Yamaha or Denon or Marantz or Onkyo for less than $350

G

GomGom

Audioholic
Hi neighbour,

I'm on the island, close to Victoria.

I own the Onkyo TX-SR805 and the TX-SR876. But I own a big Setup, with huge speakers in a 9.2 (up to 11.3) system configuration! And my Emotiva XPA-3 will eventually power my 3 front mains. All my speakers are a very demanding loads, down to 2.8ohm!

Go to London Drugs, and the 705 is at a clearance price right now. Check all the London Drugs near Vancouver (there is a bunch of them), and you will be able to score the 705 (it's really worth it to expand your budget for it).
By the way, London Drugs receivers are brand new, no refurbs there. And their warranty is two years, plus you can buy extra for very little.

But if you get a refurb from a place like accessories4less in the USA, it is a very good place and the refurbs are brand new, they are only returns, etc., but they are all up to date, without a single scratch, and they do have a warranty too. Very good feedbacks from all the members at AVS about accessories4less, so don't fret it a bit.

If you buy the 705 or the 606 (should go with the 705 though), where will you buy it?

When you said your budget was $350, you meant USA dollars, right?

And the 606 will be on clearance, soon as London Drugs get the 607, which should be any day now.

What you think?

Bob
I bargained with Visions for the 606 and the lowest they can give me is $499+tax or $520+tax including 5 years warranty from visions. Yeah, $350 I talked about is in USD so it means, I can go around CA$500 clean (taxed or shipped). I just checked the London Drugs site and I can't see any receiver there. I'll try to go there tomorrow. If the price they can offer me is the same as the AC4L, I'd get it local.

This is my first HT and I've been dreaming to have my own HT system since years back then. It's very small compared to yours and other members here but it's quite a bit for me. I just calculated the total cost of my system approximately CA$1500 for 2.1 bookshelf system + dayton subwoofer. The biggest portion of the budget goes to Onkyo 705. I wish I can purchase SVS sub too but I'd skip it for now. Need to save up more for future upgrade.

Any thought to share?

Just found out this subwoofer on Onecall for less than $200
Velodyne VX10B Factory Renewed Black Subwoofer
http://www.onecall.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=92477

What do you guys think of this compared to Dayton SUB-120?
 
Last edited:
Lordoftherings

Lordoftherings

Banned
As well Onkyo TX-SR705. (And the Marantz 4002 & 5002 have only HDMI version 1.1 and no new high resolution audio decoders, and much less features than the 705, and the Marantz in Canada are more money too and harder to find).

OP (GomGom), Visions is not the best place. Call London Drugs, don't check their site, it is obsolete. I'm sure you can get the 705 for $599 cdn max. (maybe less, $549 cdn).

And if you wait a bit, the 606 will be about $399 cdn (or less, $349 cdn).

Warranty on both is 2 years. Also London Drugs will match any other Canadian stores, even internet ones, like Visions, Electronics for less, or any other one.

When you find (by phone) as London Drugs store that still have a 705, ask the clearance price, and then offer them $499 cdn, you will eventually get it.
If not try $549 cdn.
Heck, the 705 is worth an extra $200 over the 606 easily.

Good luck & let me know how you're doing in your search of Audio Nirvana. :)

Bob

Note:--> Velodyne is a good brand for subwoofers, the one in your link seems to be a good deal. I am not familiar with the Dayton SUB-120.

* Important: Why are you not getting the full speaker setup instead of just 2.1?
Speakers are more important than the receiver. Maybe you should get the 606 for about $349 to $399 cdn, and put some more serious value money for quality speakers, like Paradigm or Energy or Mirage (NANOSAT), they are small, so you can get 5 of them. Or you can get the full NANOSYSTEM. Or Paradigm Cinema series full system (very affordable). The Cinema 70 CT is super affordable, and great Canadian home made too.
 
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G

GomGom

Audioholic
Note:--> Velodyne is a good brand for subwoofers, the one in your link seems to be a good deal. I am not familiar with the Dayton SUB-120.

