Yamaha A-S801 Integrated Amp unites analog and digital audio

[onyx cat]

I am using 14 g speaker wire that I got with banna plugs on both ends , on the streamer I am using a optical cabal that I got from WalMart , could be I could use a better Op cabal , the CD is also a little distorted on the hi's and I also have a reg. RCA cabals hooked into the amp as well from the TV for the audio , so I can select between Op. and RCA , not much of a difference , so I may have speaker problems as well as streaming problems as well , thanks for your input on this , I will also try a coax cabal as well when I get one .. Bob

 

[lovinthehd]

If the 14g is adequate for the length and impedance load you're good (up to 40 ft for a 4 ohm load would be fine). If the optical cable functions it's okay. The change from analog to digital would just make a difference as to what dac is employed. Coax cable is not going to be any different than your optical cable either. If you find CDs a bit harsh, it could be the particular recording or it could be you're used to more rolled off highs compared to vinyl.

 

[onyx cat]

Thank you!! , yes , the speaker wire is only 10 ft long per speaker so the I square R loss should be almost 0 and Cap as well .A long time ago had all McIntosh stuff and also the McIntosh ML2C speakers , the speakers were a little on the dark side but very forgiving with old recordings , I guess I am just used to that but I must admit I love to hear all the drums as I play the drums , story is I guess the better the system the better the recording has to be , there is some vinyl out there that is a lot better than CD , but Hi res CD and blue ray CD is the way to go for the best sound , we are all in the same boat when it comes to the recording Eng. I guess .. Bob

 

[lovinthehd]

Another thought is room treatment/speaker positioning, that could be a solution, too.

 

[PENG]

I am using 14 g speaker wire that I got with banna plugs on both ends , on the streamer I am using a optical cabal that I got from WalMart , could be I could use a better Op cabal , the CD is also a little distorted on the hi's and I also have a reg. RCA cabals hooked into the amp as well from the TV for the audio , so I can select between Op. and RCA , not much of a difference , so I may have speaker problems as well as streaming problems as well , thanks for your input on this , I will also try a coax cabal as well when I get one .. Bob

Did you check the banana plugs? I know of some cheap gold plated ones that are prone to loose connections that are not obvious to the eyes. They were worse than the red/white ones that are typically packed with BR/DVD players.

If all connections are good then it would have to the source but then you said it was same with CD??

 

[kenwstr]

Seriously on the cables? Such nonsense.

Well if you look at the videos Audioholics have produced on this, you will see that the context of their comments is comparing good pro audio cables like Blue Jeans with say boutique cables like Van Den Hul for example. In that context I'd agree it's nonsense.

However, that isn't the context of my comments. Audioholics has also produced documentation on recommended cable gauges and length which suggest 14 to 10 AWG to be appropriate depending on length. They freely state that they prefer Blue Jeans 14 x 4 twisted cable for everything. This is about equivalent to 11 AWG I believe. There are a lot of people not going anywhere near that thick, which is the context of my comments.

I have been in PA and HiFi for over 30 years, heard and read copious amounts on this topic. There are tables that relate cable gauge and length to impedance and suggest this is all that matters. I thought that was true for a long time. However, I had some issues with certain systems and in desperation tried some different cables. The differences were immediately very obvious and no, it wasn’t poor connections either. So, I decided to try this in some other cases like 1m of 18 AWG for my EBTs which according to the tables should be fine but no it isn't. So, I swapped that out for 1m 14 AWG and it is noticeably more pleasant. With the PA system, upgrading gauge vastly improved clarity and tonality. Not talking a small difference here. I have also had experiences where it didn't seem to matter at all.

So, I have found that reality does not in all cases match with simple theories on this issue. I gave a reason above that seems he most consistent with my experience so far but of course it's another theory and may not be correct in all cases either. It's just that the cables don't matter view is not supportable as a blanket statement in my decades of experience, though there are cases that seem to support it with a certain range. There are also practical cases that do not support it. I am most definitely not defending the overprices boutique market here though. Rather I am defending the sensible use of reasonably priced industry accepted cable as Audoholics do as well.

