amp/amps and using a midpriced reciever as a prepro is the best option.  </td></tr></table>
Not a bad decision at all, but I think it depends somewhat on what the pricing is.

For instance I would gladly take the Anthem AVM-20 as a prepro and be happy about the easy upgaradeability that has transpired with that unit (software upgrades downloded from a PC).  There have been some major changes with the software to the good side with this company.

My problem with most receivers, is like anything else including prepros, they are designed to meet a price point.  When that price also has to include amps something else suffers.

A prepro with less demands on the power supply than a receiver has the potential to deliver finer detail with a lower noise floor.  I'm not saying all prepros do, it's just that a less stressed power supply can deliver cleaner power with less deviations to the circuitry.  Amp modules in receivers will stress the power supply more than a prepro would.

It's all about what meets your ear and pocketbook satisfaction level.  I don't own an AVM-20 yet because it's still above my budget level, (and it's only a mid-level prepro) but maybe soon or maybe used.

I've really made some phenomenal buys used, including speakers and preamps. &nbsp;I think amps, preamps and prepros provide great used buying options.</font>

 

[Audioholics]

<font color='#008080'>You just described my system... though I am lacking in the PL II department...

Yamaha RX-V3000 (as pre-pro) + Sherbourn 7/2100</font>

 

[Rob Babcock]

<font color='#000000'>The power supply of a reciever gets to almost take the day off when used as a prepro. &nbsp;That's why they work so well with outboard amps.

Sure, I don't deny that if you've got the jing, go with a prepro. &nbsp;I'd love to have a Lexicon MC12/8, or even a Sunfire TGIII. &nbsp;But I can't afford that, and I'd hate to spend what I'd consider a lot on an affordable processor that is almost never upgradeable. &nbsp;If you go with an Outlaw or maybe a Rotel or Adcom, that's almost as cheap as a reciever, so it wouldn't leave you high and dry if you had to replace it altogether.

Unless I'm misunderstanding the original post, tho, we are mainly discussing the cheaper ones here. &nbsp;The Anthem, while a nice piece, costs more than the Outlaw pre and amp combined.

Besides, cheap prepros often have the exact same chipsets as the recievers...</font>

 

[Guest]

<font color='#000000'><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> Unless I'm misunderstanding the original post, tho, we are mainly discussing the cheaper ones here.  The Anthem, while a nice piece, costs more than the Outlaw pre and amp combined.
</td></tr></table>

That's why I brought up the used prepro opportunity.  You really can't get a better HT for the $$ experience than Lexicon Logic 7 with a used DC-1, DC-2 or MC-1, and the least expensive DC-1 (version 4.0 sw) can be had for about $800.  You might find a new Rotel 1066 for $1200 and maybe even one used for less, but I wouldn't touch the Adcom.</font>

 

[Yamahaluver]

<font color='#0000FF'><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>

hawke : You just described my system... though I am lacking in the PL II department...

Yamaha RX-V3000 (as pre-pro) + Sherbourn 7/2100

hawke,

I have PL-II on my AZ-1 and believe me, you are missing nothing. Stay with your RXV-3000. It is a solid receiver.

Just wanted to add that DTS is my personally preferred format where ever I have a choice of both.</font>

 

[Guest]

<font color='#000000'>I'm not sure how PL-II is implemented in most receivers, but many HT users (@AVScience, @HTForum, @HTTAlk, etc.)have praised PL-II (in receivers and prepros) as providing close to discrete 5.1 output on lots of 2-channel source material, especially that encoded as Dolby Stereo or Dolby Surround.  Even to the point 2-channel flyovers sounding realisticaly like 5.1.

PL-II provides both PL-II Cinema and PL-II Music and does have adjustable parameters for PL-II Music (like width of L&amp;R soundstage and front to back soundstaging).

PL-I and PL-II are designed around two completely different algorithm designs.

By the way, if you would like to read an explanation of the technology from the man who invented PL-II, Jim Fosgate, who then sold it to Dolby, here is a discussion  (back in 2000) where he explains it in his own words.</font>

 

[Audioholics]

<font color='#008080'>I've heard good things about PL-II as well and am looking forward to hearing it when I review an upcoming mid-fi receiver.</font>

 

[Guest]

<font color='#000000'><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> Just wanted to add that DTS is my personally preferred format where ever I have a choice of both. </td></tr></table>
IIRC DTS and DD are both typically 5.1 digital sources (except for DD 2.0-4.0 and DTS CDs).

In this particular case, it really isn't fair to compare DPL-II, a 2-channel source (analog or digital) matrixed into a 5.1 output stream, to a discrete digital 5.1 source like DTS.  Now if you meant to say DTS-Neo, then that's a fair comparison.</font>

 

[music4jeff]

<font color='#000000'>oh my such controvery.

I have listened to the Yamaha RZX-1 and the Outlaw 950 at the recent Stereophile Home Theater Show in SF. &nbsp;You can read my thoughts in the &quot;Outlaw....go for seperates or no ?&quot; thread on this forum. &nbsp;I was not as impressed with the tonal quality or spacial foundation of the Yamaha (after requesting the no-gimicks and even with the gimicks) in comparison. &nbsp;Of course, there could be a multitude of factors like room acoustics (although the Yamaha room had better dimensions for better acoustics, but the Outlaw room had more treatmesnt) speaker choice, etc.

I was blown away with the Outlaw system.

You can now purchase a &quot;B&quot;unit and a 7-channel 100W/channel (which was what I heard at the show) at the Outlaw site for about $1498 (or $1598 for new) and then have enough for the PCA cables (which I highly recommend - got those with my ICBM)

Good Luck</font>