* Important: Why are you not getting the full speaker setup instead of just 2.1?
Speakers are more important than the receiver. Maybe you should get the 606 for about $349 to $399 cdn, and put some more serious value money for quality speakers, like Paradigm or Energy or Mirage (NANOSAT), they are small, so you can get 5 of them. Or you can get the full NANOSYSTEM. Or Paradigm Cinema series full system (very affordable). The Cinema 70 CT is super affordable, and great Canadian home made too.
I'm doing 2.1 because I will have it in my apartment living room which does not have much space to put 5.1 or 7.1. I rather get a decent 2.1 instead of 5.1 but lower quality. Paradigm is too expensive for me, even KEF iQ7 was too expensive. That's why just I'm getting a pair of Definitive Technology Studio Monitor 450 that is on sale from US$658 to US$248 plus $50 shipping to my relative in Seattle.
My room setup would just be like the TV on the one end and the sofa on the other end right against the wall so if I have surrounds, they will be right beside your ears. LOL...
If I can spend more than $500 on speakers only, I'd rather get a floorstanders. I don't know if I'm doing a right way, I'm just starting this new expensive hobby couple months ago and researching about this and that.

That's what I'm battling about too. MatthewB, who is the owner of Def Tech speakers too, recommend Def Tech SM450 and he even would compare the mid and high freq output quality to B&W 800 series, assuming the low freq will be covered by the sub. I even torn with B&W 600 series so if it's comparable to B&W 800 series, it's a truly gem. I know that it's kinda silly to compare below $700 speakers to thousand dollars speakers but it might be true. In AV forums, some Def Tech SM450 owners also claim that they are impressed on how the speakers perform and compared them to Monitor Audio Gold series. I also understand that sound quality is very personal preference. Because we don't have Def Tech dealer in Vancouver, I think I would give that speakers a try.

My simple and idiotic judgment against Def Tech SM450 is that for a bookshelf speaker that cost close to $700 and I think it's not British or European brand, it'd better be good and comparable to $1000s brand name speakers such as Paradigm or B&W. Also, since this is my first time buying a system, I want to test it if this is the right hobby for me. If it is and I'm thirsty even more, I'd get another pair of decent floorstanders and put my bookshelfs as surrounds. So for now, I want to get at least a decent bookshelf speakers and receiver that will give me the best sound quality from what I have, then I can step up further whenever I'm ready without replacing my receiver. So either 606 or 705 should be enough for me. Do you think 606 would be enough or still just go with 705? I'll try to call london drugs about the onkyos tomorrow.

What do you think?
I'm hoping to make my mind and purchase soon before the sale ends. I also can't wait to enjoy my newly renovated apartment with a nice HT system. LoL...
(If you have msn, I'd be great to add you on my msn so I can talk to you directly)
 
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G

GomGom

Audioholic
Update: London drugs does not have Onkyo 705 and AC4L just sold out of their 705. So the only choice I have now is Onkyo 606.
 
Lordoftherings

Lordoftherings

Banned
Why don't you get the Marantz 4002?
Does the 4002 decode the new high res. audio codecs?

Does the 4002 have Audyssey MultEQ room correction?

Does the 4002 have preouts for all channels?

How many HDMI inputs does the 4002 have?

Which version of HDMI does the 4002 have?

Do you know the price of the 4002 in Canada?

Does the 4002 have separate x-overs for all speakers?

Regards,

Bob
 
Lordoftherings

Lordoftherings

Banned
Update: London drugs does not have Onkyo 705 and AC4L just sold out of their 705. So the only choice I have now is Onkyo 606.
Here's what you have to do: when you call London Drugs, ask the men to check in his system to see which store has it (705), then you can order it and ask them to send it from that store to the store closest to you. You have to make arrangement with the dealer from your store.
There must be at least one store that still carry it.
If not, the 606 should be no more than $399 cdn.
If it's more, and you can wait a bit, it will drop in price very soon.
I will not pay more than $450 for the 606.

Did you check some prices on Marantz SR5003 or 4003?
Or Denon AVR-1909 or 1908?
Or Yamaha RX-V665 or 663?
Or Pioneer VSX-1018AH-K or VSX-919V-K?