Ken

 

[lovinthehd]

Well if you look at the videos Audioholics have produced on this, you will see that the context of their comments is comparing good pro audio cables like Blue Jeans with say boutique cables like Van Den Hul for example. In that context I'd agree it's nonsense.

However, that isn't the context of my comments. Audioholics has also produced documentation on recommended cable gauges and length which suggest 14 to 10 AWG to be appropriate depending on length. They freely state that they prefer Blue Jeans 14 x 4 twisted cable for everything. This is about equivalent to 11 AWG I believe. There are a lot of people not going anywhere near that thick, which is the context of my comments.

I have been in PA and HiFi for over 30 years, heard and read copious amounts on this topic. There are tables that relate cable gauge and length to impedance and suggest this is all that matters. I thought that was true for a long time. However, I had some issues with certain systems and in desperation tried some different cables. The differences were immediately very obvious and no, it wasn’t poor connections either. So, I decided to try this in some other cases like 1m of 18 AWG for my EBTs which according to the tables should be fine but no it isn't. So, I swapped that out for 1m 14 AWG and it is noticeably more pleasant. With the PA system, upgrading gauge vastly improved clarity and tonality. Not talking a small difference here. I have also had experiences where it didn't seem to matter at all.

So, I have found that reality does not in all cases match with simple theories on this issue. I gave a reason above that seems he most consistent with my experience so far but of course it's another theory and may not be correct in all cases either. It's just that the cables don't matter view is not supportable as a blanket statement in my decades of experience, though there are cases that seem to support it with a certain range. There are also practical cases that do not support it. I am most definitely not defending the overprices boutique market here though. Rather I am defending the sensible use of reasonably priced industry accepted cable as Audoholics do as well.

Ken

Am familiar with the AH articles on the subject. Gene does use mostly regular old 10g speaker cables, but does have his fancy Kimber twisted cables, too.

Maybe if the 90% were heavily weighted towards speakers rather than cables instead of 90% of the time being speakers and cables....as my comment was more about the cable side; cables are generally not an issue at all let alone 90% of the time. I also didn't say cables didn't matter, you need them or no audio! . If they are of sufficient gauge/construction generally that's all you need worry about for speaker cables. Your anecdote about 1m of 18g vs 14g is not very believable, tho I have no idea what an EBT is nor do you describe any meaningful comparison. Whether you cancel some interference with twisted cable, that's a pretty rare instance....but using doubled up pairs of cables to increase effective gauge may be useful. My grandfather was an EE/pro sound guy and set me on the speaker wire path long ago, like 45 years ago. YMMV.

 

[Pogre]

 

[kenwstr]

Am familiar with the AH articles on the subject. Gene does use mostly regular old 10g speaker cables, but does have his fancy Kimber twisted cables, too.

Maybe if the 90% were heavily weighted towards speakers rather than cables instead of 90% of the time being speakers and cables....as my comment was more about the cable side; cables are generally not an issue at all let alone 90% of the time. I also didn't say cables didn't matter, you need them or no audio! . If they are of sufficient gauge/construction generally that's all you need worry about for speaker cables. Your anecdote about 1m of 18g vs 14g is not very believable, tho I have no idea what an EBT is nor do you describe any meaningful comparison. Whether you cancel some interference with twisted cable, that's a pretty rare instance....but using doubled up pairs of cables to increase effective gauge may be useful. My grandfather was an EE/pro sound guy and set me on the speaker wire path long ago, like 45 years ago. YMMV.

Yes. I know Gene has used 10 AWG pretty extensively though in a recent video he said he prefers 14 x 4 now.

From what I have read, twisted speaker cable reduces one of the 3 cable properties pertinent to low pass frequency to below that obtained with parallel conductors. This allows for longer cable runs without attenuating the top end, it is not essentially about interference. Maybe that’s more relevant to auditorium systems.

EBT is ProAc Extended Bass Tablet. It's oldish but well regarded for the small size and I wanted to keep the price down for the spare room system. They are a slightly taller cabinet than the normal tablets, so lower bass frequency cut-off. Similar performance otherwise. I don't have a spec sheet for them but they measure 6 ohm DC. These are powered with a Pioneer A-400 int-amp, about 60W from memory.

