rebulx

rebulx

Junior Audioholic
Wow, fantastic reply's guys. Thank you for all the feedback, even if some post's actually pose more questions then answers.... But i have my answer for now! I'm going for XLR's! thank you!
 
L

Leemix

Audioholic Chief
yes, that’s what I meant. Xlr for a 1-5’ run won’t achieve any better fidelity on these preamps. Gene also tested 7705 and 7706 and found the xlr had more distortion or issues then rca ic on marantz 8015. So I’d just use rca if your gear is close in same rack. Now if you have a sub across the room I’d use xlr, but again these preamps don’t use an actual fully balanced xlr. It’s more like a xlr to rca ic that you can buy from Monoprice.
No its not, Marantz give the proper higher voltage out of their balanced connections, you dont get that with just an RCA to XLR extension. Its likly the other pre-pros do the same.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Timforhifi

Timforhifi

Audioholic
The marantz processors have no audible improvement over their avrs. The xlr balanced connection tested worse then the standard unbalanced rca. So..... yeah I agree with the higher voltage, but the marantz come with issues at this higher voltage.
 
L

Leemix

Audioholic Chief
The marantz processors have no audible improvement over their avrs. The xlr balanced connection tested worse then the standard unbalanced rca. So..... yeah I agree with the higher voltage, but the marantz come with issues at this higher voltage.
Thats what the ASR measurements show, doesnt worry me as i use an external dac that measures even worse :)
And sounds wonderful on all those tracks that arent top quality recording and mastering. (Which would be 99% of music)

Edit: fixed a typing error.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
rebulx

rebulx

Junior Audioholic
Are the XLR's balanced on the Yamaha 5200? I'm going to an Emotiva G3 5 ch and two Emotiva HC-1 mono blocks?
 
rebulx

rebulx

Junior Audioholic
And to be honest, I don't know the difference between balanced and unbalanced XLRs, so if someone could be kind enough to clue me in, I would really appreciate it.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
The typical xlr cable itself is suitable as a balanced interconnect, altho there can be variations in gear (pre-amps and amps) as to whether they're fully balanced/differential design or not.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Are the XLR's balanced on the Yamaha 5200? I'm going to an Emotiva G3 5 ch and two Emotiva HC-1 mono blocks?
Like most expensive Pre-pros out there, the CX-A5200 has Balanced outputs, but it is not FULLY BALANCED FROM INPUT TO OUTPUT.

Most amps and pre-pros are not fully balanced from input to output.

But you won’t hear any difference whether it is unbalanced, balanced, or fully balanced.

After I owned the $7500 Denon AVP-A1HD pre-pro, which is one of the VERY VERY few pre-pros that is truly fully balanced from Input to Output, I will say this about fully balanced: I don’t give a rat’s a$$ about it. :D

What I do care about is that the pre-pro sounds great, has less heat, is reliable, easy for me to use.
 
rebulx

rebulx

Junior Audioholic
Thanks for the video mikado, that broke it down... had to watch it twice, lol, but I feel like I just downloaded information into my brain, like from the Matrix! Good stuff. I just need to learn how to fly a helicopter now, lol.

What are your thoughts on someone wiring all speakers with XLR, plus one sub RCA, and another using Emotiva's wireless sub adapter. Love some input here.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Thanks for the video mikado, that broke it down... had to watch it twice, lol, but I feel like I just downloaded information into my brain, like from the Matrix! Good stuff. I just need to learn how to fly a helicopter now, lol.

What are your thoughts on someone wiring all speakers with XLR, plus one sub RCA, and another using Emotiva's wireless sub adapter. Love some input here.
You have active speakers that use xlr?
 