Take your time, check all their features at their respective web sites, and then compare their prices. Don't rush it, the more time you analyse the situation, the better prepare you will get to your decision and the happier you will be, and enjoy your final purchase. ;)

Keep in touch with your findings.

Bob
 
G

GomGom

Audioholic
Bob, what do you think of HK AVR 254 for $390?
I love how the Pioneer looks like but they price is so expensive...
 
Last edited:
Lordoftherings

Lordoftherings

Banned
Bob, what do you think of HK AVR 254 for $390?
I love how the Pioneer looks like but they price is so expensive...
I'll be honest with you, I don't know enough about this particilar receiver, maybe someone else can pitch in.
I have an Harman Kardon receiver in the past and it broke down on me, so my past experience was not that great.
Personally I dismiss Harman Kardon totally.

I still think the Onkyo TX-SR606 is a better receiver with Audyssey and 2 years warranty. Plus it is 90 watts x 7, vs 50 watts x 7 for the HK.
Also the 606 have one more HDMI input.

You will have to ask people that know better between these two receivers.

Sorry,

Bob
 
R

rnatalli

Audioholic Ninja
The HK is a great receiver provided you update the firmware as the initial release was incredibly buggy. I like the 254 over everything else under $400. It looks great, has a great amp section, great GUI, and all the features a typical consumer needs. Do not be put off by the lower power ratings of the HK. HK is very conservative and rates their receivers honestly. The 254 will easily outcrank many of the so-called 100wpc receivers.

I think the new Pioneer 919 is particularly interesting. My only reservation is that its predecessor (918) came up short on the test bench putting out something like 35-40wpc into 5 channels. The 919 is lighter suggesting the amp has been scaled back even more. However, it should still do fine so long as you aren't hooking up low-impedance and/or inefficient speakers to it.

There are quite a few deals out there on last year Onkyo models like the 705. Onkyo receivers do well on the test bench. If they're stating 100wpc it probably means anywhere from 80-110wpc.
 
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lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
Does the 4002 decode the new high res. audio codecs?
Most players decode them, but honestly they don't make a hug difference in sound quality.


Does the 4002 have Audyssey MultEQ room correction?
AS is nice, but a pain to run plus the 606 version is 2EQ not MultiEQ
The 4002 has MRAC which at this budget level is good enough.


Does the 4002 have preouts for all channels?
Yes the 606 doesn't.

How many HDMI inputs does the 4002 have?
3

Which version of HDMI does the 4002 have?
It will repeat 7.1 LPCM and pass 1080p signals just fine.

Do you know the price of the 4002 in Canada?
no but in US dollars it goes for 270 from accessories4less.

Does the 4002 have separate x-overs for all speakers?

X-overs can be several things But generally speaking they are composed of high pass filters and low pass filters. I know of no reasonably priced receiver that has what I would define as a separate x-overs.

They will all high pass the mains and low pass the sub and that's it. For a good crossover you'll need to get a DCX 2496 and some external amps.

You can do this with the Marantz 4002. You can't do it with the Onkyo 606. For an audiophile I suggest the former. For a person only interested in a quick easy solution I suggest the later.

However the 4002 is available for much cheaper.

Regards,

Bob
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
The HK is a great receiver provided you update the firmware as the initial release was incredibly buggy. I like the 254 over everything else under $400. It looks great, has a great amp section, great GUI, and all the features a typical consumer needs. Do not be put off by the lower power ratings of the HK. HK is very conservative and rates their receivers honestly. The 254 will easily outcrank many of the so-called 100wpc receivers.

There are quite a few deals out there on last year Onkyo models like the 705. Onkyo receivers do well on the test bench. If they're stating 100wpc it probably means anywhere from 80-110wpc.
I must state that I'm impressed with the sound of the HK, but not the OSD or the bugs. I'm buying optical cables and ditching the attempts to use HDMI with Dolby Digital. Personally I don't care about the new formats my receiver sounds better with less work and is much cheaper. Formats or not.

Don't chase the new formats IMO.
 