In my experience, apart from enthusiasts, most other people are using woefully inadequate cable gauges in Australia. It makes no sense to me nobbling a system over a few buck’s worth of copper.

 

[Pip_Boy72]

Noob here, Thinking of buying this Yamaha AS801 amp and connecting it to my Yamaha RXV665. In your review you said DO NOT switch the impedance switch at all, in fact put black tape over it. Ok my question is: My floor speakers (R/L Channels) are Cerwin Vega AT-12's, they are 4 Ohm speakers (Tweets, Mid's and 12' Subwoofers) Why do I not switch the amp to 4 Ohm?
Thanks.

 

[PENG]

Noob here, Thinking of buying this Yamaha AS801 amp and connecting it to my Yamaha RXV665. In your review you said DO NOT switch the impedance switch at all, in fact put black tape over it. Ok my question is: My floor speakers (R/L Channels) are Cerwin Vega AT-12's, they are 4 Ohm speakers (Tweets, Mid's and 12' Subwoofers) Why do I not switch the amp to 4 Ohm?
Thanks.

If you select 4 ohm, the output limit will drop a lot. It is there to comply with certain regulatory requirements.
By the way, the RX-V665 has pre outs, so you will get much more value going with a low cost power amplifier than connecting to an integrated amp, especially one (any of the A-S integrated below the A-S1100) that shares parts and circuitry with AVRs.

 

[ski2xblack]

Why do I not switch the amp to 4 Ohm?
Thanks.

Because, as explained in the article, doing so will limit the supply rails, which will result in clipping at lower levels than with the switch in the high impedance setting. Vice versa, with the switch in the high impedance setting, and the supply capable of full power, it generates more heat, particularly into lower impedance loads.

The impedance switch is there to protect the amp from overheating, not to match with, or somehow protect your speakers. The low setting, with earlier onset of clipping actually puts your speakers at greater risk.

 

[Pip_Boy72]

If you select 4 ohm, the output limit will drop a lot. It is there to comply with certain regulatory requirements.
By the way, the RX-V665 has pre outs, so you will get much more value going with a low cost power amplifier than connecting to an integrated amp, especially one (any of the A-S integrated below the A-S1100) that shares parts and circuitry with AVRs.

Understood. What amp do you recommend then to pair with the RX-V665?

 

[lovinthehd]

@Pip_Boy72 for what distance from the speakers and to what spl levels? Have you tried one of these? http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

 

[PENG]

Understood. What amp do you recommend then to pair with the RX-V665?

What is your budget? Sorry to ask, but there are many good amps that can work with that AVR.

 

[Pip_Boy72]

What is your budget? Sorry to ask, but there are many good amps that can work with that AVR.

Budget is $1500.00

 

[PENG]

Budget is $1500.00

Sorry, forgot to ask the most important question, what is your power requirement. If you don't know, use an online calculator such as the following:

Peak SPL Calculator (hometheaterengineering.com)

 

[Pip_Boy72]

Sorry, forgot to ask the most important question, what is your power requirement. If you don't know, use an online calculator such as the following:

Peak SPL Calculator (hometheaterengineering.com)

The vegas are rated at 200 w @ 4 ohms

 

[lovinthehd]

The max wattage rating isn't all that meaningful. More often an indication of where damage may start to occur.

How loud do you actually listen, though? What distance are you from the speakers? Try and use the calculator....I saw a listing of your speaker's sensitivity at 97dB; it didn't really specify the basis of that spec, so deduct 3dB using the calculator to be safe.

 

[PENG]

The vegas are rated at 200 w @ 4 ohms

I mean your actual estimated power requirement based on the loudest sound pressure level you listen to, the distance from your speakers and the sensitive of your speakers.

If you don't want to find out that's okay and in that case just get the most powerful amp you can get for you budget. So for two channel amps, I can think of the following budget oriented power amplifiers:

Monolith 200 WX2
Outlaw M2220 monoblock X 2

Monolith by Monoprice 2x200 Watts Per Channel Two Channel Home Theater Stereo Power Amplifier with XLR Inputs - Monoprice.com

These are real separate power amplifiers.

Edit: Forget the above, the XLS2002 that HD suggested is a better value. Or the XLS 1502