S

Speedskater

Audioholic Chief
And to be honest, I don't know the difference between balanced and unbalanced XLRs, so if someone could be kind enough to clue me in, I would really appreciate it.
While 1/4 inch TRS interconnect systems are sometimes unbalanced and in semi-pro equipment wired in strange ways.
It's doubtful that any hi-fi product would have unbalanced XLR chassis connectors.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Overlord
While 1/4 inch TRS interconnect systems are sometimes unbalanced and in semi-pro equipment wired in strange ways.
It's doubtful that any hi-fi product would have unbalanced XLR chassis connectors.
TS plugs would be unbalanced- TRS is used for balanced. Or, more recently made equipment may have Neutrik jacks that will accept XLR OR TRS/TS plugs.

There's a lot of consumer HiFi that has XLR connectors, but that doesn't mean the input or output are balanced, low impedance and that was the original application for XLR. If it's not differential output/input and using the standards for it, there's almost nothing gained (no pun intended) by using it in a consumer application.

Pro gear uses a different signal level and that's the main reason pro amps don't always work well with consumer AVRs, preamps, etc. The other main reason they don't always work well is that the users don't understand that fact. All things considered, there's no reason short (less than 15') unbalanced connections can't sound and reject noise as well as XLR hardware. In fact, if the equipment has been bonded and properly grounded in the same rack, there's no need for shielding unbalanced connections- it certainly eliminates ground loops. A lot of pro gear doesn't use XLR, RCA or TRS plugs at all-they often use a three wire connection called 'Phoenix' or 'Euro' connectors and it works as well as anything- the wires are stripped and screwed down. Older equipment had three screws for the terminals- it all worked fine.

There's no reason to think XLR is 'better' when moving the RCA cables allows noise to enter- the reason it allowed noise is because they weren't seated properly or they have a problem, not because they're worse.
 
rebulx

rebulx

Junior Audioholic
While 1/4 inch TRS interconnect systems are sometimes unbalanced and in semi-pro equipment wired in strange ways.
It's doubtful that any hi-fi product would have unbalanced XLR chassis connectors.
would you consider a yamaha CX-5200 a h-fi system?
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
no, my speakers are passive, except for the subs. The surrounds are pushed by an emotiva G3 5ch and fronts have two mono blocks.
What would xlr have to do with those connections? Maybe between pre-amp and amp.....but not to speakers. Now if you want to get better speaker connectors in play then you could install perhaps speakon connectors on your speakers.....
 
Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Ninja
For speakers, SpeakOn connectors make the most secure connections. They are used in the pro audio industry in big venue installations and by musicians.

Many years ago, I had problems with speaker cables getting disconnected from my AVR over time, when using banana plugs. I switched to SpeakOn and no more problems since.
 
S

sterling shoote

Audioholic Field Marshall
I have heard hum when XLR cables were used and the solution was to switch to unbalanced cables with RCA plugs and the pieces of equipment being connected were from the same company- they had been used at another place and the problem was caused by an electrician who neither knew why I had asked for the outlets to be wired in a particular way, nor did he care. For consumer equipment, which isn't always true balanced low impedance, it's a waste and totally unnecessary.

There's a way to eliminate noise by using cabling that's often referred to as 'quasi-balanced', which is a twisted pair of wires in the center, surrounded by insulation/dielectric and some kind of shielded. It's also called 'Shielded, Twisted Pair'. The reason it works is covered in the Rane papers under 'common mode noise rejection'.

It's not just a matter of converting the plugs or using an RCA on one end and wiring an XLR at the other- the input/output impedance and signal levels are different for unbalanced high impedance or balanced low impedance circuits and they don't work as planned when one of each is on the ends of the signal chain.

Using the mathematical concept of IFF- IF balanced, low impedance gear is used in the signal chain, it can work well and then, only if the grounding is correct. If the electrical service has grounding issues, it's sometimes possible to lift the ground connection at Pin 1, but this should only be done if the equipment has been designed to handle it. Lifting that connection can sometimes create a lethal problem.

Read these-




Recording with RCA on one end and XLR on the other end of cable is a disaster, always too hot.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Overlord
Recording with RCA on one end and XLR on the other end of cable is a disaster, always too hot.
The input and output levels and impedance must match- it's not just a matter of using two different connectors, but a lot of people are under the impression that it's as simple as that.
 

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