J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
I'm doing 2.1 because I will have it in my apartment living room which does not have much space to put 5.1 or 7.1. I rather get a decent 2.1 instead of 5.1 but lower quality. Paradigm is too expensive for me, even KEF iQ7 was too expensive. That's why just I'm getting a pair of Definitive Technology Studio Monitor 450 that is on sale from US$658 to US$248 plus $50 shipping to my relative in Seattle.
My room setup would just be like the TV on the one end and the sofa on the other end right against the wall so if I have surrounds, they will be right beside your ears. LOL...
If I can spend more than $500 on speakers only, I'd rather get a floorstanders. I don't know if I'm doing a right way, I'm just starting this new expensive hobby couple months ago and researching about this and that.

That's what I'm battling about too. MatthewB, who is the owner of Def Tech speakers too, recommend Def Tech SM450 and he even would compare the mid and high freq output quality to B&W 800 series, assuming the low freq will be covered by the sub. I even torn with B&W 600 series so if it's comparable to B&W 800 series, it's a truly gem. I know that it's kinda silly to compare below $700 speakers to thousand dollars speakers but it might be true. In AV forums, some Def Tech SM450 owners also claim that they are impressed on how the speakers perform and compared them to Monitor Audio Gold series. I also understand that sound quality is very personal preference. Because we don't have Def Tech dealer in Vancouver, I think I would give that speakers a try.

My simple and idiotic judgment against Def Tech SM450 is that for a bookshelf speaker that cost close to $700 and I think it's not British or European brand, it'd better be good and comparable to $1000s brand name speakers such as Paradigm or B&W. Also, since this is my first time buying a system, I want to test it if this is the right hobby for me. If it is and I'm thirsty even more, I'd get another pair of decent floorstanders and put my bookshelfs as surrounds. So for now, I want to get at least a decent bookshelf speakers and receiver that will give me the best sound quality from what I have, then I can step up further whenever I'm ready without replacing my receiver. So either 606 or 705 should be enough for me. Do you think 606 would be enough or still just go with 705? I'll try to call london drugs about the onkyos tomorrow.

What do you think?
I'm hoping to make my mind and purchase soon before the sale ends. I also can't wait to enjoy my newly renovated apartment with a nice HT system. LoL...
(If you have msn, I'd be great to add you on my msn so I can talk to you directly)
GomGom, after reading this post, may I ask you some questions?

1. Are you planning on a center speaker while living in your apt?

2. How long are you planning on living in this apartment?

I think you ought to save your money, and forget the brand spanking new HT receiver.

If you are in your apartment for at least a year longer, I'd look for nearly anything off the classifieds. Something for $50. Heck, even as new, Radio Shack has sold their Sherwood stereo receiver for $50-60 time to time (full msrp is $100). You can't get discrete LFE with a stereo receiver, but you can save in the meanwhile, and get the speakers you really want.

You see... IMO... nothing, and I mean nothing, is outdated faster than the HT audio processor. Not your display, disc player, speaker, amplifier, wiring, remote, nothing.

May I recommend Ascend 170 SE for about $350 a pair? Not the sexiest, a bit boxy looking in fact, but quite clear/neutral, with off axis response that seems to belie its price point.

oh, and momentarily forgot, but the AH store seems to have very good deals on the Usher 520s. Never heard them, but they've been on every short list for their price point value, as far as I have seen for the time I've been involved in this hobby.
 
G

GomGom

Audioholic
GomGom, after reading this post, may I ask you some questions?

1. Are you planning on a center speaker while living in your apt?
I don't plan to have a center but may upgrade in future. Does it make any difference if i do have or not, in term of receiver choice?
2. How long are you planning on living in this apartment?
I will be living in this apartment for more years as I'm still single and available. lol....:D
I think you ought to save your money, and forget the brand spanking new HT receiver.

If you are in your apartment for at least a year longer, I'd look for nearly anything off the classifieds. Something for $50. Heck, even as new, Radio Shack has sold their Sherwood stereo receiver for $50-60 time to time (full msrp is $100). You can't get discrete LFE with a stereo receiver, but you can save in the meanwhile, and get the speakers you really want.

You see... IMO... nothing, and I mean nothing, is outdated faster than the HT audio processor. Not your display, disc player, speaker, amplifier, wiring, remote, nothing.

May I recommend Ascend 170 SE for about $350 a pair? Not the sexiest, a bit boxy looking in fact, but quite clear/neutral, with off axis response that seems to belie its price point.

oh, and momentarily forgot, but the AH store seems to have very good deals on the Usher 520s. Never heard them, but they've been on every short list for their price point value, as far as I have seen for the time I've been involved in this hobby.
I just bought a pair of Def Tech StudioMonitor 450 from 6ave and I'm planning to run 2.1 only for now. What I need to get from the receiver is, HDMI inputs and output, enough power for my speakers, sound processing quality and the output quality that will drive my speakers.

Isiberian, do you think that Marantz 4002 is a better receiver than Onkyo 606 or Denon 1909? I don't mind buying a refurbished AVR as long as the price is right. The subwoofer that I'm getting is Acoustic Audio HD SUB12. It's not a well known brand but read many good reviews about them.
If I can get the same or even better AVR without paying more (brand A to brand B), I would get the cheaper one. But I don't want to get a $50 AVR as it might be just a s**t box.
 
J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
Welp, it seems you chose your speakers already, so if you can afford a $350 receiver, sure, ok. My point was that your money will go further with speakers, and the money spent there could benefit you for years to come. Your receiver choice WILL be outdated by the time you flesh out the surround system. So, IOW, your money spent there will not benefit you for years to come, and worse yet, you don't even get to benefit NOW.

Yes, choice of having center speaker CAN have impact on choice of receiver, because if there is no center speaker, then a stereo receiver can suffice, outside of missing discrete LFE.

You would be able to tell the quality differences between different levels of speakers, blindfolded. You probably could not between a $50 "s**t box and $350 receiver when playing back stereo material, with easy to drive speakers, at relatively moderate volumes in an apartment (say, 80 db at listening position). After all your choice of speakers are rated for 90 db/w.

My friend with the Ascend speakers is driving them with a seriously ancient piece of hardware, maybe JC Penny is my guess, I've no idea. It sounds great. Don't take me for someone who is pleased with anything. It is very far from the truth.

You've got a lot to learn about receivers' features. What exactly is HDMI going to get you, I mean, besides the handshake issues? Well, you're not going to benefit from lossless mch audio, because, hell, you're only going to have 2 speakers. Has it ever occured to you that optical/spdif gets you lossless 2.0?

"Sound processing"? Dude, where's my car? You have 2 speakers. DSP modes, matrixing, are wasted features on you.

"Output quality"? See, because the OTHER FEATURES are superceded so quickly, the "value" of older receivers drops like flies. I bet I could find a $50 receiver somewhere, used, that probably sold for $800 during its time. Electronics, even from several years ago, seem to be rather transparent even at wallet-friendly prices. Now, it won't have features that I would like, MAYBE, but those features are wasted on you for an indefinite amount of time. A bigger and much more profound impact can be had for free in your room. Put some sliders on your couch feet and get the hell off the back wall. That in itself will make a $50 s**t box "outperform"a $3000 receiver. No, I'm not exagerrating or lying.
 
Lordoftherings

Lordoftherings

Banned
Most players decode them, but honestly they don't make a hug difference in sound quality.


AS is nice, but a pain to run plus the 606 version is 2EQ not MultiEQ
The 4002 has MRAC which at this budget level is good enough.




Yes the 606 doesn't.


3


It will repeat 7.1 LPCM and pass 1080p signals just fine.


no but in US dollars it goes for 270 from accessories4less.




X-overs can be several things But generally speaking they are composed of high pass filters and low pass filters. I know of no reasonably priced receiver that has what I would define as a separate x-overs.

They will all high pass the mains and low pass the sub and that's it. For a good crossover you'll need to get a DCX 2496 and some external amps.

You can do this with the Marantz 4002. You can't do it with the Onkyo 606. For an audiophile I suggest the former. For a person only interested in a quick easy solution I suggest the later.

However the 4002 is available for much cheaper.
1. Doing the decoding in the receiver is preferable, better bass management than any blu-ray players. Plus blu-ray players with 7.1 multichannel analog outputs cost more money.

2. Running Audyssey is not harder than any other room calibration system.
And Marantz MRAC is in my opinion inferior to Audyssey MultEQ XT (705) or Audyssey 2EQ (606).

3. The 705 does have preamp outs for all channels.

4. The 606 have 4 HDMI inputs.

5. The HDMI version of the 606 is 1.3
Like I said in #1 answer, it is much preferable to do the decoding in the receiver instead of the player.

6. The price of the Marantz SR4002 in Canada is quite a bit more than in the USA.

7. Separate crossovers for all set of speakers is the general rule and the prefer choice of all audio people. It permits better configuration with your own speakers and your subwoofer(s). I'm talking different frequencies (50,60,70,80,90,100,120,150hz) for example, for each different set of speakers (center channel, front mains, side surrounds & rear surrounds, plus a separate LFE low pass filter for the LFE channel only).
On many Marantz receivers, you don't have that choice, it is a common x-over for all your speakers.
For Marantz to omit this feature is a retro application that doesn't cut it anymore in my book. Furthermore, for all Marantz receiver's models that include Audyssey MultEQ, to not be able to superimpose it over Dolby TrueHD & DTS-HD MA is a serious omission too.

I have a Marantz integrated amp in my 2-channel Stereo system (analog) and it sounds great.
In my Home Theater room, I use an Onkyo TX-SR876 and it rocks all the way to Heaven.
In my basement, I have an Onkyo TX-SR805 with an Emotiva XPA-3 coming soon.

And I also owned several receivers over the years (Denon, Yamaha, Pioneer, Marantz, Kenwood, Harman Kardon and more), and I still owned must of them. I love them all, but for the years 2007, 2008 and 2009, the Onkyos are the ones. For their specs, performance and power, features, ergonomics, build and price value (street), they are very hard to beat right now.

* Right now, the 705 is at #1, for value, features, power and overall performance.
The 606 is at #2, for the # of HDMI inputs (4 x version 1.3), Audyssey 2EQ, Dolby TrueHD & DTS-HD MA internal decoding and price value.

And the SR4002 is not in the running, because it does not decode the new high resolution audio codecs, for the reasons that I already mentioned. It might have a good sound from it's analog output, but it is not enough in this day and age. That's why I propose GomGom to look at the SR5003 instead.

One think that I learn over the years (over 40), is to go with the most up-to-date receiver, or you will regret it very fast. It happens to me way too often, just because I wanted to save money. In the end, I end up spending more money with constant upgrades. So I learn that it is best to spend a little bit more at the beginning from enjoying your purchase for a longer period of time, in particular with receivers.

That's my learned and paid experience.

Regards,

Bob
 
Last edited:
Lordoftherings

Lordoftherings

Banned
For the OP

Hi GomGom,

How could you choose such a user name? :rolleyes:

Anyway, no disrespect, I'm only kidding; but take your time to pick the right receiver for your own needs, with your prefer features, with your own speakers, in your own room, and for the number of years and upgrades that you are planning. Well, with your budget too, which is about $500 cdn, if I remember well.

In my post just above, I mentioned few tips that might be informative and helpful.

The other members have also some interesting suggestions.

You have to balance yourself the pros & cons of all aspects for your own situation. Like, how long do you intend to live with only a 2.1 setup?
Do you like your Music & Movies loud? Etc...
Anyway, I think I said it best in my prior post just above this one.
From there you should be able to decide what's best for you, and for you only.

Bests,

Bob
 
G

GomGom

Audioholic
You have to balance yourself the pros & cons of all aspects for your own situation. Like, how long do you intend to live with only a 2.1 setup?
Well, that's what I would run for now but I will upgrade it to 5.1 and 7.1 eventually. The variable that I don't know now is when I will upgrade it.
Do you like your Music & Movies loud? Etc...
Oh yes, I definitely love loud but not noisy music (I listen to Jazz and Funk Jazz) also loud music. My neighbour may hate me but I only live once. lol....

Thanks a lot everyone, I learned a lot, i mean really really a lot, from this forum. So the Marantz 5002 still inferior to Onkyo 606 in term of audio processing. To jump up to 5003, it's out of my budget so the #1 candidate right now is 606. Too bad AC4L sold out of Denon 1909 coz by comparison and reviews, 1909 is better than 606.
 

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